Skyguard Vs Liberator...

You do realize that the only purpose of the lib is to do A2G right? And the intended purpose of the tankbuster is to, umm well bust tanks.

Skyguard requires nearly zero skill to use effectively, and can create areas of complete denial such that air currently has no role in deciding large scale battles.

Libs should kill tanks because nothing else does.

During 96v96 battles there are far more tanks around than airplanes.

In fact at any battle over 48 per side there wont be any air at all, but tanks will kill anything that moves.

This is a combined arms game with the 3 different types of unit air armor and infantry each contributing to the battle.

Libs need to be able to kill those tanks. If you see a lib in the sky you should get on the horn and call in some ESF to take it out.

That was how it was intended to work. There was supposed to be synergy and the empire that utilized all 3 phases the best would win.

Now infantry and tankers have created a situation where they completely shut the other side out of the fight.

I think perhaps in game communication could have been made better. For example if you had a /who command that you could further do something like /who ESF and find the names of all of the ESF pilots in your empire on your continent and alert them to libs farming at small-scale fights.

Outfits should recruit pilots who give them ground support.

The idea was it was a strategy to build and equip the proper forces to win the battle. To change and adapt and do whats needed to win. Not just sit on the ground and shoot flak at things which everyone seems to do.

If every vehicle in the game didnt have some form of anti air, whether it be flak or walkers or basis or lock-ons or even AP rounds then i could see flak being stronger against libs.

Wanna beat a lib? Get 3 people. Get a sundy with dual walkers. Shoot the lib while third guy drives to avoid shots and repairs when needed. Thats 200 resources and 3 people to beat a machine that costs 450 and has 3 people. Or you could get 4 people and 2 walker sundies and completely shut down the air for 1km for 400 resources.

A Liberator still shouldn't be able to kill a designated AA-tank in 2-3 seconds ... No matter the situation, unless ofc the tank is almost dead.

Increase the Skyguards TOP-armor to 500Certs cost and 50% resist all. Also increase flak-velocity.

Nerf tankbuster, buff dalton/zephyr.

Skyguards doesn't need a buff. It's already very effective vs ESFs.

So basically you want me to sit at 600m daltoning down instead of risking my butt to tankbust and get a bit shorter TTK?

Tankbuster is fine though, there's literally no problem with it.

Zaphyr is kind of a joke by itself, it absolutely needs a bulldog at the back to complement the damage. The problem is the splash damage (max) is not that big, but mostly it caps at 450. So it's 3 shots MINIMUM to kill someone. So you can potentially kill 2 people. And that's assuming it's all within the max dmg blast radius. Sometime more, but it's extremely rare because players run around like chickens once they start getting bombed. And there's always people with flak armor.

The duster... it's "ok" for extremely low flying when you know there's one tiny area to bomb, and then you fly 10 meters above, unload and run. But the spread makes it ridicoulously bad as soon as you lift a bit too high, and then there's the issue of the velocity.... (100 m/s) like seriously, infantry runs faster than your freaking projectile. It's slower than the default rockets launchers.

Tankbuster vs Dalton is not just "a bit shorter TTK". If you want to sit at the sky ceiling and get pelted by flak then go for it. Insta-gibbing is not fun and rarely balanced. We need to promote more back and forth type of game play. Tankbuster needs to go, when was the last time you say a Lib carry a Vektor?

Once tankbuster is gone, we can properly balance the belly guns. Splash damage on all vehicles are a joke.

Should an AP MBT be able to kill an dedicated tank killing AP lightning in a few seconds, or a Vulcan Harraser? What about a LA with C4 or an Engineer with Tank mines instantly killing a lightning? You say no situation, yet there are plenty of situations where it happens in this game, because one player catches another completely unaware and is able to exploit that, just like the TB.

Many things kill vehicles in a matter of seconds and it isn't an issue and neither is it with the liberator. You seem to think a dedicated 250 cert Solo light AA vehicle shouldn't die to a dedicated tank killing weapon on a 350 cert/ 3 man vehicle in a few seconds, but it does and that is perfectly balanced, because once you bring in 1 or 2 more of those solo dedicated AA vehicles all of a sudden the situation changes and it is the liberator that is destroyed in a few seconds and there is your balance.

What is the leading cause of death to ground vehicles? Actually what are the top 20 leading cause of deaths of ground vehicles?

No where is the Tank buster listed as the top 20 leading cause of death on any ground vehicle. Even with all it's killing potential it only averages about 5 vehicle kills per hour. Please show me where this weapon is OP in comparison to other weapons in this game. Yes, it can catch an unaware ground vehicle and put a real hurt on them, but even with all that power it is a non issue, because it simply is not making that many kills.

Show me the numbers? For all the potential the Tank Buster has, please show me where that potential is actually being utilized in game and how it is surpassing other vehicles performances....

I made no such claim, you're on a tangent.

And what's the Skyguard meant to do ?

Compared to the lib that just hovers at the top of the skybox and launches death. Why don't you try pulling Skyguard and not only see how "easy" it is, but also how fun it is, or how much the game rewards. Your main source of points is "AA damage" and kill assists. Where as liberators and ESF rack up the kills. Why does Skyguard get less reward for having a thankless job protecting their platoons from flying narcissists?

Apart from tanks, infantry and pretty much everything else. Still by this logic, Skyguards should kill Libs. Because nothing else does.

So what?

Apart from Liberators, sundies, and aircraft.

Except if you're in a Lib, where you can fight air and ground with equal ease.

And why shouldn't Skyguard be able to? That's their sole job.

So by your own logic Libs need to be nerfed.

Now infantry and tankers have created a situation where they completely shut the other side out of the fight.

Who gives a sh*t?

And this helps with Libs how?

You mean, your idea, that exists solely in your head as justification for OPair.

All of this AA sucks. In fact, all AA sucks. Why is this justification for a dedicated AA tank sucking at AA?

Why should I need to get to ten people to swat away a liberator team who has a 75:1 K/D ratio? Why shouldn't it be a little harder for the flying tank to survive, just a little bit harder.

Keep the Skyguard as weak as it is against heavy ground vehicles, but give players tha choice to invest heavily
into the Top-armor and possibly even upgrade the amo with cert to increase the projectile speed using some form
of Cert-points into barrel-change.

Toparmor Cert cost - 500 to buy with 25% resist all. Then 2 stages with 250 Cost / +12.5% each , a total of 1000Cert for 50% resist all.
Then a barrel-mod - 500Certs to change to a higher velocity barrel for the projectiles, does not inflict penalty on accuracy.
30% faster projectiles (like the prowlers lockdown).

This would give it a total of 2500 Cert if a player wants to gear up a dedicated AA-platform.

What if you don't buff its damage to aircraft, but buff its survivability to aircraft? Maybe give it a trophy system, or point defense laser that neutralizes a percentage of attacks from the air. Or just, hell, buff the top armor upgrade damage resist.

Cert is not a balance factor. If you want to use it as a balance factor, then make that top armor cost 10 000 certs. Because that's not even half of what you need for a liberator.

And no.

Sadly, top armor would honestly not change much. The problem isn't the top armor, it's simple dumbity (you know the word I mean). They present their rears to aircrafts. Just earlier, I made a new TR char. I went in this guy's tank and warned him a lib was going to come from the back. He had been doing the same thing about 8 times now, every time killing an MBT (at the end of the bridge between regent rock and scarred mesa). He was flying low, coming from the back and 1 clipping a tank. Then leaving to repair. But since nobody looked back, or simply presented their flanks instead of their backs to him, they kept getting killed. Telling them to turn around changed nothing(including using a mic)... He was an easy kill too.

That's what kills lightnings also. They simply don't watch around, or present their behinds. It's not about top armor.

But all in all, skyguards don't need a buff. In fact, I'd say they are a tiny bit too strong right now.

flawed logic. Lib's main purpose is A2G but doesn't mean it should be OP in A2G.

A Lib with Tankbuster will melt a Skyguard from any direction. I've been there myself.
While it takes my Skyguard roughly 20 seconds to kill the Liberator, he kills me in 3-5 seconds.

Increase Skyguards Top armor to 25+17.5+17.5% resist to all Air weaponry.

It takes a Liberator 2-3 seconds to kill a fully certed skyguard.. while it takes a Skyguard roughly 20 seconds to kill a lib.

A Liberator with Tankbuster should not be able to melt a dedicated AA-tank in 3 seconds, no matter from which direction.

QQ QQ alright, stop necroing threads.

Liberator is already bad right now because of the changes.

An Airunit that kills specialized AA-units in 2-3 seconds is not bad... its BROKEN.

No it isn't...

#1 The Tank buster for all it's power only kills on average 3 vehicles/hour, So yes it has great potential but in practice it really isn't killing that many ground vehicles. And it doesn't even register as a top 25 cause of death for a single ground vehicle in this game.

#2 The lightning is a solo vehicle, the liberator is a 2-3 man vehicle and costs more certs to pull.

#3 Ground vehicles out number Air vehicles by a factor of 4:1

The skyguard is more equivalent to an ESF, not the Liberator. In regards to the Liberator a single Skyguard can kill a Lib, but in practice it is more ideal to have 1 or 2 Skyguards and/or 1 or 2 other forms of ground based AA as a counter and the reason being is that there are so many more ground based vehicles and infantry then Air units. If any of them could directly counter an Air unit like the liberator on a 1 vs 1 basis in the 2-3 sec time frame, then no Air vehicles would exist in this game.

You want to vaporize a Liberator in 2-3 seconds then pull 2-3 Sky Guards or 2-3 Bursters or 6 G2A lock-on. The last two options can happen near instantly at any Infantry terminal or deployed Sunderer. It's not hard..

If the Skyguard driver is even remotely paying attention to their surrounding there is no reason a Liberator would be able to tank buster them. The trick is to use the "W" or "S" key on your keyboard. What those two keys do is move your vehicle forward or backwards and will allow you to move your lightning and the TB Lib will either under shoot you or over shoot you.

It's nanites to pull a vehicle, not certs.