Physics, Target Tracking, and... A shotgun sniper? - Why the Infiltrator is stronger than you think.

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by MittRackRObama, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. MittRackRObama

    I did an edit but please be nice this is my first post and I hope we can have a constructive conversation about this. It's the internet, I know, but agree or disagree please tell me why in a way that you would want to be told. Thank you!

    I find the Vanu starter sniper rifle to be the best. Here's why.

    10X or 12X scope is needed for these gains to be seen as well as the recoil dampener (grip). None of these scenarios include the MAX class, as they are generally not killable without multiple shots from bolt-action or semi-auto snipers.

    1) Physics

    Yes, the game physics make any long range combat learning curve large for non-beta testers in PS2, however I have approx. 2days played on PS2 and after that amount of time I find I have begun to master long range sniping with the Semi-Auto Vanu sniper rifle. I'm not a typical play for a few hours FPS player like I assume that at least the majority of people on Jaeger are, however I have some simple points I'll elaborate on to explain to you how and why I chose Infiltrator, and how and why it's a stronger class than most may initially perceive it to be.

    To get to my point #1, your targets are often moving. Want to be a sniper and get "BOOM HEADSHOT" kills on ALL targets moving and not? Not likely in PS2 with a bolt-action. However the alternative is much more effective than you might think. I'll get to why Semi-Auto Snipers are more versatile and don't reward camping and why this class doesn't reward it either in a second.

    Semi-Auto Sniper rifles DO kill one head shot + two chest. Don't ask me, ask any game developer (discounting max or shielded heavy class kills). At times (depending on class and health status) one headshot, or one head shot one body shot, or finally, two head shots will kill a target (discounting heavy or Max) when using the Vanu Semi-Auto default sniper rifle.

    I can 100% back up the former statement that is listed in italics as I have plenty of kills under my belt and have done extensive research on the power of all weapons in PS2. As for anything else, I'm open for conversation and debate but in order to be on the same page and have a discussion it's important to understand the power or said guns being discussed and it's important to understand that those italics are factual, not misrepresented figures.

    This all leads us to understanding tracking. Your opponents are going to be running quite a bit when you want them to stand still. Here I'll tell you why Semi-Automatic Sniper Rifles excel at tracking opponents ESPECIALLY at a distance, and how they give you other benefits over Bolt-Action rifles.

    2) Reload and Tracking - Bolt-Action vs Semi-Automatic

    So why not bolt-action you ask?

    Try tracking a moving target while reloading (or cocking your gun). By the time you zoom back in, provided your target is close enough for you to see him moving on screen un-scoped among 20 other team mates and opponents. It's a losing battle. The average computer screen is NOT big enough to see a target clearly from 2000m away on PS2 without the help of a scope. Mind you I said clearly. There are situations with a snowy backdrop where you may see targets un-scoped from a distance, but try tacking them while un-zooming after every shot. Hell, on a 24" 1080p monitor all settings on HIGH 60 FPS + (I have 20/20 vision) tracking an opponent while re-loading my bolt (not a full reload) is insurmountably difficult compared to using a 10 shot semi-auto. Sure the bullets in the semi-auto do less damage, but you can follow moving targets for 10 shots never un-scope, spam your trigger and get a kill you otherwise never would have been able to achieve with a bolt-action rifle due to losing your target or not being able to maintain their trajectory throughout the entire process of firing on them while adjusting your lead for (depending on faction) bullet drop and server latency.

    You can SEE where all your bullets are going with semi-autos, where they hit relative to the target, and you can adjust on the fly. This is all because you can remain zoomed in with a perfect track on your target and on where your bullets hit. Vanu especially gives a giant glow of purple where your bullets hit if they don't hit the target.

    With Bolt-Action you are forced to make a decision between watching your shot hit, or reloading/and/or cloaking in whatever order you may or may not chose.

    Bolt-Action simply put, over-complicates the tracking process, and reduces your effectiveness on moving targets in general. That's a massive amount of targets we are losing the jump on especially when distance, physics, and bullet drop can not be COMPLETELY accurately accounted for without some trial and error per each single bullet fired in any scenario. Here is why...

    Server latency/ping/graphical FPS drops change in small or large increments on the fly sometimes all at the same time, and sometimes these differences are noticeable, and sometimes not. Regardless having a sniper rifle that will allow you to adjust for these differences of where your bullet actually hits, and where you target actually physically is, will allow you to have a spectacular KD ratio when compared to guns that deter the tracking proces ex. Bolt-Action Rifles. The latency, ping, graphical (or whatever you want to calls these issues distinctively) strongly will impact your KD ratio over time. If adjusted for properlywith a bolt-action rile these latency issues can be guessed, and gauged, but those guesses and gauging of long range bullet arrivals will be much easier to do in 5 shots in the span of 3 seconds than 5 shots in the span of 7-15 seconds (approx. times semi-auto vs. bolt-action don't quote me on this correct me if you will)

    Tracking targets at close range with a Bolt-Action is not hard, however snipers are at their strongest at a distance. Stating that snipers are strong close range would seem counter-intuitive, but later I'll explain how semi-autos are strong at closer ranges as well as at a distance in my final part 3.

    The physics of the game make it difficult to hit your opponent 3 times or 2 times with a bolt action in order to get a kill or even once in the head, because by the time your opponent gets hit or is shot at he is looking for you. As you all know too well the red indicator will tell us where we are being shot from. Killing your target before he can spot you gives you the advantage of maintaining position without feeling threatened, and the advantage of continuing to maintain stealth and that all too important jump on your opponents. If you're looking for XP, you'll get plenty more kills remaining invisible than by running out into the open for all to see (including enemy snipers). The Semi-Auto Sniper rifles with their high rate of fire allow you to maintain that anonymity, while giving you the luxury of a 10 round clip to finish your moving targets promptly before they can spot you.

    The Bolt-Action allows you to make that single head shot kill, but the physics, reload and tacking process of the infiltrator class (primarily tested on Vanu Sovereignty ) while using the Bolt-Action Sniper Rifle deter you from actually staying hidden when taking more time to re-**** your gun, from getting quick moving kills, and ultimately keeping you alive by remainingundetected through those longer reloads and ***** of the gun.

    3) Shotguns Anyone?

    Want the effectiveness of a shotgun at close range in a gun that gets you kills from 2000m away? Look no farther than the semi-auto rifle. Much can be said about "spraying and praying" but doing so with a 10 round clip in hand against and enemy face to face has netted me many kills. This is probably the deal breaker for me, that allows me to use my infiltrator class more frequently in close quarters while capping bases etc. I have yet to empty an entire clip on 1 target (save for a heavy) at close range without killing them. Of course, a great amount of the time I die, but infiltrators have the weakest health/armor/sheild of all classes and should not be expected to perform at close range the way all other classes do with automatic weapons. I'll have you know however, that the cloaking ability of an infiltrator grants you access to more "get the jump on them" situations than any other class. The cloak does not make you invisible, but in a large bio lab it can keep you more or less hidden if used effectively in the right places while limiting movement.

    Getting the jump will allow you to fire off those sniper rounds at a targets back un-scoped. By the time he turns around he's strafing and jumping and and easy target for either your un-scoped semi-auto, or your pistol of which you have a full clip left to use. Again, another advantage the semi-automatic "stock" sniper rifle (Vanu) gives you combined with the infiltrator class abilities.

    In conclusion;

    If I want to kill moving targets at a distance safe enough to keep me alive, to account for all factors impacting bullet trajectory, and ultimately to fire at all targets available to me regardless of their placement or movement, then I chose a semi-auto sniper that keeps me equipped with, in my opinion, quite possibly one of the most versatile weapons available in PlanetSide2.
  2. lNeBl

    Indeed. I play TR, and the semi-auto sniper that you start with is incredibly powerful. Dropping a target at high distances is easy even with the default 6x scope. That is what I use :D. Just line up the headshot, fire, then fire again. The second shot will be on its way before the first shot even hits the target. The chance of the player moving in that small time-frame is quite small.

    Hip-firing the starter semi-auto is pretty inaccurate, and not too reliable. But the HSR-1(not sure what the VS equivalent is) semi-auto with a laser pointer is incredibly accurate while hipfired, and is still able to make those long distance shots. It is pretty expensive though. I have enough cert points although I've yet to purchase it, but the trial was quite a fun experience :)
  3. MittRackRObama

    Very interesting. It's great to hear from other factions because I have a limited knowledge base of experience playing the infiltrator on anything other than Vanu.
  4. lNeBl

    I am worried that in the future when people start getting all the health bonus certs, that the semi-auto may not kill a target in 1 headshot + 1 chest shot, or maybe even 2 headshots.
  5. altonyc

    Are you referring to the semi-automatic scout rifle? The VS semi-auto scout rifle is the Nyx...I love that thing. Have a 2x reflext sight, kills 2 headshots, or usually 1 headshot+2 body shots. Fires fast. If I'm at longer ranges, I use the default, but I used the heck out of the shotgun during beta, and the Nyx is the next best thing (better hipfire accuracy than the snipers, and you can purchase a laser for it to increase hipfire accuracy even more). Damage dropoff is noticeable (way more than the snipers), but no bullet drop, so headshots are easier against stationary targets.
  6. lNeBl

    Yea, the semi auto scout rifle is the HSR-1 for TR :) Its amazing sauce. Though, I don't believe the TR version suffers from damage dropoff. It has bullet drop though of course :p
  7. aR2k

    I like to mix it up. Ill start with the bolt action and stay at a range from the objective, spotting players and taking out stationary targets, often other snipers or engineers who are set up with a turret.
    These are targets that are hard for your teammates to take down, but you can make quick work of them with the bolt action, 1 shot to the head fairly easy.
    On long ranges I will try to avoid hitting running targets, ill track them until they stop, then fire quickly. If i see them running for cover I will make the shot.

    The thing is that with a bolt action, you need to be good and adjusting the lead. You are allowed 1 miss, at that point you should have a good feel of the range and have a 50-50 chance of landing a headshot on the next try.

    The problem is that the jittering of player movements really does not help, but I feel as If i get more and more used to it.

    In short, I have no real issues with long range sniping with a bolt action, the only thing I would like to see changed is more cleaner player movement.

    As we start to get closer to the objective, or im running out of ammo, usually on a good 10-20 kill streak. I will start making my way to the heart of the base, ill take the not so obvious route, get inside, hack a terminal and switch to a semi auto (silenced), continue to take out enemies from inside the base, hack their terminals to avoid vehicle spawns and the resupply ability of the enemy, take out Spawn generators or other objectives within their base.

    Compromise the generator, put down a proximity mine covering one side of the generator, hide in the other and put down a sensor dart. When the enemy comes near, cloak and ambush. repeat this until you are out of sensor darts, at which point you will need to cloak more often incase an enemy comes near. Hope he runs on the proximity mine, toss a grenade and try to stall them until the generator falls.

    So many people struggle with "how to play the infiltrator", bolt action? semi? long range? short range?
    Why choose when you can do both.
    • Up x 1
  8. MittRackRObama

    Definitely a comprehensive approach. You're right there are certain scenarios that call for different weapons, but the same case can be made for different classes. I do not play the infiltrator exclusively, but mostly my post was about obtaining the most amount of XP and staying alive. Secondarily objectives that platoons lay out are a whole other story and require, I believe, a more versatile approach including vehicles, other classes, and different upgrades.

    The sunderer spawning upgrade (forget the acronym for it), air vehicle upgrades, beacons, light assult jet packs for actually getting into bases undetected on top of stuff etc. All that plays into the big picture. The infiltrator can be a diverse class, however I feel the use of situation dependent classes and vehicles give the greatest advantage to any average player.
  9. Wayfar

    I think it is a choice of playstyle. I HATE spray and pray. I love picking out a target, watching their movements and making the perfect shot. That is what you get out of the bolt actions. More of a finesse, take your time kind of weapon. Sure it takes a shot to gauge where you need to aim to start, but soon you'll start to get the feel of a weapon. At least that is what is working for me.

    Bullet drop is so natural feeling. I really like it. Nothing like watching that curling shot drop into someone's skull after aiming upwards. Only issues I've working on is aiming from a high location down at someone moving towards me. Shorter the distance, the better the semi will do.

    The only reason I'd say stick with a semi-auto is the cert process. A lot more value in using a semi. Can put a shorter site on it go in a room blazing. Or prop up on a hill and pick them off after you swap out that scope. You'll be more visible then a guy with a bolt taking tame with his shots though (heeeelloooo red dot). Bolt really handicaps you when you need to get into the niddy-gritty. Leaving ya with one quick shot and a pistol.

    When they start buffing though, it'll be tougher to get longer kills with semi. And that is the situation in which I think the bolt and its heavier damage will come into play.

    >>Basically I agree. if you want quick, simple points, go semiauto. It'll give you the most bang for your cert bucks. But if you're looking to play a certain way, like me, then its a good second option.
  10. m44v

    too long, didn't read.
  11. Aktarus

    thats a long wall of text for so many informations that arent true.

    how can you even think that you already know enough about the infiltrator to judge this class after 2 days seriously .

    Dude in 2 days you have spended how much cert in it ? 100? 200 ? and unlocked what ? 3 % of the infiltrators stuff ? 10 and 12 x scope are the worst to use whatever sniper rifle gun you are using, any experienced infiltrators will stick on the stock scope or get a 7x and wont have any trouble to follow a target even if he have to unscope.

    no one underestimate infiltrators btw and everyone already know that they are strong .

    People like me who complain about the infiltrator weakness are mostly average or good player with a snipe , im br 20 , play snipe since PS1 i have about 70% accuracy with the bolt action NC snipe but i will still feel that the gameplay is precisely limited to the sniping camping , and would like to be able to choose between this role , and a real infiltrator one where you could trade the snipe for an EFFICENT auto CQC gun .

    we actually have one , but whatever faction your are playing they are all broken and really weak.
  12. Schalla

    Some facts are just not true.

    I'm sniping with a 12* Scope, which only exist for the Bolt Action snipers.
    If you are like "GET HIM! *boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom*" that's alright, but that's no sniper. I want to be clear and not a far-range-heavy.
    So you can snipe from a higher distance with boltaction -> Main intention for me.

    And Aktarus, I'm BR 22 and also playing mainly Sniper, and 12x Scope allowed me many kills which would just not be possible with 7x.
  13. Tnsr

    I am pretty sure I can buy the 12x Scope for my semi, too.

    The problem of the Semi first and foremost is the delay between holding breath and the static crosshair and also the time it is static. It is tough to adopt if you are used to Battlefield or Bad Company. I needed some hours with the bolt action. But even then the bolt action is just 1 headshot for a kill. The Semi is two shots, and I often end up with an already moving crosshair when it comes down to its original position after the first shot and the second one misses because of that. It is also so annoying that if you hold your breath one time, you can't just interrupt the holding when you see the target moving. Once you hit holding the breath, you are done for doing a second time for 2 or 3 seconds before you can attempt the next holding. And that's a LOOOOONG time when sniping. If you cancel holding breath by yourself you should get the next try much faster.

    And yes, Infiltrators are limited to long range killing. By any means...I was a machine in BC2 with the M93 and in BF3 with the Glock18. But in PS2 I feel so useless with my NC pistol, it makes me cry (haven't tried out the 500 Cert thing yet). I really don't want to be as strong in CQC with my sidearm as other classes with their primary, but we should get at least a fair chance. Give us PDWs maybe as sidearms (something like Don't make it as powerful as others primaries, but extremly accurate for close-medium ranges.

    Give us more chances to snipe AND go hacking. Like other can do killing AND reviving/healing. Or killing AND repairing. Or killing AND blasting tanks/infantry with rocket launchers. Right now Infiltrators can sniper and snipe or hack and being killed.
  14. Tnsr

  15. lNeBl

    I snipe at max render distance with a 6x scope with ease on my semi. However, a 12x scope is available for semi-auto snipers as well. And the bullet drop is the same.
  16. MittRackRObama

    Judging by your poor grammar and lack of research it's impossible for me to take you seriously. FPS veterans such as myself don't need a year with a game to fully grasp it. We have google search, youtube, and in game experimentation to grasp the most important concepts. Come at me with some actual argument instead of 'because I said so' and insults, and I might take you seriously.
  17. MittRackRObama

    12X scopes are available for semi-auto snipers as well. Check out the Vanu Sovereignty. You'll find it there.
  18. MittRackRObama

    I kind of agree and disagree. I just killed over 100 people at close range with my semi auto today alone. It's a good alternative to the pistol when mobile and forced to go up against heavys with sheilds while strafing and dodging fire.

    Secondly, I never find it difficult to hit an opponent with 2 shots (1 head 1 chest) for the kill while holding my breath in a single try. The beauty is about the semi-auto---is that you can miss and still get the kill. With the bolt action, you don't always have that luxury because by the time your opponent realizes he is being shot at or has been shot and is super low health (bolt-action deals tons of damage), than you scope back in and he is not there anymore. The semi-auto allows you to track the target while the are fleeing for cover. Yes while you breathe it makes it difficult to get a clean shot, but emptying your last 8 shots out of a 10 shot clip to land 1 shot in the chest. Those are good odds of hitting and getting your kill.
  19. MittRackRObama

    I have almost 4 days of GP under my belt now. And I have earned over 1200 certs. Your estimations are way off. I don't run around repairing tanks all day. I actually get 100xp + kills which add up fast.
  20. Schalla

    That's great to hear - but for NC there are none as far as I checked.

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