I went into VR and tried some practice with the SMGs. Headshots make a huge difference. (see numbers below) It seems like you can keep the Full Auto Aimed Shots (with a 1x Scope or 2x Scope) on a non-moving target'a head pretty well at around 15 meters out. Around 20 meters out, it became much harder to hit with Full Auto Aimed Shots on a non-moving target's head for the Blitz, but the Cyclone seemed easier to steer on targets out to 25 meters. The Cyclone just has a narrow vertical kick upwards that is easy to steer on target, while the Blitz's kick was both vertical and horizontal that moves up and to the right. I tried Forward Grip on the Blitz, but it didn't help me tame that kick. Cyclone - Headshots 0m: 3 shots 7m: 4 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 8m: 4 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 9m: 4 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 10m: 4 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 20m: 4 shots (4 shots Infiltrator) 25m: 5 shots (? shots Infiltrator) 30m: no longer accurate for headshot even when aiming with 4x Scope Cyclone - Bodyshots 0m: 6 shots 6m: 6 shots 7m: 7 shots (6 shots Infiltrator) 8m: 7 shots (6 shots Infiltrator) 10m: 7 shots (6 shots Infiltrator) 17m: 7 shots (7 shots Infiltrator) 20m: 7 shots (7 shots Infiltrator) 25m: 8 shots (7 shots Infiltrator) 30m: 8 shots (8 shots Infiltrator) 35m: 9 shots (8 shots Infiltrator) 40m: 10 shots (9 shots Infiltrator) Cyclone w/ Soft Point Ammo - Bodyshots 0m: 6 shots (6 shots Infiltrator) 13m: 7 shots (6 shots Infiltrator) 17m: 7 shots (6 shots Infiltrator) 20m: 7 shots (6 shots Infiltrator) 25m: 8 shots (? shots Infiltrator) 30m: shots ( shots Infiltrator) 35m: shots ( shots Infiltrator) 40m: shots ( shots Infiltrator)
Thank you zaspacer for the numbers. I'm not saying it is easy but I think this shows that headshots are really the way to go. Also, the number of shots might change depending on what kind of armor the have on right? Do the dummies have shields or only health? The softpoint seems high to me. I told someone he should work on "learning his gun" in regards to holding breath for bolts. I can fire and hit targets without the breath holding personally. Took a bit but it is possible to get feel for the way the guns kick and sway. Maybe not for everyone, but I think for people willing to take time and "get to know" their weapons they will improve overall.
Only run with a supressor if you feel you actually need it. If you take off the suppressor you will shoot much farther as well as do more damage. Taking it off saves you around 1 bullet. I used to run around suppressed all the time, but not any longer. Try forward grip if you insist on using a suppressor. I admit it can be handy for knife strikes. However if your sneaky enough consider dropping the grip, drop the suppressor and pickup advanced laser sights for hipfire. You will have very nice accuacry and damage bonus. Wth soft point that should be two less rounds to kill someone. As stated before aim for the head. Consider that to be as crucial as owning the weapon in the first place. We have little room for error. Follow with a knife strike or open with one for best effect.
I've started to get back in to the infiltrator lately, running quite a bit of SMG. I'm TR side and not particularly good at SMG infiltrating, I mean my accuracy is only 22% with the Hailstorm. However, even when I do get in a good position I do feel that the 125 damage SMGs are weak. I've played a few hours with the 167 NC SMG and ahmagawd what a difference. I do infinitely better with that thing. However, I've also been absolutely shredded by other TR using the Hailstorm so I really don't think it's necessarily the weapon itself that's weak, it's us! While I find the higher damage SMGs to be significantly better, it's likely because I'm crap at hitting headshots, which seems to be more crucial with the 125 SMGs. Also, it's very easy to find yourself playing more like a LA/HA trying to take people out beyond 10m at which point you're dead if you don't get in a fair few headshots or the other player is even crappier than you. I really hope the coming NS SMG is at least 143 damage, will make things a lot easier for those of us who aren't very good. But in essence, I think we who feel the 125 damage SMGs are weak simply need to get better at using it! So I do echo the sentiments of many who have posted in this thread. Personally I just start to flinch furiously when people start moving around at these close distances. Maybe it's time to lower the mouse settings or just calm the heck down.
How about automatic scout rifles then? They're pretty much carbines. Weaker carbines without a real option to hipfire, but carbines anyway. Perhaps not exactly CQC weapons with their 0.5x ADS movespeed and atrocious hipfire accuracies though..
Hmm, I didn't consider this from a TR/VS point of view, but I suppose that's true. Comparing to NC weapons, the automatic scout rifle has more (or equal) ROF than all the LMGs and all but one Carbine. The damage is less (or equal). I haven't used my scout rifle for very long yet, but I feel that 24 ammo is just barely enough. Any lower and I'd be in real trouble (instead of just trouble ;P ). Wouldn't mind seeing an increase to that. And given the weapons lack damage (hard to snipe anyone with 125 damage bullets, that's at a minimum 4 headshots), why is the hipfire so terrible? (basically the same starting hipfire CoF as shotgun pellet spread.. just nowhere near the amount of burst damage ). Theoretical TTK wise, the auto-scouts sit at 0.55 seconds which is a bit slower than SMGs. NC SMGs are at 0.46 and 0.50, assuming point blank range, and the other factions are quite similar afaik. At any rate, autoscouts are a viable option for those who dislike SMGs and sniping for whatever reasons
Here are some Headshot numbers for comparison. I listed 5/10/15/20/25 meter intervals, as well as any range that saw a change in the number of shots needed. I used the following Damage Modifying loadouts: 1) none 2) + Soft Point Ammo only 3) + Suppressor only 4) + Suppressor + Soft Point Ammo 1) Cyclone - Headshot 0m: 3 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 5m: 3 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 7m: 4 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 10m: 4 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 15m: 4 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 20m: 4 shots (4 shots Infiltrator) 25m: 4 shots (4 shots Infiltrator) 30m: no longer accurate for headshot 2) Cyclone w/ Soft Point Ammo - Headshot 0m: 3 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 5m: 3 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 10m: 3 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 12m: 4 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 15m: 4 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 20m: 4 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 21m: 4 shots (4 shots Infiltrator) 25m: 4 shots (4 shots Infiltrator) 30m: no longer accurate for headshot 3) Cyclone w/ Suppressor - Headshot 0m: 3 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 5m: 4 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 10m: 4 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 11m: 4 shots (4 shots Infiltrator) 15m: 4 shots (4 shots Infiltrator) 20m: 4 shots (4 shots Infiltrator) 24m: 5 shots (4 shots Infiltrator) 25m: 5 shots (4 shots Infiltrator) 30m: no longer accurate for headshot 4) Cyclone w/ Suppressor + Soft Point Ammo - Headshot 0m: 3 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 5m: 3 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 8m: 4 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 10m: 4 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 15m: 4 shots (3 shots Infiltrator) 16m: 4 shots (4 shots Infiltrator) 20m: 4 shots (4 shots Infiltrator) 25m: 4 shots (4 shots Infiltrator) 30m: no longer accurate for headshot
To be honest, the Sirius can feel like godmode and I can understand why people complain about Infiltrators with SMGs when I catch an opponent off guard from behind. And then it can feel like I'm tickling someone when I shoot them from past 15m or when I get caught in a straight up face to face firefight. In those situations, I rarely win...even if I fire first. That's the most frustrating part about it. Every once in awhile I run into the HA that it doesn't matter if you catch them from behind. Insta-quick shield, turn, shotgun, dead. Makes me a sad infiltrator.
I hate to say this, but try the Eridani. If your having TTK issues, use an Eridani with suppressor, extended mag, soft point ammo, and watch the competition melt away. Head shots are nice, but you can still easily burn through 2 infantry per mag before they can really react. Sirius was designs for slower, sustained fire. There will be guys running much faster RoF weapons that will be able to take that split second turn and blow you away before you can drop them with body shots.
I'm a bit disappointed by my Blitz GD 10, too (Supressor, SPA, Adv. Laser, Reflex 1). It's not a bad gun by far. But it regularly happens, that I get the jump on someone and he wastes me nonetheless. Some users here seem to be adamant against using both supressor and spa. Anyone else get longer experience playing with/without them? Another option could be, to use ADS more and equip a forward grip. But I think this, configuration only gives me an edge, when I can afford these milliseconds at the cost of those close hipfire situations where every bullet matters. Alternativly, how about using the NC first gen smg, Cyclone with adv. Laser and going the full path towards TTK reduction? Are extended mags really that essential in using the first gen smgs?
SMG weak? Nah... Lately I activated the cloak at night in the midst of a firefight, flanked some enemies, headshotted two of them and nailed three other guys from behind and the side before they got me. Lucky me! Some players tend to have tunnelvision if they are up for a target. LAs and Infs can make good use of that. And if you're using a silencer, the others think its just their buddies firing. Before they realize you're there, you can make a nice killing spree.
I've only used the Cyclone in the VR, but I was amazed at how much more controllable the bullet spray was vs. the Blitz. I suggest you hit the VR and try them both out. Try to keep the guns on target at different ranges for: * Body Shots * Head Shots The Cyclone's kick is almost straight up, so you just need to pull it down as you fire. The Blitz is up and to the right, which I found harder to keep on target. Though perhaps with more practice, I could get the Blitz's pull controlled just as well. Also, the Cyclone seems to have lower Time-To-Kill and more Damage/Second: http://ps2model-axiom.rhcloud.com/#dmg/la/1/27000/27001 Anyone want to comment on experience with the two weapons?
I think the Cloak is much more effective at night, which in turn makes using the SMG much more effective at that time.
I know for NC the Cyclone will outdamage any LMG and most carbines in CQC, so it shouldn't feel weak. Am considering getting one for CQC, but can't make up my mind.
Moin I have the Cyclone with adv. laser. Awesome in close quarters, IF you're able to make the 25 bullet clip count. I use it mainly for my infiltrator, for other classes I might go for extended mags or the Blitz. Grüße, regards, the Toast
It doesn't really light you up.. Still dark, it doesn't glow or have lights. It' just the color. It's like having the brightest clothes on, the brightest in the world, but in a dark room, it's still dark and hard to see. You will most likely not see it.
