Pump action shotguns need a buff

This, this and this.

You shouldn't talk about credentials until you've done a little research, but that's off topic.

1) Leading isn't hard, and a ROF buff is a damage buff. Get your P2W ******** out of here.

2) Wrong. Some weapons are more frustrating than others for reasons obvious if you've spent any significant amount time in this game.

3) I fully support a refund or a nerf to other shotguns.

So again, you don't know what you're talking about.

Leading a target at medium range with an LMG or AR isn't hard. Leading an erratic target in super close range with a weapon that fires in unpredictable directions is not. Allow me to quote you:

Seriously, though. What is it with people who don't use shotguns trying to come in here and tell us about how they have a valid opinion? Also, notice how all the people screaming "SHOTGUNS DON'T NEED BUFFS" are also the ones who've never used them.

Because this game isn't composed entirely of shotgun users and should not cater exclusively to them to the detriment of the game.

Everyone understands this apart from you two, and based on your posts and stats, I strongly recommend that you try to get better at the game before trying to ruin it.

Did it ever cross your mind that i DON'T want to instagib people when i'm intantry ? Sorry but if i wanted to do that i'd be running around with my rocket launcher launching it on everyones face and getting kills. It's even HARDER than using a shotgun so it would be less "lame", still i'm not doing that either. Oh and i am not "camping" spots inside bases like many shotgun users do just so they have the upper hand inside a small room. But i guess you ignore that "issue" as well.

If you want to play the best way you can don't rely on weapons than can kill infantry with 1 shot in under 10m. Not just that but you are also trying to convince people that it's hard to shoot someone dead center using a shotgun in under 10m. What's next ? Perhaps that's it's hard to jump around ?

I am not getting between your argument but i WOULD want SOE to refund me several weapons that have been nerfed because whiners from both the TR and the VS came here demanding that. Yet you DON'T see me asking for it (nor do you see me ask them to BUFF things. Sometimes i ask that they fix Bugs but that's that).

Shotguns definitely don't need buffs.

A little more ammunition for my Nighthawk would be nice. Its empty so fast :/ I can kill like 3-4 people and then i'm OOA. With the MSW-R or TMG-50 I can easily kill 8-12 people :/
Propably most people don't stay alive so long to get that problem xD

This thread is exactly why nothing constructive ever gets discussed on this forum. We get a bunch of closed-minded, ignorant people who are completely unwilling to view a subject objectively that start spewing uninformed opinions and insults, then it everything quickly devolves into a flame war.

This thread:

"Pump action shotguns could use some buffs..."

"NO, THEY'RE FINE"

"Well, see they actually have some glaring issues. If you'll let me explai-"

"NO, THEY'RE FINE. SHUT UP!"

"Wait, do you even use shotguns?"

"NO, THEY'RE FOR NO-SKILL SCRUBS LIKE YOU"

"Well, if you've never used them, how are you qualified to discuss shotgun balance?"

"BECAUSE THEY CAN ONE SHOT PEOPLE, DUH. STOP TRYING TO RUIN MY GAME!"

"Hold on, I don't want them to be overpowered, I just think certain aspects of them could be-"

"NO, SHUT UP. YOU'RE AN IDIOT, AND YOU SUCK AT THIS GAME. STOP TALKING RIGHT NOW!"

"Sigh.."

I have auraxium on all 5 shotguns. Please tell me how ignorant I am of shotguns.

/thread

Sorry, guys. One guy in here with a lot of shotgun experience thinks they're fine. Now we have to go find something else to complain about. All our points are now invalidated because one guy says so.

Make that two guys. If you can't cut it with the already cheesy PA, maybe full auto shotties are more your style. If you can't cut it with full auto shotties, I could probably point you towards several good skilled nursing facilities in your area.

You really need to make up your mind. Previously you said that because i don't use these easy 2 kill weapons i am not entitled to speak about them. Now that someone has auraxium on all 5 shotguns and another one who's BR100 say that they are fine and then some and you say that their opinion is also invalid.

And then you try to convince us all that these are not farming tools........Yeah right

You were the one that brought up the only people that don't agree with you don't use shotguns. I'm not sure what valid points you have made other than some weapons perform better (which is not necessarily an indication that buffs are needed).

This thread would make a lot more sense if it was "second generation PA shotties are worthless," but it's not.

Can you imagine if some people here played with the beta version of the Nova?

I never said his opinion was invalid, I simply poked fun at the fact that he seems to believe that his credentials make his words law. He didn't state reasons, or combat my arguments, he simply shouted his opinions like so many others.

Your opinion, however, is simply amusing.

I'm about done with this thread. It's the same nonsense that I usually find on this forum. No one here is going to change their mind, or even entertain the ideas of those who speak for shotgun buffs, so why bother?

I'm not even pushing hard for shotgun buffs. I do alright with them. I think they have issues, but I can live with them. My problem is with the people coming in here (whether their opinion is informed, or not) and won't even consider, or try to intelligently discuss whether shotguns have problems.

I re-read the thread because I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything, and the only valid point you made throughout was shots trailing while strafing. However, seeing as this is an issue that affects every weapon in the game, it's hardly a justification for PA buffs. I'm not sure how much you played with PA shotties when they were released, but they were insanely overpowered and all but ruined CQC fights. They're in a good spot right now, good players running light assault with a PA can absolutely dominate. TTK is a null agreement with pump actions because they have an effective TTK of 0s. They aren't about brute forcing 1v1s, they're about putting yourself in situations where your enemy doesn't get a chance to react. Honest question, how much time did you spend with the pump action while playing heavy?

As an infiltrator.

I never said my word was law, I disputed your statements that nobody that uses shotguns disagreed with you. Here, I will take the OP and give my comments if you're interested in meaningful discussion:

- The state PA shotties are currently in pretty much means that semi auto shotguns and second generation SMGs are direct upgrades over PA shotguns.
Partially true. They are downgrades from the autos, but that's because the autos should be brought down in effectiveness to be more in line with the other shotguns. SMGs are not direct upgrades because I can position myself in most situations so that an SMG user has no chance against me. I also have auraxium on the Sirius for context.

- The only range at which OHK ever occurs is touching range, so the weapon is basically an upgraded quick knife (unless the target isn't a HA and/or doesn't have nanoweave equipped which is about 33% of the time)
This is misleading at best. It makes several assumptions that are not based in the reality of the game. First off, the range is not as bad as the statement says. Second, targets often are not at full health/shields, so a OHK doesn't always require all pellets to hit. Finally, playing to the strengths of the weapon greatly increases its effectiveness, which is not a statistical measurement. It is hard to determine if someone is using a weapon properly, or doing something stupid like running directly at someone blasting your shotgun from 20m away. The biggest issue I see with people that complain about shotguns is they fail from a tactical perspective, which is not the same as the weapon being underpowered.

- The PA is a situational weapon which should award situational awareness and creeping up behind or near your enemy, as well as accuracy - but most of the time this isn't the case. Currently if your first shot doesn't kill the enemy you're at a serious disadvantage in the fight, and for a weapon that is completely limited to the range of 3 meters this is absurd.
All guns are situational in the sense that they perform best in particular specific situations. Some may be better all around, but there is no better weapon for CQC than a shotgun IF you utilize it in the optimal setting (which you can dictate a vast majority of the time). Regarding missing shots, I've always found that it's not a big deal due to most players' aim being under 25% with rifles. I'm pretty sure that gives me enough time to shoot a second shot. This, to me, is an indication that people are simply missing lots of shots with the shotgun, which is not the weapon's fault. The last statement is far off as if you think the PA has an effective range of 3 meters, I don't know what to tell you.

Scat maxes were considered broken and was very OP because they could drop anyone in 2 hits (one from each arm) at anything from 0 to 20 meters - today that range is down to 10, give or take a meter, and a 4 shot-kill out to some 15-12 meters after that. The TTK on scat maxes up close is absurd - you come close to one and see the max, he sees you, then you instantly die because he fired.

The Pump-action shotguns are different - they can drop you in one shot if you are anything but a max and heavy with shield up, inside of 0-5 meters or so, UNLESS HE MISS - and missing is rather easy. The max has semi-automatic/automatic fire and far more hitpoints, so can be forgiven for missing. Infantry that miss with a Pump action are left with a far smaller HP pool and far less time to correct that miss and kill the target.

There really is no factual compare here, and the issue with pump actions is that the pellet spread is relatively random - I've scored over 100 kills with a Blackjack, and I know there were many situations where I should have killed the enemy in one shot but did not because half the pellets decided to go outside of the hit-box, making a second shot necessary.

All weapons require some skill to use, you can cry that a OHK weapons don't all you want but that won't refute facts - a Carbine, regardless of witch one, require skills - figuring out how the weapon behaves in different ranges, with different additions. Figuring out how to properly burst-fire your weapon and manage recoil, figuring out what situations to exchange the carbine for another weapon that is more suited for the job, and so on. Shotguns are no exception. They require you to develop a steady aim, to utilize your surroundings more intuitively because you don't have the luxury of repeat fire and good range. They also require you to figure out when it's time to get another weapon.

Shotguns serve a purpose as CQC weapons and little else, they have next to no use on an open field and are as such, like all other weapons in this game, balanced for their jobs. We have a right to ask that pump action shotguns are actually viable in it's one single job. I utilize the PA shotgun for CQC combat for it's effectiveness in that role, when I need an all-purpose gun for, say, my Engineer, I'll grab a Jaguar, or T5-AMC for a bit better range.