[Suggestion] Remove C4 from LA or buff tank HP

I don't realy think it's an issue ...

It's frustrating YES SURE ... but the c4 bricks at least aren't free ... have a bunch of lockon/phoenix heavies on the mountain (indar has some lovly areas for this) and your mbt is toast too ... and that option is for free.

c4 bricks at least cost some nanites and require that the LA gets close enough and survives long enough to drop 2 AND pull the trigger.

Honestly i think all launcher amo should cost at least 50nanites to resupply and shouldn't be able to get restocked from amo packs ... might not stop the spam but it certainly would help.

I wasn't in a zerg, I wasn't in a squad, I didn't just farm idiots. 70+ of the kills were BR100's and had to take out 119 vehicles with my stock lightning and a stock viper to get to those 679 Infantry and I only died 37 times total in that Alt on numerous battles. The point is that tanks can rule infantry even when surrounded by enemy tanks if you know the game well enough. So the guy whining about C4 deaths is simply not the best tank driver YET. I remember when my K/D was a horrendously bad .1 then .3 and 1 and 4:1 and 10:1 and now I can keep a 30:1 on several alts if K/D is the goal. I have two alts where all I do is hunt high KD BR 100 pilots and still can hold a lifetime 20:1 K/D
These maps have 100's if not 1000's of places where you have a huge advantage. The OP simply put himself in a bad spot where the C4 light assaults had the advantage.

I've had as many as 18 bounties on me at the same time.

http://ps2.fisu.pw/killboard/?name=fucwad&count=1000

I agree nothing makes kdr take off like fighting infantry with a tank. A lightning with stock c75 viper is already amazing.
Of course a minimum skill ia required.

Agreed. Not saying I'm great. Just saying you can setup a tank to kick butt on infantry easily. C4 guys are really at a disadvantage and the same with rocket launchers and maxes against tanks. They are easy kills once you learn the tactics.

In my outfit its the first tactic used

Thug life

Also

The idea that "Tanks need AV secondaries to fight other tanks" is really perpetuating isnt it?

If MBT used AI secondaries (Or the basilisk as awful as that is) then fighting other tanks wouldnt be nearly as bad

Were going to have to disagree on this

Infantry far more often than not will get rekt by tanks unless they fight it in numbers, sneak up on it, or C 4 fairy someone that isnt paying attention or hasnt learned an obvious lesson for an area theyre in

Nah. The advantage is too good to give up just because the enemy don't use it. AV secondary + AV primary fired from a good position create time to kill comparable to infantry vs. infantry.

In this situation it dint do OP any favors

Just so you know this was already done, by accident, but for about two weeks tanks weren't destroyed by 2 c4 by a bug after some patch.

Not much changed, tanks got bolder/ closer, people prioritized lightnings and sunderers more, oh and the forums COMPLETELY LOST THEIR MINDS.

Every forum thread became about the issue for the entire two weeks, it was as if Sony killed Santa Clause.

So they caved and fix the bug to the delight of C4 fairies everywhere, this is a game play mechanic that can only be changed before official release because the backlash after being established is TOO MUCH.

So it's better to just run proxy.

You are completely missing that there's more resources than just the in-game resources.
Namely: Time, effort, usefulness.

In the time it (should) take a C4 fairy to locate, move in undetected and destroy a tank that same tank can rack up a lot of kills and be a force to be reckoned with. In the meantime those infantry could barely do anything to the tank, even Heavies with their rocketlaunchers actually don't stand much chance unless the tank overextends.
So that tank can be mightily useful in all that time by killing infantry, suppressing them, preventing access to certain area's etc. The C4 fairy is basically doing nothing in all that time, nothing but trying to avoid enemy players, find a safe approach and pray that he doesn't have to repeat it again because he bumped into too many enemies/got spotted during the last stretch and got killed.

The only reason the effort for C4 fairies is low is because so many tankers don't do a single thing to defend themselves. Such as in the video from JohnGalt where they don't even react when the C4 fairy is spotted and fired upon. Tankers who do pay attention to their surroundings are nigh uncatchable with C4, increasing the time and thus resources needed to finally kill it.

So punishing infantry even more when bringing C4, or grenades or any other consumable would instantly copulate every class as with their death rate and the current price carrying consumables becomes extremely expensive. In fact, C4 would need to cost about 20 resources to even be profitable in normal gameplay, and that may be a high price already.

Tanks are powerful tools in the game, they could need a lot of updates, I like Mezinofs idea's to add things like an explosive-consuming ability, would be wonderful for clearing AT mines and ward off C4 attacks. You have stated here and in other threads the idea for a tank-mounted anti-infantry mine that players can set off to kill nearby infantry. You could even add things like an EMP attack that busts C4 (hope none is on you), clears nearby mines, destroys infantry shields and ability energy and could de-activate tank-abilities and HUD for a short time. That way you can knock a C4 fairy out of the sky and kill him easily, or you can find stealth-flashes or infiltrators, or you can de-activate a Vanguards shield, mess with a Magriders magburn ability or even prevent a prowler from exiting Anchor.
I also think that the top gun is fine as it is, but that the tank driver should get access to that co-axial for AI or a top-mounted gun for light AA or anti-C4 fairy purposes. This underlines the usefulness of tanks and the need for tank drivers to pay attention. I think you could add a freaking gattling canon of death with 360 degree elevation that kills every infantry with one hit and the amount of tank drivers getting killed by C4 fairies would barely drop because they will simply not find the C4 fairies on time with their current tunnel vision.
I've also stated before that tanks would simply need more lethality against infantry through other means, at the same time infantry needs a ton of non-lethal weapons that temporarily nerf vehicles in one way or another. Obscuring/reducing vision, destroying the HUD and deactivating the scopes, reducing maneuverability and/or speed, reducing turret traverse speed, sapping ability energy&temporarily preventing ability use, maybe more quirky things like creating a weapon-delay between clicking fire and the shell actually going,, forcing an enemy vehicle to fire his weapons randomly for a second or turning all IFF tags hostile and whatever else you can think off.

Anyway on topic: C4 is fine, Tank driver situational awareness is not fine. As I said before, How many freaking signals to you need before you actually look up from what you were doing and try to find that guy that's blowing up your tanks? If C4 fairies are so dangerous why don't more people equip a Kobalt or something? Not handy for 1v1's, but wouldn't a Kobalt Sunderer or a single MBT with a Kobalt be hailed as a hero in vehicle groups? Why doesn't anyone take one AI weapon with them in a group of tanks? One AI weapon is going to make a difference in the fact that you can better save yourself from that C4 fairy or a bunch of pop-up HA, making the sacrifice of some AV power more than worth it in the long run, or at least it they should be the way tank drivers froth at the mouth at the words "C4 Fairy"

Oh lord give this man atleast half of normal human brains. Remove C4 from light assaults? Let's remove cannons from MBT so they can drive around withount any problems of getting c4 on them ***. Seriously man if you have problem with c4 while you drive MBT than just don't spawn tank becouse you're bad. I can't remember last time me getting killed by c4 while I were driving MBT Probably 2 ages ago.
Deal with it you can't drive

This name makes me giggle.

Dude gets ******** when he can't sit on top of a sundy and shell fresh spawns, asks for LA nerf of all things.

Thank god this game is dying.

It's not the game that's the problem, bruh.

Well, at the very least, this thread has made me realize that I should utilize the ignore function more.

Sure, remove em from LA's so this becomes the new meta.
I could use a extra helping hand or two.

In all those factors, infantry always trump tanks anyhow.

Bringing up time is just silly when infantry can jump across the map. If my platoon decides to fight in another lane while I'm in a tank, you can bet that I won't be engaging many targets as I have to drive to another battle. Or even if we just won a base, I'm still rolling out while the infantry have already spawned at the next Sunderer down. It's ridiculous to say that tanks have any time advantage over infantry whatsoever. This is why we have Redeployside, and why tanks are pretty much completely ignored when it comes to actual play.

LAs, on the other hand, can teleport anywhere in seconds. And they don't have to track down tanks in the boonies... all the LA had to do in the linked video to get their first kill was pop out of the spawn, enter the nearest tower (probably ~10m away), boost up, and fly over. From the tower to when the first tank dies is just 14 seconds, so even if you added another 6 seconds for getting to the tower you're only at 20 seconds per tank kill. As far as I can tell that first kill was not time compressed.

Next, consider that most tanks (60.9% of Vanguards) are running AP while almost none are running HE (7.3% of Vanguards). KPH-wise, the Vanguard AP cannon only gets 20.17... and that includes vehicles. If you subtract out the VKPH/AKPH (assuming that each vehicle has one person in it), this comes out to 6.13 "infantry" KPH.

So how does a tank's 6.13KPH stand up against, say, an infantry carbine that a LA might carry?

Vanguard AP IKPH- 6.13
Mercenary IKPH- 15.15
GD-7F IKPH- 20.57
Bandit IKPH- 25.37

So really we see that most tanks need to exert more effort than infantry to get fewer infantry kills. In comparison to tanks, playing as infantry is truly effortless!

Finally, usefulness.

Kill a tank with C4? What happens? Well assuming that the person was at full resources, they pull another 450 nanite MBT. Kill them again after 20 seconds? No more tanks because they're out of nanites.

Kill an infantryman with a tank? What happens? Well they just wait 10 seconds and they're in the fight again. Kill them again? Back with no cost whatsoever. Kill them again? They're back again.

You could kill an infantryman a million times over and they and their faction would suffer no harm. There is no use in killing infantry that way because their cost is meaningless, whereas killing an MBT twice ensures that the MBT is not coming back for at least 60 seconds or more.

In other words, in time, effort, and usefulness infantry always have the advantage over tanks. Competitive play during Server Smashes easily proves this. You could only attempt to argue otherwise if:

1) Redeployside is removed, and infantry need as much "downtime" as tank
2) Tank lethality against infantry is greatly increased
3) Killing infantry carries a cost to the infantry player (my suggestion of making C4 cost nanites)

I think ether tank lethality needs to be increased (co-axial kobalt) or there needs to be some new reward system that is competitive and weighs vehicle, infantry and objective XP actions with the system weighted towards objectives first, vehicles killed second and infantry killed and lastly support actions repair/resupply/heal/revive.

if someone keeps trying and failing to kill a specific tank he'll hurt his faction in the system and only help the enemy at some point people will try and die and feed the tanker points for his faction exceeding the points awarded for 1 tank's destruction.

OK i have a few problems with this but the biggest is that KPH

The KPH is bluntly pointless. Tanks have a higher K/D ratio and tend to stay far back to avoid other tanks and infantry so they can safely repair

If your tank gets busted and you pull one again in a situation where itll break immediate then this your fault. Exceptions for bad base design vehicle camping but that doesnt fit the scenario youre trying to paint here

Saying theres no use in killing infantry is frustrating. You literally missed the camping fiasco that lead to indar being changed rather heavily?

Defending attacking positions or setting up for the next position?

Id like to give you more credit but youre blanketing so much that isnt true here

Oh come on, it's not as if the game revolves constantly about redeploying to other bases. Most people fight for extended periods of time at bases, and it's the vehicles that are first at the next base.
Redeployside is based on getting zergs to bases and instantly stopping a capture.
Vehicle users survive for longer and get more kills, they have a pretty big effect on where infantry can move or not. They are often used as farm vehicles for a reason and they dictate how much they can be engaged by infantry.

As I mentioned in the other thread, those tanks could have completely prevented the entire affair by, you know, actually reacting. The guy gets shot at and spotted at multiple points during the video, he is well within the gun elevation of the tanks (especially considering they have to go up a hill to get to the positions they are standing in) and with any AI-top gun or a single dedicated infantry player watching the same area of sky he uses to get there it wouldn't have been a problem at all.
So using it as "proof" that infantry one-up tanks is kinda far-fetched. It's as if players complain about snipers while constantly running right into open area's right in the view of sniper nests and never doing anything to protect themselves or use cover.
In most area's you'll need more people and more time to kill a tank, while that tank kills players over and over again costing them their time and effecting the battle. Even if it's an LA doing kills like in the video it will usually cost a lot more time. Not to mention that those around 6 tanks on the ridge are keeping easily 20 infantry busy on the walls.

Oh come on, you know very well how infantry kills inflate much easier. Infantry fights have very short lifespan between spawning and getting into a fight, inflating the amount of kills infantry gets against infantry and inflating the amount of KPH you can have. Especially since in the "downtime" between death and respawning the KPH stops as you haven't got anything equipped. Add revival kills and you are set for one hell of a KPH inflation.

Tanks need some more time to get from base to base, I'll give you that. But that tanks require more effort? Absolutely not. Tanks are dangerous, tanks cause incredible changes in infantry behaviour to try and avoid tanks, which drops the tank KPH and inflates infantry KPH even more since they will prefer to try and go through some chokepoint against infantry rather than go up against a tank.

If you really die within 20 seconds twice in a row, you had it coming.

So? It does cost them time, it does ruin any effort they were making, especially if they took several minutes to get in their position only to get clobbered by a tank. Tanks in the right position also extend the time people to get around as they will prefer to avoid area's where tanks can easily fire and take alternative routes. These routes are either extremely short as they run right into the heaviest infantry resistance or long as they try to avoid all the infantry and tanks, extending the time required to get anything done.

If infantry cost resources, would it suddenly matter? You say that an MBT not comming back for 60 seconds or more is a problem, all the while that tank might have killed 10 people and caused them to be out of the fight for more than a minute! The game isn't just about resources and you know it.

Aside from the redeployside, I see no real reason why you would be right. Also why should tank lethality need to be increased? I know plenty of reasons why, but the reasons you seem to be giving are completely out of whack.

The only thing what devs should do as i think, is take c4 from MEDIC!!! that's all. Strange why engineer, explosive specialist, who can disarm AT mines, can not bring c4!! What really?! Are u f****** kidding me?! Medic has c4 engineer no!!! so give infiltrator c4 too and maxes !!!!!