I like the Sirius. I put it as my primary engineer weapon after I got Auraxium on Pulsar C and do not regret it. On LA I use Pulsar as primary, Pandora as secondary and Sirius as tertiary. If I am unsure what range I will be fighting at (for example a smaller tower fight) I use the Sirius. If I have an idea, I use the appropriate weapon. I bought it for my infiltrator, but use it on three classes. For medic I use the HV 45 and for HA I use the Orion.
As others have said, it's largely a personal preference sort of thing. It's also very much a faction related decision. Some of the most staunchly anti SMG folks in the thread are TR, and that's a position that makes sense for that faction. TR has probably the poorest SMG selection, and the best short to mid range carbines. So if you were a TR LA I would recommend passing on SMGs too. With the Vanu however, the lack of bullet drop really comes into play with the SMGs (especially if you like to use a suppresor). The Sirius is a far more versatile weapon than you would expect it to be. The pros of the SMG in this case being the larger magazine, .75 ADS movement multiplier, and retaining the ADS per shot CoF bloom while hip firing. (That last one is the thing that actually makes SMGs so much better than other primaries at hip firing. Normally hipfire bloom is double that of ADS, which limits how much use you can actually get out of an advanced laser on a short ranged carbine). On the down side you do give up a noticeable ammount of DPS, and have one more tier of damage degradation (short ranged carbines (aside from the Jag) drop three tiers, SMGs drop 4). That damage degradation kicks in much closer for the SMGs too. You also have lower projectile velocity (Though this one is kind of funny for the VS, the Serpent is only 20ms faster than the Sirius, and carbines suffer larger penalties in absolute terms for using a supressor. So, when suppressed, the Sirius might actually have a higher velocity than the Serpent.) and carbines gain an accuracy advantage when ADSing while not moving. Recoil will probably come down to preference, the Sirius has a fair bit of horizontal slop stock, but a forward grip does a lot to cut that (and other than firing while using the jets, an SMG without a laser is still a better hipfire weapon than a short range carbine with an ALS because of the per shot bloom factor). It doesn't really have any noticeable recoil beyond that though. Wheras the VX 6-7 has a considerable rightward pull, and after GU 8, a bit of horizontal randomness too. The Serpent is more manageable, but the left pull can be off putting. Forward grips can help here too, but they are perhaps a larger sacrifice, considering the lower ADS move speed of the carbines and poorer base hipfire effectiveness. Ultimately there is no right or wrong answer, you kind of have to just try for yourself and see what you think, given the fights you tend to find yourself in most often. But if you've got a lot of SC burning a hole in your pocket, or you can catch the Sirius on sale, it can be a fun toy to play around with, if nothing else. -Ag (sorry if that's a bit of a mess, I'm doing this on a tablet, and the battery is almost dead, so it's more of a rush job than I'd like. :/ )
That's a rush job? You write a response as wall-of-texty as I typically do. It's not just that I play TR though. SMGs fall short when compared to short range carbines across the board. The .75 ADS speed thing is only beneficial when ADSing, which isn't something you will do often with an SMG unless you like providing your opponents with a cooling breeze past 20m. The only advantage to be had by using an SMG (for any faction) is it's magazine size, and that's only for 3 of them. For TR, it's not much of an issue. For NC and VS, yeah I can see it being appealing. However the downsides (limited range, limited firepower, underdog in almost every fire fight) tend to outweigh the advantages. For CQC, shotguns are better. For short-medium ranges, short range carbines are just better. Every weapon you could theoretically use in the same situation is probably better. I'd use the Pulsar C over the Sirius myself. More range just gives you more options and lets you have better control over the fight. And control of the fight determines the victor every time.
it is still fun using the Cyclone. I dont feel outgunned when shooting down people with it. So it IS a personal thing. Either you like'em or you don't. You may be right in all your statements, but if I can play better with SMG I won't use a shotgun or a CQC carbine...
The Cyclone is a bit of an odd duck; it has the damage of a carbine with a faster rate of damage fall off, which is irrelevant at the ranges it is meant to be used for. The other factions don't have a weapon like this. So, I agree with what you're saying, but if I compare the Blitz to the NC carbines & shotguns, I'd go with a carbine or shotgun every time.
I know it's fun. I had a blast with both the Armistice and Hailstorm when they first came out. I had a blast with the Nighthawk when I first got it too. Trouble is I find that after learning how to use the Jaguar and Lynx, the SMGs just become worthless IMO. My play style progressed well beyond pure CQC/short range combat and even shotguns are less useful IMO. Short range weapons in general just hinder the LA advantages and force you to make more of an effort in order to gain control of the fight. Now I haven't had much time to play with the new drifters and nanoweave armor so CQC weapons might be better with that combination.
Using the Cyclone is like using a carbine in CQC, except it shoots faster than most NC carbines, has better hipfire and can equip an extended magazine. Headshotvictim and you are actually making similar points; like I wrote earlier, I would never recommend the Blitz above a carbine, but the Cyclone is an equivalent choice to the best CQC carbine.
Assuming you are only playing LA or Engineer. No. you should run, Shotgun>Medium-long carbine>and CQC carbine. SMG is only good for Infiltrators IMO, just because they have access to nothing else.
Which of those SMG's is the 167dmg one? The Blitz? Why would one not one a good hipfire acc high dmg gun like the Blitz? If I got an SMG, it would prolly be the Blitz. Cant the thing mount the ex-mag to give it like 35 rounds? I think on mine I would put a Suppressor, xmag and a x1 optic. Be a CQC killer.
The Cyclone is 25 rounds but has access to extended mag to give it 35 rounds. The Blitz is 50 rounds stock. The Cyclone has higher damage per bullet but shoots a little slower then the Blitz.
A little? Cyclone has a refire of 652, Blitz has a refire of 845... All in all, if you did the math they boil down to about the same performance. So really it makes no difference whether the it has high damage or not, TTK DPS and all that are still more or less the same. That 6m damage drop however is what has me thinking these guns are virtually useless for anything beyond 10-15m since by then they are losing so much damage they can't compete in strait fire fights and take too long to kill targets. The Blitz actually holds an advantage over carbines. It's 50 round magazine is actually useful compared to the Cyclone's 25/35 tops. The Cyclone actually matches the ACX for TTK at point blank ranges, which means the GD-7F/Serpent are once again the faster killers. The only key differences is hipfire accuracy, and the SMGs aren't so awesomely kickass at that to warrant sacrificing half of your potential just for that.
I agree. Any time I might consider an SMG i find a shotgun is just a better choice. Either I'm going to be in tree or some other nook sniping players while remaining hidden or I'm going to be all out point blank assaulting distracted people in a tower or some other busy location. Here are the weapons I've owned. Carbines: Trac-5 (starting carbine) T5 AMC (Ranged Carbine) Trac-5 S (adaptive Carbine) LC2 Lynx (Increased movement speed while scoped Carbine) SMG: PDW-16 Hailstorm Shotgun FA1 Barrage (Tight Cone of Fire shotgun) Pump Action Shotgun TAS- 16 Blackjack Of those, I only really find myself using the T5 AMC for it's precise fire from perches, the Trac-5S for it's good ability at medium-close range supported by an underbarrel grenade launcher, and the FA1 Barrage for its destructive ability in close quarters while having a surprizingly tight CoF/range when scoped. The rest of the weapons are just inferior to the 3 above for their roles.
A CQC carbine will outdamage a SMG. BUT, I'm personally a big fan of the Blitz (don't know the VS equivalent). The crazy hipfire accuracy means you rarely have to ADS and thus will take a lot less damage. This is something that you won't experience in the VR room. Just pretend it's counterstrike and always go for the head. Shotguns are for dogs.
The Cyclone is the only SMG worth using for me, I prefer to use the Artemis over the Eridani on my VS but the SOAS-20 vs Hailstorm is a tossup for me on TR (don't even mention Armistice)- the damage output is what I look at. Both the Cyclone and Artemis are completely quiet with a silencer while the rest are still loud and that's also a big deal for me. But for LA, I wouldn't even think twice about an SMG for LA, Jaguar, GD-23, Serpent and even Pulsar C are good choices. And now that C4 got a bit of a nerf against vehicles, it's not a bad idea to carry a Gauss Compact S, Trac5 S and Solstice SF with grenade launcher to finish tanks off with after 2 bricks.
C4 nerf isn't going in, Tekno. Still 2 bricks to kill a tank. Anyway, the GD-7F and both Vanu CQC carbines have long reload times (especially the GD-7F) and poor damage per mag compared to second-gen SMGs and TR carbines. Certainly the GD-7F and Serpent have the most raw, mag-dumping killing power, but the 2.7 second short reload on the GD-7F can be very annoying considering 30 round/143 damage mags aren't that great. Serpent and VX6-7 are a bit better with the reload. This is why the Cyclone and the second generation SMGs are rather nice. Their CQC damage may be only adequate (roughly on the same level as the Jaguar, but with more loss at range), but the low fire bloom means you can fire much longer bursts, more accurately when hipfiring. GD-7F has the worst per-shot cof bloom of any 143 damage gun, you really have to keep bursts short, be incredibly close, or ADS. Having 1.75 second short reload and a 35round/167 damage max on the Cyclone with exmags isn't terrible either. Probably the best first-generation SMG. Second gen SMGs are less different from one another. THAT SAID, on a Light Assault I either use a mid-long range carbine (Mercenary, Razor, Pulsar C) or, rarely, an autoshotgun/ UBGL-carrying carbine. LA can get high ground or sit in trees where a bit more range on your carbine is nice.
I'm of the opinion the 50 round SMGs are the superior CQC weapons. And they perform well enough at medium ranges. So, yes, they're a very valuable weapon to have in your arsenal.
