So the Saron - Op or not ?

OP.

Next question please.

what are you talking about, its clear that the message between my lines was "buff the sauron"

The enforcer is not quite as good as the saron at AI, and the saron has better burst at close range but the enforcers much higher dps at range more than makes up for it. They're both rediculously good weapons and there's pretty much no reason to use any other secondary for NC/VS.

Please let me know in what way is enforcer better @ range than the saron because higher dps does not count for s++t if you can't hit the extremely mobile target

Video a couple of posts above yours shows that you are completely wrong on the rof only good for armour point ( how many people does he spam kill ?)

Not easy to C4 something that NO-ONE CAN EVEN GET NEAR to, but in a base maybe you can lucky and drop from a height but then again most mag pilots know this and stay clear of built up areas and snipe4/spam/farm at leisure

If you got sniped from Saron on a 1km distance, god, the he deserved your kill!

QQ, his penix is longer than mine!!! You have the OHK Enforcer - deal with it! This is a ****** three faction game! The only way to get 100% balance is to give all three factions only NS Weapons

I don't know why all people want to solo anything that is engaging him? It is a ******* armored vehicle with a big ******* gun on top! YES, you WILL DIE by it! This game is made for killing each other!!!!!
Lay tankmines or C4 them, pull them rockets in their *****, pull tanks and shoot at them, only 2 engies can take them out with only 2-3 shot...

THIS IS NO EASYMODE KILL THE ENEMY GAME!!! YES YOU WILL GET KILLED BY SOME WEAPONS, BUT THATS NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE OP, THATS BECAUSE ALL OF THEM HAVE KILLING POTENTIAL - get it or play Solitaire

Well, this is something I can agree with!

What ? he managed to put a cross on a target and press a button so he deserved it ? lolol rubbish

An entire column is hardly any solo player, tankmines are a joke as their size is absolute idiocy, c4 can't get near saron killed most if not all infantry, mag burn off as soon as needed to repair no-one else can catch you or boost in harasser and repair from third seat as you go (sheez how stupid) and both engies dead in 2 seconds from saron snipe or even main gun but usually saron.

There is an easymode kill option - its called vanu

Move along you have nothing to add but trying to mislead people

BTW its THEIR pen.. ARE longer (plural not singular)

******* hell...

Enforcer
Muzzle Velocity: 300m/s

Saron
Muzzle Velocity: 300m/s

The projectile speed is exactly the same. Your chances of hitting a mobile target are exactly the same.

And don't you dare say bullet drop because at 600m, there is such a meager drop which is easily compensated for.

The saron is op vs infantry, but the enforcer outclasses the saron in av and can one shot infantry. Can we at least have a velocity advantage?

see

Straight up, Saron is a little OP. Jumped in a Mag with my VS alt and instantly went on an infantry/armor killstreak which lasted 45 minutes... Why use anything else? There is good reason why 80%+ VS Harassers and Mags i see use this gun (the other 20% prob just haven't unlocked it) Enforcer may be too, not sure yet as i haven't had a chance to use it but its rare i see a NC Tank without it, either.

But i think they are trying to make it more fun to be 2nd gunner in a tank, whilst also increasing the deadliness of them.
I am mostly fine with this idea, if not the execution, but by god TR better get something comparable and soon.
I feel redoing the NC/VS Secondaries to their new heightened state before the TR equivalent was ready wasn't a very good idea at all.
Give us a freakin' Chaingun that is fun and deadly!! Even the recent PTS change is still lame...

what popcorn are you eating?

I've checked the patch notes, you are right. Each shot does 700 splash damage compared to pre-nerf 1000.
This means Prowler does 1400 splash damage if both shots are fired compared to regular 1000 splash damage done by other tanks. Still 40% effective increase in splash damage makes the AI job easier. I haven't played much with Prowler so I'm not sure if it would be OP compared to other tanks if given similar AV secondary but I do think that Prowler should at least receive its pre-nerf splash damage, 1000 per shot but with same damage radius.

PS:I've said that projectile velocity and ROF increase from Anchor mode is another benefit along with increased splash damage, I didn't say however that it applied to secondary weapon.

I personally do not care if all of the VS weapons gets nerfed. I still does not change the fact that any weapon in a skilled players virtual hand is deadly.

And our Vanu @SS.....

...

Was wondering what the NC would cry about post ZOE, looks like it's the Saron.

Must be tough being NC, what with needing such large population imbalances *AND* constant nerf crys just to sometimes pull a win.

I like how you didn't mention the Vulcan which is terrible at anything but point blank range against ground targets. Lol you know what TR have to look forward to in the next Update right now for the Vulcan? A sound change, a magazine carrying capacity increase still less than the Kobalt, and a damage drop off nerf. Do you really want the Saron and Enforcer to be as bad as the Vulcan, because I'd bet money that you don't. Here let me show you what I mean (The following videos/tests, and his conclusions to those were made by Snib, an awesome TR player)

Snib made a little video comparison in the style of the Harasser AV secondary comparison that was posted in other thread, only versus the front of a Vanguard instead of a Sunderer (Sunderers have the strongest armour vs the Vulcan). I used all guns out of the box, entirely uncerted.

Harasser vid previously posted:

MBT secondaries at close range (30m)

This is a range that you'll never want to be in for a tank fight unless you mess up. At least in a Prowler, which, as the only MBT, has an ability which is only useful at long range. So we can't make use of lock down with the Vulcan, both are extremely situational.

Still, even in this unrealistic close range engagement, the Vulcan only comes in a close second behind the Enforcer: Now please remember that Snib tested all weapons vs a Vanguard, the most strongly armoured tank in the game. In an actual engagement the Enforcer will have to shoot at weaker targets and thus kill even faster. This is important to remember:

MBT secondaries at medium range (150m)

This is a range where you still don't want to be, at least not as an anchored Prowler, but which can happen.

Enforcer has same TTK at all ranges (and bullet drop is minimal), same goes for the Halberd, which come in first and second because of it. The Saron needs to be fired slower or the CoF gets too big and only achieved third place (Snib was thinking later I should have quickly double fired each time instead of slowly single firing and it should have caught up with the Halberd). The Vulcan takes a whooping 50 seconds but does get the job done.

The Vulcan is special insofar as it nearly runs out of ammo for a single kill at this range and is unable to kill another tank then. All other three guns can go on killing several more MBTs afterwards.

MBT secondaries at long range (300m)

The Vulcan was unable to kill anything at this range before running out of ammo. Not only does the cone of fire become huge that far out, but the weapon also only does fall-off damage. The other three weapons do full damage at any range and thus had the same TTK as in the medium range video (obviously). Wasn't worth making a separate video about.

MBT secondaries vs infantry

No separate video about it either, you've likely seen it already anyway. The Vulcan can actually kill the non-moving infantry in the VR room, at close range it takes about half a clip, at medium range you need several clips and a lot of luck, and forget about long range. The other three can kill infantry at all ranges with a single hit; apparently - as posted above - if you certed into NW4/5 or FA4/5 you can survive an Enforcer hit (at least in their current bugged states where the bonus applies to shields as well). The Saron is the most effective because of fastest time to target and fastest firing rate, and even if you miss you need only two hits on the ground near the target to kill it.

G30 Vulcan on The Test Server right now

Snib did the same 30m/150m test of the Vulcan currently on PST as I did for the release version:

Slightly faster than the Enforcer now at 30m but still slower than a Halberd at 150m (massively better than the current GU10 version though). Doubled ammo size means you can kill more than one tank, but still much less than the other two. Still mostly useless vs single infantry but should be fun opening up into a large group of them. The elevation angle is unchanged as well, so it's no AA gun either.

Might work for a Harasser if you got an ammo source nearby but Snib and many other TR tankers willstick with the Halberd, it's more versatile and better at range. TR seem to like the new sound of the Vulcan though.

Saron and Enforcer ML85 seem unchanged.

Saron/Enforcer>>>>>>>>>> Vulcan in terms of utility on the battlefield.

Conclusion

• If you're TR don't buy a Vulcan, get a Halberd.
• If you're VS and want to purely go AV vs heavy armour consider getting a Halberd as well. But you'd be missing out on a lot of easy infantry and Harasser/ATV kills which can be killed with a Halberd but not as effectively. Also you want the close range burst dps of the Saron. So get the Saron.
• If you're NC and you don't take the Enforcer ML85 please uninstall the game
• If you say the weapons are balanced you're trolling.

In regards to your question OP, the Saron should probably have little or no splash but it doesn't deserve the full blown nerf bat. The Enforcer is a little better than the Saron anyway so you should be talking about that before anything else .

Take those bias googles off and you would see that the enforcer is as strong, if not stronger than the HRB.

Both have splash
Both 1 shot

Saron has no drop (Enforcer has)

Enforcer has no recoil (Saron does)

Saron has massive CoF unless left to settle (Enforcer does not)

Enforcer has more rounds

Both are similar DPS

If you want the Saron nerfed, Expect the Enforcer to be nerfed along side it.

Both are pretty much identical in strength. I know, I HAVE both.

The ONLY faction who has the right to complain in this regard is the TR, and even then they have the marauder for AI.

P.S. I drew a picture for people like you.

Yeah its a shame Enforcer can't snipe Flashes and Harassers which are far away. However it can hit tanks and Sundies which is good enough for me.

You are right. It is possible to spam Saron at close range infantry but still lot of his "spam kills" were actually done by first shot. Still as far as medium to long range is concerned you have to wait for COF to recover and this is where Enforcer has slight advantage.

I do think both are balanced and have their pros and cons. I checked GU09 notes and I was amazed to see that Prowler didn't get any love except "Secondary gun models were adjusted to look more TR" lol