[Suggestion] Replace ZOE with jumpjets

HAHA, Found the video I was looking for that has a scene showing off the PS1 VS jump jet max in mass. It is at the 30 second mark.

Watching that Video gives me shivers if the max had jets. A new meaning of a max crash jumping over walls over the TR max with lockdown and shooting us in the back.. No no no to jets.

As that was in a controlled test server environment a lot of those would have gone down before getting to the wall, the rest would have been fragged on the wall. Not to mention most of those maxs likely lost half their armor in fall damage. In PS2 maxes are far less durable to small arms then their PS1 counter parts. In PS1 the TR MCG with standard ammo it took more then 100 rounds to down a max, in PS2 the old 143 damage MCG against a fully certed Kinetic armor max will still down the max in 70 rounds not counting head shots.

Also in PS1 a galaxy could only carry 2 maxs at a time, same for a sundy. In PS2 a single gal can carry 11 maxs, same for a sundy. Not to mention most of PS2 bases are open to air and heavy ground fire so being on a wall or some odd places would quickly be countered, except in a biolab. But it still seems maxs can still reach the roof above the teleporter by the SCU Shield building.

Not up to you.

Well in that case, why dont you suggest all maxes can fly with 10 C4's and you have a cloak to..

Or you may accept as many others have on the striker threads, that everyone has an opinion to help the game be balanced for all factions. I cant see the TR or NC wanting VS to have such a thing, so there is little point trying to push something when the other factions will strongly protest against and more so RadarX has said no to the idea.

The zoe needs a buff, i think most will agree but a radical change in game play, i just cant see that happening as SOE dont have the man power.

because zoe is a mediocre ability that is practically a lockdown without anchors. It just makes you glow, apparently increased movement speed doesnt work if it isnt accompanied by actual animations for the max to not make it look like its sliding everywhere and can thus strafe side to side to easily avoid damage and confuse people.

and the idea that it increases damage taken but hardly increases mobility or damage is really ******** as a vs only ability, nothing stops ZOE being a thing for all 3 maxes, why cant the TR overcharge their maxes or the NC?

basically it was an idea that felt very terrible in function and gameplay, sure the TR and NC complain that they get abilities with their own animations and functions that are pretty true to their faction from the first game, but we got something lesser then that.

so although zoe was used becauss it was all we have, i dont think anyone really wants it in the game, VS or other factions, it just was very lazy to slap that in.

We do we want jumpjets back, and i do believe they could easily be balanced to avoid all the fears you guys whine about.
I also stil think anchors should recieve a damage resistance buff for having to stay still and an accuracy buff, and NC need to be allowed to sprint with the shield up and have a slightly wider shield.

This is the problem, they were effectively impossible to properly balance in PS1 (which is the exact reason the Devs didn't bring them from PS1) and PS1 was a much easier game for them to be balanced in (much less scope for vertical combat in PS1 and MAXs were 1 weapon type per specilisation and none shared).

In PS2 it would just be an unending nightmare trying to balance Jump Jets on MAXs, never mind on only one factions MAXs.




The Devs I'm sure know that if they put MAX Jump Jets in for the VS, they'd spend the next 2 years doing nothing else, but trying to balance them (eating up endless Dev-time), before eventually having to remove them.

ZOE itself has shown this, PS1 has shown this, and when MAXs could easily get on Biolab rooves it was shown too...... it is just a cool idea that cannot work.

Thats is what i said, it wont ever get balanced, the devs don't have the time for it, so why are people going down this path when they should focus on realistic options they can put forward.

Just an idea of the top of my head, to keep inline with some faction traits,

Lockdown which does not increase ROF but you can A - D over 2 meters very quickly, so making the target very hard to hit. This is just off me top of my head and something that could be done quite easily from the Devs, nothing great, just an idea.

We need GOOD ideas implemented so the game can thrive or at least continue. Jump jets as many of us have already stated is a BAD idea. I can think of MANY places that I'd love to stick a squad of maxes ready to ruin everyone's gameplay, Indar and Hossin are ripe for it.

Leave the jump jets to the other class, let Light Assault have their signature party piece.

glorious.
i'd happily lose a weapon with a slight buff to the remaining weapon to get my JJ's back. ie 1 weapon at 125% effectiveness (just say its some gas and/or plasma from the JJ's funnelled into the weapon or something)
maybe even half the effectiveness of general suit upgrades too, you can carry 4 extra clips with a 2 armed max? you'd just get 2 for the JJ setup. half the nanite repair rate and resists etc.

You know, I'm not familiar with Planetside 1, when I've heard about MAX jumpjets, I expected a technology that would only get the MAX to fly very slowly, mostly vertically, in a fashion similar to the heaviest mechs with jumpjets on mechwarrior.

Then I look at the video and see this instead:

i hope thats the all new AA MAX mk2!

the max jumping only moved forward that quick if 'running'(weapons locked) relative ground speed transferred to forward 'flight', running also had a slower turn rate so mid air 180's not so easy and an accelerate/decelerate cyle. you could start 'running' from a 'dead stopped' jump but normal acceleration applied so you didn't get to go far before coming down.

as for the balance in PS1, if they were so OP why weren't the VS winning ALL the time?!.............. bases were 'inside' so JJ's suddenly not that useful where the scatmax/dual cycler excelled.
the team deathmatch bases we have atm do make them a bit OP without at least losing a weapon.

The problem in PS1 wasn't really that they were overpowered as such, but rather that their were unbalancable - that is no matter what the Devs did they were always too weak or too strong in some situation or another.

The problem in PS2 is that it is a game where Jump Jets would be VASTLY more of an advantage than PS1 (not only because of more vertical terrain and options, but also lower TTK).




If they were a constant thorn in the Devs side balance-wise in PS1 (which they said they were) they'd be a constant tree trunk through the groin in PS2!

MAX Jump Jets would actually be very difficult to balance in PS2 even if every faction had them, if just one faction had them, probably impossible to remotely balance them given what we saw with MAX mobility and ZOE.

Although it is not my problem, I'll throw around some idea's.
As the VS MAX seems to be focused on superior movement and technological advanced trickery, we can search for anything that will enhance that.
First is not buffing the MAX, but taking it away from the enemy.
The MAX will have a "Shockwave44" ability. This ability will send out a blast from the MAX that will stun people in the surroundings. Effectively, they have a concussion effect, with nearly none of the motion blur and only affecting the movement. The reversing of mouse movements will not be an effect, as sometimes happens with concussion grenades. The speed of looking around will be reduced. The effect should not range far, and lasts as long as a concussion grenade. The ability can only be used every 2 minutes (Certable to 1m30s). The main focus is to slow people down when they get too close too you. This would be good against LA, to break some opposing positions and anyone who gets some sort of drop and gets close. The ability does need restraint from the MAX, as it can easily hit it's teammates.
Continuing taking it away from people, is the "Rentago Freeze Ray". One of the arms has an extra device, which will be activated by pressing "F". A point directional beam will shoot out. Anyone who is hit, is slowed down slightly. When the beam is focused longer on a person, he will slow down more. The beam lasts 5 seconds. A second of the ray hitting a person will seriously slow him down. Weapons aren't active during the freeze beam. The effect lasts a minimum of 5 seconds, with every second you get hit adding an extra 2 seconds. The effect wears off gradually during the effect period.
The third ability is a stationary cloak. When you press "F", you will engage a cloak. I will take two seconds to disapear, giving an infiltrator that is standing visibility cloak. Crouching does not affect the visibility of the cloak. Any movement with the directional keys and the cloak is broken. The cloak lasts 10 seconds with one cert, and has a duration of 25 seconds on the last level. This can hide the true number of people at a position, goading an attack, or the ability to hide MAX units at some locations to easily flank and/or surprise attackers.

There you go. 3 options. One area of effect around the MAX, one precise directional beam that focuses on specific targets and one personal MAX buff that, while not directly buffing it's movement, there is a definite movement connection to be made.
Now you have 3 extra options to discuss about. Enjoy.

I didn't know maxes were considered unbalanced as a bad thing, I thought that was their intended goal, to give each factions strengths and weaknesses.

If it was really as OP as you are saying it was, they could have easily just shortened the jump height or something, but they left it how it was meaning there wasn't really an issue then.

NC had overshields allowing them to absorb 1 more rocket and a lot more abuse than the other factions, TR got lockdown which was hella good for defending, and the VS simply could get onto base walls, which as much as you guys keep trying to claim it is extremely broken, it really wasn't.

What people would do in PS1 was if a vehicle or aircraft tried to get you in the open, they'd fly straight up and shoot down at you in hopes to survive long enough to scare you off, who said they have to fly that high anyways?

but see, what we want is a jumpjet for a heavy armored suit, not nimble jetpacks like the light assault.

They were moving fast though in that video because they were engaged in sprint mode, which leaves their weapons locked and unable to be used until they go back to crawling speed, they needed momentum to "throw" themselves forward with the jumpjets, because if you just used them without moving you'd only go straight up and down basically, they were allowed to go REAL HIGH in planetside 1 as to get on tower roofs, that isn't necessary this time around.

Giving one side a flying MAX in PS2 isn't given factions strengths and weaknesses - it is like give one faction aircraft and not the other two!

As I said in PS1 I don't think they were exactly overpowered, they were useful (i.e. they were good at 0m dodging) and powerful (i.e. getting over walls and into buildings (but in PS1 most of the endgame fight was inside and in tunnels so that wasn't such an advantage as it would be in PS2) and gave unexpected advatages (VS AA MAX had a great ability to 1) get up high for an advantage, but then 2) could use JJs to then gain even more height to fire).

But by "unbalanceable" I can go straight to your suggestion, "just shortern the jump height" which either has no effect or affects so other issue (like being able to climb walls) and so the endless balance tweaks go on and on and on and on and on...... which is why the Devs wanted nothing to do with them (on MAXs) in PS2.

Again (again) I said it wasn't really overpowered in PS1 (it would be outrageously overpowered in PS2 however - this has already been proven with old ZOE and MAXs on rooves in biolabs), but that was down to PS1 design which was much different (again most of the end battle stuff being indoors in tunnels - the same reason tank and air spam wasn't dominant in PS1 like it can be in PS2).

But it was hard to balance in PS1, because it had direct uses like JJ in close combat for avoidance, indirect uses like climbing stuff to fire or flank and uses they didn't expect like using JJ to get extra AA ability.



In PS2 though it would just be a nightmare, no one would ever beat VS in a Biolab without having 2 or even 3:1 odds in their favour, Hossin would be a total nightmare too.

JJ for a MAX caught in the open in PS2 would probably be fine (they'd be at an advantage over NC and TR MAXs there, but not a game changing one), but in Biolabs, on Hossin, in many of the bigger and smaller bases it would be a HUGE onesided advantage......

just like only one side having LAs would be...... which is probably the best way to imagine it.

I understand what you are saying, and WHY it would be horrible, as everyone keeps saying they say all the MAXs in the game will simply be on roofs 24/7, but when and who decided they should be able to reach any roof in one jump? For all we know it could have an hour cool down and only reach the second floor to a structure, if that was the case, would you still scream it is unbalanced?

If they can only move through momentum based before they jump would it STILL be out maneuverable than a light assault?

If they can't fly for as long or as high will it still be out performing a light assault?

If their weapons are locked while they fly will they STILL BE A THREAT TO EVERYTHING WHILE THEY FLY?

Even though if they were to get on the roofs an hour later into a battle basically meaning it would be the opposing force's fault for simply giving them an hour to do so, WOULD IT REALLY BE OP?

Lets be real here, no one wants them to fly, no one wants them to be a light assault, that's why we haven't been saying EITHER OF THOSE TWO THINGS.

We never said they should have the energy or the cool down to fly up to the sky's limit, and then do it again in a few seconds time.

The whole argument you have is that you want all factions to be the same, and if not the same, it is OP.
The whole argument beyond that is that if a max is exactly like the light assault it would be OP, which is true, BUT
JUMPJETS =/= JETPACKS

They are to JUMP, and by god will they not control anything when they are in the air when they do, because it is not a jetpack.

You claim they will probably sit on the roofs and do what? snipe people? Do you honestly think will have the energy and cooldown to jump from roof to roof? That they won't have to get down because they can't be repaired, avoid dying and not getting revived, because they have unlimited ammo? That if they are on a roof suddenly all the woes of being shot at is gone, that there is no competition, no danger?

The reality is, a light assault would have a pretty easy time fighting them, who said they have to be on the same roof to shoot at them? Do you think a max is capable of absorbing limitless damage? One magazine is enough to get a max to less than half health, are you telling me they couldn't just shoot them till they die or flee? Or are light assaults meant to only be CQC C4 Fairies and they have no guns?

Is the idea of a max that can jump up to a balcony (second floor) so butt blasting to you that you have to continuously argue from a perspective that accounts for nothing we discuss?



You see that building? Yeah I know they can already get on its roof, but you know what keeps going over your head?
The idea that they can only reach that second floor on a single charge, you know what happens after that? It will be put on cooldown for WHO KNOWS how long, you know what they won't be doing?

http://4.bp.************/--iimuU8gYeU/ULTf31fR6-I/AAAAAAAABCU/yz7-K8UM7zE/s1600/tGTAMb+-+PlanetSide2+2012-11+-+inside+bio+dome+my+wallpaper++-GTAM.jpg
they won't be getting to the top of this tree in one go. What will he do? If he wants to climb higher? He has to stand there till it recharges to go higher! But there is a lack of space isn't there? He'll be a sitting duck won't he?

NO! Apparently a max is a light assault and he'll do whatever he god damn pleases headshot noscoping 360 turbo flying to the sky. If they are already this gamebreaking to you without JJ, maybe you should realize something, maybe you are just bad at this game?



They won't be jumping roof to roof because they can't fly forward fast or long enough. Having enough energy to reach a second floor with a combined effort of getting a sprinting jump doesn't mean they'll suddenly become infinitely more competitive than a light assault on its own playing field.

Guess whats really amazing about this?

See those other roofs? Why can't other people shoot at the maxes to get them off? Light assaults can easily go from roof to roof and up and down. How is a max suddenly just going to become anti light assault? With what gun are you claiming that is so accurate and deadly at medium range? What stops light assaults from still dropping C4 on them? Are you saying there is a flight limit right above a MAXs head? Because last I checked an light assault should still be able to go over them.



SO yes, a light assault's jetpack on a max is OP, too bad that is not what were discussing here, were talking about Jumpjets and how their limitations could make way for making VS more different to fight than being purple TR, which is what you basically want, Blue TR, Red TR, and Purple TR.

Yes, if they gave VS MAXs a 1 hour cool down on Jump Jets it would be fine, anything less than a 5 min cool down on Jump Jets and it likely wouldn't.

But a 5 min cool down would make them fairly useless, so we're again back to being unbalancable (ridculously OP or too weak - and sometime ridculous OP and too weak at the same time), which is why the Devs will never do it.

as it should be............ or whats the point in having ANY different weapons, or classes at all for that matter?

i did suggest the loss of a weapon

who said? tbh if it's the PS2 devs then i don't really believe them after they said they were making a sequel to planetside.................. and we got this that bears a visual resemblance only.

possibly, it's not like the game will ever be 'complete' or 'finished' though, so may as well, might learn something for a real PS sequel

Different doesn't and never should trump balance.

It would require at least that..... and then there'd be endless complaints about "only one weapon" - again unbalancable.

It was the reason they gave for not bringing them from PS1 in the first place, a few other things got the same treatment..... having said that Thumpers are supposedly coming now......

They are unlikely to throw in something just for the hell of it that is almost certainly going to cause them no end (in fact endless) balance problems, especially when they said that was why they didn't have them in, in the first place. I can't see how they can be balanced anymore than only give VS LAs could be balanced.