rebalance infiltrators

If you do not know, for once I will not divulge, because it is a very annoying tactic for me.

An Infiltrator's weapon system may as well be disabled if they continuously miss their target. What a lot of people do not realize is; as I stated, even though your weapon will always have the ability to damage your target, it will not always have the ability to kill your target. Knowing when this situation emerges and applying a well timed retreat will catapult even sub-average players into the Pro's.

As far as the term Glass Cannon that is the hallmark of an Infiltrator. Again, infiltrators are very easy to kill, they depend on stealth and not being hit at all to survive. This is the Glass part. Infiltrators are the only class that can consistently 1 hit kill a target, via Long or short ranges, they are hands down the second most damaging class in the game when it come to infantry. This is the Cannon part.

It’s ironic, because I play mostly Heavy Assault, infiltrators are here to stay. They modified the weapons in such a way and made head shots more
punishing, because HA used to be able to take shots hit the save the day shield button out spam a sniper with LMG rounds and give them the middle finger when dead.

Now suddenly HA can’t spam in a show down like a wild west cowboy and has to use cover, concealment or tactics or his head get’s blown off?

There is so many ways to counter infiltrators in the game. Get some skill!

I'm joining the discussion a little late, sorry.

I think the problem is in this very sentence, let me explain:

I suggest you to try playing Infi sometimes for the following reasons:

1) You will better understand "your enemy"
2) It's a very important and interesting class
3) It can be played mainly in three ways: sniping, fast smg killer, hidden predator. The last two are very difficult to master but extremely rewarding once mastered

That said I think the infi are perfectly balanced and I can see why their KD is generally higher:

A) Most infi are used as sniper and snipers have very high KDs
B) Only the most skillfull players use infi for non-sniping gameplay, hence an higher KD
C) Boomers

Literally what

Infiltrators have as much HP as any other class, and they get 35% damage resistance when cloaked. This makes them stronger than LA, medic and Engineer. Does this mean that those three classes are even weaker glass cannons?

There aren't many counters to getting your head blown off by someone that you can't see coming (while they know exactly where you are) and who is not restricted by range.

Infiltrator playstyles are generally very easy to do well with, as you can rely on cloak and motion detection to help you through your engagements. Infiltrator requires far less individual skill than other class in that regard.

Looking at the amount of stalker players, this is definitely not true.

and that´s all your opinion, knowing were your opponents are is only half the deal ... it doesn´t mean you automatically win the engagemeant ..
having intel doesn´t make you lazy it offers you better decition making especialy when teamplaying instead of just running into the grinder like a lemming .

of course i have flaws in my gameplay, everyone has some ..
also most games don´t give a **** about real live combat ....
for one in real live there exist satalites, scoutplanes and drones, not just radar ..
why should a sniper control a drone and not an engineer?

Tobi, he was saying it is rare that they AIM for the head, not that they HIT the head. I usually aim in the general vicinity of their head, and sometimes hit the head. I just want to guarantee I hit something instead of missing completely.

Now as for TRSLAYER and Crash, your awareness contributes to being able to find your opponents and guess where they go. Awareness goes hand in hand with reasoning, because when you are aware of your surroundings, you can reason on where people may be. The Infiltrator still needs to use awareness and reasoning, despite having a tool built for awareness. Great, you know where the enemies within a 10m radius are. What are you going to do about it? Also, the counter to Infiltrators recon is to be a slow moving target or a stationary target. It could go a few ways.

1. You could get shot in the head and killed before you can even move.
2. You could crouch-walk and ambush him if he is outdoors, based on the sound of his cloak.
3. If you are indoors, he will walk into a room thinking it is safe, based on his recon, and get lit up by people standing still or crouch-walking.

Just because someone knows where you are when you are moving doesn't mean he will win. It just means other classes should be more cautious when engaging an Infiltrator.

Also TobiMK, you are still wrong in your attempts to make Infiltrators seem like the most unskilled class and the easiest to use. I don't really care about NAC, because that isn't something you have at the beginning of the game, nor something you would fund certs into at the beginning or have the weapons to do well with AT THE BEGINNING! If something is really unskilled, the same newbie player would do considerably better with it as opposed to the other. A Battle Rank 1 noob would not do better with Infiltrator as opposed to any other class for the sole reason of a cloak, recon devices, or NAC. Neither would they do better with a sniper than an LMG or a shotgun or carbine. That is like saying Heavy is unbalanced because they have Adrenaline shield, which is really easy for new players to use and they are unbalanced because they have a high damage rocket launcher that isn't hard to use at all. The argument doesn't make much sense, because that is how the class is designed and how it is supposed to work for that class.

I had completely overlooked this post. Deep Operative specifically makes the cloak harder to see, so what is your point here? It is made to benefit the Infiltrator as long as they have been out of cloak for 12 seconds and if they get shot, it resets. Also, you don't have access to Deep Operative at the beginning of the game, so you can't use that as an argument to say that Infiltrators are unbalanced.

the point is that with dx11 even at medium and high infiltrators have been indirectly buffed by an overtuned graphic effect.

With DX9 they were more visibles.

Actually, medium and high infiltrators are directly nerfed. If everyone played on low, you wouldn't be able to see cloaked Infiltrators. Anything above low, you can see their cloaks. I can't even confirm if what you are saying is true, because I can't play on medium and high, but your whole post stemmed from the fact that you can't see Infiltrators when they have Deep Operative on, not about DX9 or DX11.

This doesn't make it any better. A sniper that doesn't AIM for the head is just a bad sniper. There is nothing else to aim for, unless you know for certain that the enemy is already damaged.

Crouch-walking outdoors is a death sentence.

Standing still is equally a death sentence. Also any smart infiltrator will not blindly trust their radar detection, they'll still assume that someone could be present. Nevertheless motion spotters are still an extreme advantage.

You not caring about NAC and it not being available from the beginning is 100% irrelevant to whether it is balanced or not. Balance does not start with new players.

You know this how? Either way, I'm not claiming that infiltrator doesn't have a skill floor, any class does. But it's problematic for new players, as it develops bad habits and inhibits improvement.

This is not an argument for balance. It is completely irrelevant whether new players have access to it or not, it's still something that is used in the game. You said this twice already, it makes absolutely no sense to look at it this way.

If you don't have something at the beginning of gameplay, it is probably not essential to playing the class. It is just a nice perk to playing it once you have earned it or bought whatever item that is non-essential. NAC is non-essential to the class. Deep Operative is non-essential to the class. If new players don't have access to it, they would obviously whine every time they died to it. When you are going to say that a class is unbalanced, you have to start with what the class unlocks at ground level. You can't compare non-essentials with the essentials. If it isn't starter equipment, you can't use it against an Infiltrator to say that the class is unbalanced. You can only use it to say that whatever the equipment you are referring to is unbalanced. Sure, you could say it is unbalanced with use on that particular class, but you can't say it is what makes an Infiltrator unbalanced. That is why I was talking about things you unlock when you get right into the class as opposed to Max Level equipment and weapons.

Ok i try to speak as if I were speaking with a children of 5 years.
with DX9 infiltrators were more visible with any graphic level.
with DX11 they are less visible and completely invisible in low graphic settings.
This is an indirect buff to infiltrator.

Listen... you are defending the indefensible ... infiltrator is out of the chart in the current state.

And as soon you start to play infantry you get:
sniped
smged
commissioned
knifed

from something that wasn't visible or counterable. It's like play a cheat.

Infiltrator has superior tools when it comes to defining the engagement, yes. I concede that in a 1v1 scenario this gives the infiltrator the initiative and probably the win. I will argue however that considering the role of the Infiltrator as a pure anti-infantry class this is perfectly acceptable. The Heavy still has a reasonable chance in a 1v1 if the Infiltrator misses and is capable of defending itself against vehicles, something the Infiltrator can only run from.

I'm sorry, come again? First of all, that isn't how Free-To-Play players, or FPS players in general, operate. Second, people play HA for the versatility. Saying that the top players only use it for a challenge is so hilariously false it's almost insulting.

If you meet the necessary qualifications, i.e:
-are in the top 10% for HSR
-are in the top 10% for ACC
-are only fighting a single opponent at a time

Then yes, sniper rifles are viable indoors. Even so you are still going to die frequently unless you are with a team due to the fact that even the top 10% miss ~50% of the time and a miss with a bolt action rifle in CQC is usually fatal.

SMG infiltrators are a separate topic altogether. They are also the antithesis of 'strong everywhere'.

The statisticals disagree with you, mate. It's not rare for players to consistently hit headshots when they hit. The problem is that when 50% accuracy is good enough to put you in the top ~50-60 people with most bolt action rifles how frequently you hit the head becomes academic. Most aren't anywhere close to that.

Real talk here. If you and the other top % of players are really serious about proving the point here you would be best served by all maining infiltrator for a couple weeks. Right now the majority seems to be too incompetent to prove your point, either by not being able to aim or not using the right cloak, so if you want to demonstrate how broken this class is I'd suggest getting on in numbers and breaking the meta. If enough people complain about it you'll prove your point and you may even see some changes.
As it sits all that's going to happen is us 'normies' will continue to have a laugh because what we're experiencing in-game apparently doesn't match the E-Sports Jagermeister experience while the only people coming to bat for you are the ones too dumb to come in out of the rain.

You cannot balance a game designed for hundreds of players around the hyper-condensed competitive play that most people don't even know about, let alone partake in. Full stop.

Motion detection spam is ridiculous, I'll give you that. The fact that you can sit on an ammo box and proceed to cover literally hundreds of sq. meters of area in mere seconds is something that has needed a fix for a long, long time. As a force multiplier they are far more potent than any weapon in the infiltrator's arsenal.

Also on Hunter vs NAC: I have both unlocked and for the most part I prefer Hunter. I find not getting seen and therefore not getting shot to be greatly preferable to having slightly more health when I do get shot. It suits my playstyle better. There are arguments to be made for using either. Flat out dismissing everyone who chooses the 'wrong' one as incompetent simply reeks of elitism.

If you play on low graphics, yeah, that is a buff to Infiltrators because you cant see them. I play on low and can't find Infiltrators. They need to fix that. That is just a glitch. Now as for playing on medium+ and them being less visible, are you sure they aren't running Deep Operative, because that matters. That was what you said in the other comment. Deep Operative was hard to see. Congrats, its working. If they are less visible in DX11, that isn't the fault of Infiltrators. That is again, probably just a glitch. There are a ton of glitches in the game right now, from running sonic fast when you try to get on an invisible vehicle to invisible Infiltrators on low graphics. They will be patched eventually. That doesn't mean it is the Infiltrators fault.

The chart you used had already been debunked. It only showed KDR, which is explainable. You getting sniped is also explainable. You stand still or shoot at a 3rd target. The Infiltrator is a priority, because you are easier to shoot when you are slow moving or stationary, and they will take that shot. I already told you I agree about SMG Infiltrators; no need to go there. Stalker Infils are kinda fine; they just need an effect that you can see without a darklight, like a watery effect across the cloak that isn't too easy to see, but it can be done, or just distortion to the wall. If you see it and the Infiltrator knows you are looking at them, they can still fight you, but it is gonna be harder on a target that is suspicious and expects an Infiltrator to be there. What do you think about that? Every class knifes. It is just easier for Infiltrators. There was this Heavy on Emerald, and he ran around with an Overshield and knifed our whole team. He had the 1 hit kill knife too, so he was hard to kill. He was good, and he was annoying. I am pretty sure he has gotten a bigger killstreak with that knife than most Infiltrators.

As already stated, Infiltrators are counterable, and Infiltrators are visible if you play on Medium+. You say they are less visible. I can't prove or disprove that, but people want to believe what they want to believe. If you want to believe Infiltrators are unbalanced, you will. However, just because they are less visible doesn't mean they are invisible. If that really isn't a glitch, guess you gotta train your eyes and reflexes to combat them.

Oh if we are talking motion detection spam, then ya, that is stupid. You do need an Engineer to give you an ammo pack, unless you can just place one as an Engineer and come back as an Infiltrator, but then you just wasted time for Motion Detection. I rarely see that on Emerald recently. I have been the only Infiltrator supplying any Motion Detection really. But Kane makes a good point: Infiltrators are infantry only. They should be good at what they do. I don't really like SMG Infiltrators, and think SMGs should be removed from Infiltrators and their Auto Scout Rifles receive buffs that punish you for missing the head but reward you for hitting it, like the Tomoe. The Tomoe is a great ASR, and I think all the ASRs should be like it in some way or another.

Side question: Is Doku making Empire Specific Auto Scout Rifles that have their own special things, like the carbines, battle rifles, and SMGs?

This is more about playstyle. Infils rarely directly engage. Less opportunities to die. That doesn't make them more effective at accomplishing goals alone. That is their role in the team.