[Vehicle] Skyguard even more nerfed aganst ESF

Just a simple test in the VR:
Shooting ESF with SG before last patch needed 35 bullets to wreck it. Now it needs 55.
On the other side, a Walker goes through like a hot knife through butter.

I want my money back for the Skyguard! Its now a piece of scrap metal!

Yes, skyguard should be AA! Give it higher flak damage. Direct damage can stay low. Oh wait: "No tank layout should be in disadvantage for [...]" Buff the skyguard DPS to be on par with Lightning HEAT!

How's it do against the Liberator with the new 50% armor against ground sources? Legit question.

You know, I think the ground wouldn't mind too much if AA was useful beyond telling aircraft to consider leaving after finishing their kills.
(Italics for non-serious)

It's laughable at best.

This all gets back to the relationship between skill and effectiveness. A weapon that spams automatic fire randomly with burst damage has to be less effective than a more skillful direct hit variety. It's a shame the lightning is where it is, but it's there for a reason. It's always needed a quad walker setup, or something like that, with a real damage falloff that lets it wreck in a defensive role and be a little less powerful in an offensive role. Direct hits in addition to flak on the Skyguard is a close range band aid, but its rng nature will still make it suck. Argue for a more skillful change for the Skyguard or just accept it for what it is.

I honestly don't understand the resistance/damage changes but I can say how it feels.

I have a dual-AA deployment shield Sunderer, Walker and Ranger - and was being constantly hassled by ESFs last night. I had two gunners and it literally took an age to actually kill one of them - they seem to be able to absorb a heck of a lot more so if they can zip away and repair, you'll be fighting them for a very long time.

Like I said I don't understand the changes but that's how it felt. I may be completely wrong. Oh and there seemed to be an awful lot more ESFs last night but that's probably my imagination...

(Haven't even tried the Skyguard yet)

I've tested the skyguard and ranger in VR and yes the ESF is now a lot more resistant to flak. Actually ESF is a lot more resistant to everything.

Remove Pyton L100 HEAT's splash damage and give it 85° gun elevation, then call it skyguard. Done.

Expecting 90% of the playerbase to shoot down ESF with AP guns is like expecting 90% of the playerbase to be able to hop in a Lib and hit ESF with a Dalton. It's just not good for the game for the primary vehicle for AA to have that high of a skill curve. It has to have a high velocity to deal with ESFs at Hornet range (450m), and any OHK weapon that isn't half luck against a competent pilot at that range would be insanely OP any closer. It has to be some sort of auto-cannon or multi-walker.

You'd asked for a skill based skyguard, I gave you one.
Also, I said HEAT, not AP : faster reload but no OHK.

I think devs should allow the skyguard to have both 40mm flak and 100mm anti-air gun so it could fight effectively at both range.

If flak has to be in the game, it should be in a much more accurate, higher velocity, lower dps, and much tighter burst range than the Skyguard. It would be a stepping stone towards a legit AA autocannon. Area effect weapons are alright, spammable area effect weapons aren't. I have the same problem with the lasher. Same reason I don't like unlimited rockets for HAs. Could you imagine if the engineer turret lobbed constant grenades?

If your idea of skill-based AA is a single tank shell every once and a while, then we've already got the Decimator, problem solved, for you at least. I hear the Prowler AP 1-shots ESF now..... That's kind of crazy considering it has 2 shots plus its lockdown bonus...

If you consider the Skyguard skillbased or not doesnt matter... it was even in a bad state before the patch against ESFs and even more against Libs.
I am and was alwas a good skilled Skyguard driver (other toons), but it was always a problem to score kills with it - now its pretty much impossible unless you get a lucky shot on an ESF already on fire. ESFs get all time of the world now to finish the job where it came for and get away with it.

Yep, the game is not everything about a single SG vs. a single ESF, but I demand from a balanced AA vehicle, that it gets a gun that makes serious damage on the counterpart in an area where it is designed for.

Personally I would prefer a quad walker solution over a flak version - but we dont even get that choice.... a wait, an ANT with a walker is even better AA-wise than a Skyguard. Problem solved. (How stupid is that, eh, devs? )

Still, I want my money back for the SG.

I used a skyguard last night, still kills aircraft just fine. If it brought instant death then no one could fly anyware useful.

I'd like to see it damage harassers more though.

A lot of n00bs who never played vehicles are trying them. Was pretty funny putting them in the dumpster. They'll be back infantry-side soon enough once they realize vehicles are still mostly pointless.

I said it before. The Skyguard needs a much, much, much, much higher alpha-damage which can dropoff steeply over distance. If a liberator comes within 100 meters of a dedicated AA platform it should get shredded in seconds. Libs coming under skyguard fire now will simply adjust course towards the skyguard and kill it.

The Skyguard isn't the threat to the liberator anymore, it's not squarely the other way around.

Agreed.
The problem with the SG has always been it has insane range, but ridiculous damage even at close range. Unless the pilot is very unskilled he will manage to fly away, use Fire Suppression and come back in a while. It's not a case it's the only weapon awarding deterrence xp. WTF I don't want to deter aircraft, I want to rip it to shreds.

The AA role is even less viable considered the Lightning can equip Engagement Radar but this is 100% countered by Stealth: it's like if you had nothing in the utility slot against big part of pilots.


Last but not least it's the less flexible weapon in the game: bad against infantry, useless against vehicles due to high bullet spread.
And the CAI is going to make it even worse.

Thank you OP, explains what I was seeing this arvo.

Libs that came within range were withdrawing quite fast but the ESF's were just tanking me and coming closer. I assumed some sort of connection, life, skill, L2P thing going on and just laughed!

Used skyguard yesterday on a Crossroads assault. We had about 8 skyguards and still not 100% able to kill all ESF's in the area. Some skilled libs got around some times, but the less aware ones ware evaporated in no time. But, as I said... we had ******* 8 skyguards.
Before the update 2~3 was enough to deny air space.

I couldn't find one to test the new Hornets on, but after gunning in a Lib I just felt sorry fr the guys, which is why I think they all left. You can just tank, and tank, and tank those shots thanks to the new belly armor, especially when combined with composite. The Skyguard really needs a rework, something direct hit with a damage falloff so it can actually deal some real defensive damage.

The problem is balancing SG versus Lib/Gal without being overkill to ESFs/Valks

I think the biggest problem with the Skyguard is being overlooked here...

It's projectile speed is WAY too slow. It should have more MG-like speed but it travels about as quickly as an AP round. This requires a massive lead on any moving target and significantly reduces the amount of time you can stay on-target given your terrain.

Damage doesn't need to go up. Accuracy doesn't need to go up. Projectile speed needs to increase.

This is why many people feel it's too inaccurate. When the rounds get near the target, they explode. If you're leading properly, the accuracy isn't all that much of a hindrance.

This is also why people think it's damage is too great up-close. When you're up-close, you don't need to lead nearly as much so more rounds are on-target.

At the risk of sounding like an @$$...Pro Tip: If you're not seeing explosions, you're not leading the target enough.

It just needs a slight armor penetration ability, which the ESF doesn't have so it wouldn't be affected.

It's all a harmony, you can't up the velocity without reducing something else. If flak has to stay, then I agree it needs a higher velocity, and I'd argue tighter spread but less burst radius. This would require a little skill to aim, where as now it's half rng, while leaving it easy to use for the average player.

But velocity isn't the real problem, it's balancing killing potential with area denial potential. Adding back in the ability for direct hits plus flak to what we already have would be a solution, but then there's still too much rng for my taste. I really think it needs to be a direct hit walker with Tankbuster level damage (only soft point) within 75m and walker+ damage out to 150 and beyond. That lets it engage ESF at their threat range (450 with Hornets) and wreck libs at tankbuster and Shredder optimal ranges. Flight ceiling Daltons would counter bad Skyguards, but a good skyguard should be able to move enough to avoid many of those.