NC LMGs or "is the Promise really good?"

I have purchased all the new LMGs (being an All Access member I have extra certs). The new Promise seemed to me not bad, but not great either. Basically I have reached the conclusion that for low exp/low skilled player (that would be due to my age and amount of time I have spent/I can spend playing PS2) the Promise is not worth the investment, especially compared to alternative like the cheaper EM1 (just like I did not find the Gladius better than the old Cyclone).

I am aware of the Recoil Scaling mechanism of the Promise - but I wonder how that would be better that bursting, something you do with every LMG. Maybe for players with even less skills that me Recoil Scaling does help, but to fire for extend periods of time is tantamount to sucide in PS2.

Anyway to put some real number to discuss objectively, I looked at the TTK of all NC LMGs with the usual assumptions (no account of bullel travel time, a target with 1000HP, 100% body shots, all shots hit). The numbers seem to confirm the feeling I have had (the Promise is nothing special and the EM1 is marginally better and also cheaper), however other players with different skillset may have a totally different opinion.

The table is here (TTK in ms at various distances ranging from 10 to 90 meters):


The Promise is not a bad LMG at all.
At medium/long range it is better (often marginally) than the GD-22S, SAW-S EM6, EM1, Anchor but that is true for the default SAW as well.
At short range it is beaten by the EM1 and the Anchor.

However, I am back to square one: if I can get more or less equal performances at range with the cheaper EM1 and at close range the EM1 is better, why should I buy the Promise (aside from the fact the Promise is very good looking of course).

The table is flawed in for as much that the first bullet is not counted when calculating TTK, it is fired the moment the trigger is pulled. Also on the “10m” mark, did you then assume that some infinitesimal drop off had occurred? Because that is not consistent on all guns, c.f. the GODSAW which does 200 DMG before 10m, equating to 5 or 6 bullets depending on the interpretation, 0.48 or 0.6 seconds TTK, yet 0.6 or 0.72 seconds if counting the first bullet.

I doubt the Promise appeals to competitive players due to the EM1 being a contender, and better alternatives at the other factions. The CARV-S for instance which has the same damage model but also access to more useful attachments like SPA and Compensator/Supressor. The Recoil Scaling mechanic should in principle lessen the burden of having to make small aim adjustments during bursts. Yet due to the bloom not scaling with the recoil, this appeals to emotion only and is a feature that you don’t need unless you are lazy/drunk.

promise is a pretty EM1, and EM1 is notorious for its lengthy TTK.
stick with your SAWs folks

The promise plays like a very versatile LMG that gifts a TResque spice to your NC gameplay.
Also i've testest the watchman against a good player using the promise, and i haven't won a single 1v1 against him, and anyone else using it in general, so i had to switch to the carv or MSW-R to test again if my aim was off, but then i could actually win those. In general it feels like the promise wins every 1v1 against the watchman so i try to avoid every promise user when when using it.

"The table is flawed in for as much that the first bullet is not counted when calculating TTK, it is fired the moment the trigger is pulled."
--> you are right. Taking that into account the TTK decreases, but the ratio remains the same:


"Also on the “10m” mark, did you then assume that some infinitesimal drop off had occurred? "
--> GodSAW at 10m needs 5 bullets (1000/200 = 5) however at 20m and beyond needs 6 bullets ( at 20m DMG is 194, 1000/194 = 5.15 bullets = 6).

Mhm and Promise at 10m needs 7 bullets (1000/143 = 6.993...), which leaves 6 bullets for TTK calculation of 0.516 secs ((60/698)*6 = 0.5157...)

Promise is the most accurate 143 damage LMG in the game.
it has the starting accuracy of a long range 143 damage weapon, drops to the vertical recoil of an SMG and has a maximum CoF that is tighter than an SMGs starting Hipfire CoF.
no matter at which point you stop firing for a burst you will always be superior in CoF and/or recoil to alternatives.
For example the Pulsar LSW and SVA88 both have reduced bloom,but also worse starting accuracy and they only overtake the promise after the 6th shot, at which point it already has a deceisive recoil advantage.
And it's TTK is more than fine, VS has 6 weapons with that damage tier i can think of the top of my head, 2 carbines, 2ARs, 2 LMGs and i can tell you that they are all excellent weapons.

It also kicks like a 700-rpm SAW, so very little of that 'accuracy' actually matters in real gameplay.

Evaluating the Promise based on its final recoil value is like evaluating the Canis based on its full-spinup RoF: Irrelevant.

The Canis reaches it full RPM after 24 bullets, thats 4 kills. the promise reaches it's full recoil after 6 shots, thats 0.9 kills. if you crouch it reaches it's final recoil after 3 shots, thats 0.4 kills.
and just to remind you, the actual starting recoil of the promise is 0.35 while standing or 0.3 while crouching due to this little mechanic called First shot recoil multiplier.
For comparision: the SVA 88 has a vertical recoil of 0.4 (constant, not even "starting" like the promise)
The Pulsar LSW has a certical recoil of 0.335.

so no, your comment was 100% incorrect.

Mhm and Promise at 10m needs 7 bullets (1000/143 = 6.993...), which leaves 6 bullets for TTK calculation of 0.516 secs ((60/698)*6 = 0.5157...)
--> You are a good reviewer! Yes it should be 516, there was a typo in the Promise formula at 10m.

Are you sure that table is correct, even after the revisions?

The SAW and the GODSAW should have an identical TTK for distances less than or equal to 10m as they both deal 200DMG with a max damage range of 10m with 500RPM. The TTK difference should be non-existent for 10m, I think.

Anyways, the Promise is pretty lackluster even with the recoil mechanic and 1.0 max CoF. No real reason for anyone to use it over all other LMG. And personally I think it looks ugly.

GodSAW has 200/10-167/105 @ 500 RPM, SAW has 200/10-167/85 @ 500 RPM but I added HVA to the SAW as you can see in the notes in brackets so SAW has 200/8-167/105 @ 500 RPM (source: Wiki)

At 10 meters the SAW needs an extra bullet to kill a 1000 HP target because the DMG is less than 200.

then your table is still wrong because it needs a 0m table if you are using some weapons after their Damage dropoff already started

Ah, I see.

In that case, wouldn't it make more sense to compare stock weapons and list them again directly below with the different ammo types?

It would, I will add some rows.

Your chart does not capture an attribute of the promise that is critical: It has an artificially constrained bloom and it's recoil goes down over time, not up.

at the 20-30m range (where it performs fairly well in the charts) the bloom at UNMITIGATED FULL AUTO is about the size of a player torso. At the low end of that range it will do full auto with a bloom about the size of a head. Let that sink in.

It's mediocre to weak at range. In short range though in dense fights it can be used at full auto. With 150 rounds it can simply close a doorway or corner off to the enemy.

The problem with this is that the crosshairs would have to be placed perfectly on the center-mass of the target to fully benefit. This is of course rather difficult to do at ~25m while both parties are ADADancing and getting shot and suffering screenshake/flinch.

And as for mag size, the EM1 can do better with 200 rounds and a faster reload to boot.

The benefits are being overstated I feel. Not to say the Promise is particularly bad, just that isn't not great. It pays for those somewhat niche benefits.

Keeping the crosshairs on target is a problem with every gun for every class in the game.

The Promise allows full auto fire at closer ranges which mitigates this problem substantially. It's downright deadly at ranges where the full auto bloom size head sized. With prefire+supression you can cut anyone down that enters a doorway. The EM1 can't pull this off... you need to lift to let bloom/CoF recover.

I'm finding myself using it more and more. Anchor is the all purpose ganking weapon. GodSAW is the weapon for range. The Promise is great at Anchor ranges in higher population fights.

The Promise is not the first weapon to have a max CoF limiter below the usual: the NSX Naginata has an even lower limiter (0.4 crouch/still or 0.6 stand/still) but I do not recall that weapon had a great success.

That's not to say the Promise or the Naginata have a niche scenario in which they outperform most of the other weapons, but in 99% of the cases, with true TTK below one second because of better situational awareness it all boils down to pure damage per seconds. From that perspective, I tend to rate (being an average Joe Doe player and not a MLG pro) the Promise on par with the EM1 for DMG, but worse in terms of reload time (4.75 versus 3.5 for a short reload), so all in all I would live better with an EM1.

Edit: Taking also in account the EM1 is cheaper

The Naginata also has the highest Recoil in the game (0.7 to the Gauss SAWs 0.55 with a 150rpm higher RoF) and it#s CoF limiter only triggers whenever you stand still while the Promise is limited to 1° even while moving. ontop of that the Promise also has better base accuracy when moving.
and unlike the naginata EVERY NC heavy runs the Promise.
And again: There is 2 VS LMGs that have the same 143@698 without the accuracy benefits of the promise. if you think that it is a lackluster Damage tier i'd love for you to hear how you want to buff the Pulsar LSW and the SVA88 and the default and directive Assault rifle and Carbines.