MAX suits are not fun to play against and there is too many of them

Maxes can be killed by a single guy, I've gone in and dumped bullets into them to kill them before, ZOE doesn't do anything anymore its literally a skill to make your guy glow and take more damage as some sort of hardmode button.

Aegis doesn't protect anywhere but the front, and they can't attack and shoot at the same time, there is nothing wrong with it.

The TR's Anchor mode is more of a defensive thing, and I see nothing wrong with it, not that they can't run behind and tank, anchor, and dump rockets into the *** of it, I just think the way it functions is appropriate to what PS1 had.

MAXs have like 2x the health of an soldier is what it feels like, they are very easy to kill, maybe if you attempt to run into a smart player in a max he'll actually attempt to dodge and avoid damage while taking cover, but a max is hardly OP, they aren't the indoor tanks they should be, they are constantly performing hit and runs because thats all they are good for.

THAT SUMS IT UP.

Literally they run in shoot some guys and immediately run away, now they can only do this because they have a little more health than a heavy assault, because they can afford to take some hits when approaching and running away, but thats it.

Against a single person, I guess it depends on how smart that guy is, whether he is a light assault or something else, I've killed a MAX with a pistol as an infiltrator, all I kept doing was shooting at him and going back into hiding until I whittled him down, which only took 3 clips of my revolver.

I hope that puts it into perspective for you about how weak a MAX is, it can be taken down with a pistol and not all of them were head shots though I did try to make them all count.

C4 can one hit kill them, it takes 3 grenades to critically harm them, two tank AP rounds, 3 HE rounds, 2 rockets, and two magazines from a LMG.

Their weapons are mediocre, I think someone did the math and compared max weapons to being like duel wielding subpar beamers. The only way a max kills infantry well if he duel wields anti infantry weapons as hes gonna have a hard time defending himself with only one or if he had duel flak or anti vehicle weapons.

Play a MAX some time, if it was my way, I'd make it so it takes 3 rockets, and make it real difficult for a single person to kill them with small arms fire. I also want them to have single arm weapons, like how the stalker cloak prevents you from using your primary, I wish for a empire shared ability that allows you to wield real powerful single arm weaponry.

I'm pretty sure people would like the idea of having a 75mm cannon on their arm in exchange for not being able to duel wield.

How to fix MAXes and lockons in one fell swoop ?

Remove the ability to bear two of the same weapons.


It's easily tweakable to balance AI options so one modified arm equals to 0.75x the power of two current arms.
Wait, you know what ? **** it
Let's go even further back in time; at some point, when buzz was massing Annie squads and denying every vehicle in a 400m radius, many suggested that Lock-ons should be taken away from HAs and MAX-mounted
So here you go:

• Left arm: AI gun, Burster, Dumbfire AV
• Right arm: Lock-on AV, Lock-on AA, Support tool

There, no more AV against infantry ******** since you can't even equip both AI and dumbfire AV at the same time. You can still specialize for pure AV and pure AA. Support arm can be specialized for repairs, aegis shield, or any other imaginative stuff you can come up with.


It won't happen though, because refunding weapons and stuff.
But this is how MAXes should have been made.

I've heard a lot of strange statements about Lockdown but I think calling it a "defensive thing" takes the cake.

That MAX must have not had full Kinetic Armor. If it had, even three full magazines from the Commissioner, even if all of them were headshots, still wouldn't be enough to destroy it (450 damage x 0.12 small arms resist x 18 rounds x 2 headshot = 1944). You'd need one more headshot. Whatever. Serious props for kiting a MAX for a whole 3 magazine's worth in time.

Carbines, mediocre ones. And they don't even have the accuracy of the Carbine class, though VS accuracy at range is still comparative. The second point is contestable but in general having the same weapon on both arms is preferred.

Edit: checked the wiki and redid the math. Wow, I forgot the half of a percent in 87.5%. That actually bumps the damage up to 2025. You can kill a full Kinetic Armor MAX with all 3 magazines of a Commissioner.

A lot of what you have shown are that anecdotal situations being, well, what they are anecdotal. Sure, setting up an AI mine and AT mine is devastating. But it implies several things, one that you have the time to set it up. Which you don't always have the luxury of. UBGL requires a direct hit to deal any sizable damage to infantry, my guess is, it isn't too far fetched to say that it requires the same for a MAX.

Think of it this way, an infantry that decides to take an anti-MAX tool instead of the more versatile and potentially destructive is making a choice. A good one. Just like when you pull a MBT, and you choose your set-up to deal against specific threat or go for a more rounded up set-up for versatility. If vehicles have the weapons to deal with various types of threat, and MAXes also have that choice, why can't infantry have the same?

As said previously, when the best way to deal with a MAX is to pull more MAXes, you have an issue. Your unwillingness to go over that point was funny.

Dealing with a good deal of MAXes by endeavoring to pull an equivalent number of MAXes (or more) is a waste of resources. You MAX crash because you are desperate to make quick and decisive progress on something and, just as often as it works, it also falls apart to a much less mechanized force. It's also very flimsy based on which factions fights which other, how MAX on MAX engagements fan out, with almost as much fatality and the feeling of futility as fragile footman find frequently.

This is not even as bad as the ground AA versus Air problems during and shortly for the while after Beta. The problem there were counters not actually countering what was intended and then the fallback being so woefully ineffectual that the tongue-in-cheek suggestion that to bring three to engage one target wasn't just being saucy. It was almost being an understatement. Three AA MAXes, for example, landing as many of their shots as were possible, still couldn't handle a single ESF within any realistic expectation. The act of trying to fight Air from the ground was absolutely futile, and glory be to those pilots who remembered to engage their other. The situation with MAXes is not so far gone that the unit to be fought is untouchable or inescapbale.

Nothing of what I have said is anecdotal in any sense of word, except the actual anecdote at the end. All of it can be done, some of it in assault and some of it is just a part of setting up good defenses and point control; but, none of it is infeasible and, where it still seems impractical, I assure you that the setup time or precision you envision is an exaggeration. This thread is ripe with callous disrespect of actual ingame experiences and advice regarding MAX engagement and how other people have been successfully engaged as MAXes all because people are just refusing to listen to each other. You're telling me you have trouble because you feel you have no options. I have enumerated the ton of options you have as one of the other five classes and some very rudimentary pointers about how people in general engage MAXes incorrectly and many or most of them have been mentioned once or twice in other replies already to other people. You just brush them aside as if I had been left speechless, searching for something to say as an answer, baffled by your rhetoric. And I keep telling everyone that the big problem is that they keep describing a situation that demonstrates them continuing to rush forward into a high probability of death with guns blazing and then being unhappy that they died.

When I want to pull an anti-MAX hunting build that is not an Heavy Assault, I grab my Engineer, S-variant carbine with UBGL, a sticky grenade, and tank mines. (I don't own a slab of C4 on any of my classes.) I use my ears to listen to the MAX's footfalls, to plot my routes and dodges. I use my superior movement to stay out of the line of sight and flank. I lob a grenade that follows the MAX around with it, imagining that if it could look down at itself it would be flailing in panic. I take a shot of UBGL at it. I stick to corners and peek. I listen for its weapons fire and try to take advantage of the delays. If it's not looking at me, I drop tank mines at its feet as I dart up to it and shoot them. And then there are times that I pull out my rocket launcher and charge head-on into the MAX and let the rocket off as soon as I am confident the hipfire will connect, expecting to die, not always hopeful to deal a killing blow, but content in the fact that I have really messed up that MAX's mojo. And that's just something I could do on my own initiative.

If you want to suggest a weapon that is different from anything we currently have, that's fine; but, actually come up with a good reason for why we're starved for means to deal with MAXes that inconveniences the player against other Infantry classes. As a MAX, I already can tell you that I'm sick of being C4'd, Decimator'd, and even the actual penetration of small arms weapons, but that is part and parcel for the class. I have to deal with the fact that weapons with lots of specific alpha damage as the preferred method of engaging me and, at the same time, everyone in a room will train their small arms on me as soon as I make my presence obvious. Just because I seem to be wearing armor, doesn't mean I won't also die if I am shot enough, just like anyone else. Go on and try to give me another weapon to hate to try engage, but you can't tell me I deserve it.

It must be said once a MAX post: please stop running straight towards the MAX, guns ablazing towards certain death, unless you already knew what to expect and have a plan.

Personally I think MAX units a somewhat UP if anything. They remind me alot of tanks in this game in that they are good for farming some easy kills but have little tactical relevance unless you spam them and swarm your opponent. They should act as force multipliers and breaching tools but that are far too squishy for that. I wished they functioned more like PS1 MAX units where DPS was roughly equal to that of regular infantry but had FAR greater survivablity. MAX units should be nearly immune to small arms fire yet currently they can be focused down easily. Then you have to factor in all the hard counters to MAX suits like C4, AV and conc grenades, HA rocket launchers etc. that they are actually kinda weak in the scenarios where you would really need them like spear heading an assault into a well fortified position. They are not the indoor tanks that they where in PS1.

We don't really need the aggregate stats to prove my point, since we know that MAXes' TTK vs. infantry is about half infantry's TTK vs. MAXes. That's the core imbalance.

The stats simply prove that out, and sure I'm all for getting more aggregate data (in part because due to the above fact, it's really obvious that aggregate data with a larger sample size would continue to reinforce my point.)

The "hybrid vehicle" explanation is just a justification of the status quo. We should understand that the status quo is an objectively shallower game: 6 classes are offered for all of indoor combat, but one of them is a trump card that beats all the others. In a balanced game, it would be an interesting choice you made based on the conditions of the battle. In PS2, the only condition is "does my side have 40% of its players in MAXes yet? Okay, then pick MAX."

Hearthstone (or Magic) would be a less interesting game if certain cards were so good that they appeared in every deck. (Which has been the case at times) Same deal with any imbalance in a game: imbalances deprive a game of interesting choices.

Thats the problem...you are counting it as infantry and its not. Its suppose to be difficult and why you think it should be easier is beyond me (and yes lower their damage would make them easier to kill).

The stats prove your point but you keep thinking that a MAX is only a slightly better HA when its a flawed thinking.

It is a vehicle otherwise a medic would be able to heal an injured MAX. You are not getting the point of a MAX and you have this really idiotic notion that its suppose to be a slightly better HA instead of a specialized limited unit. If you cant grasp that point then you will never understand the game as it should be.

Actually its funny you used that example because one of the more common cards in a blue deck is counterspell and it only costs 2 blue, which can be used to prevent those "good" cards from being used. Its called tactics. If you dont use them then everything is overpowered.

If they keep nerfing things that were unique in PS1, I will quit the game. I'm taking my wallet and myself to some other game. I'd rather keep sweet memories of PS1 nostalgia than ruin it because of whiny brats in PS2.

I don't care if you think "MAXES ARE OP". They are supposed to be OP to single infantryman. They aren't supposed to even be on same starting line. That's the very definition of CLASSES. That's why HA is superior in firefight against LA, Medic, Engineer or Infiltrator (close range).

God. Go back to CoD.

lol if anything, CoD is what the MAXes are similiar to, crutch for bad FPS players(Juggernaut comes to mind uh).
Start using that 'argument' in more adequate context .

Btw HA is not superior to LA,Medic, Infiltrator, just Engineer, but even engineer has Serpent,Lnyx,GD-7F, VX6-7. Do you even play infantry?
LA best and easiest counter to heavy, Medic's guns are superior in close q, except against Vanu heavies who use Orion.
Infi has many advantages against heavy, biggest one is obviously Cloak(absolute invisibility on low settings)and 850RPM SMG with extremely tight hipfire CoF.

Your TLDR is pretty much 'Don't nerf muh MAXes because they were in PS1??? Where's reason in that?

As far as the two games are concerned, MAXes in PS1 were far more different than now, closer to what i'm suggesting to be changed to, support tank. Now is MAX spam on every sight because they individually account for more than 3-5infantry guys at least when deployed, which is retrded.

Sorry, but MAX in PS2 is EXACTLY like it was in PS1 in terms of power. Single infantryman had no real chance against a MAX, as it should be. MAXes STILL can't REPAIR themselves. Just like it was in PS1. They ARE walking heavy weapons platforms, that NEED support to stay alive. NEVER have I seen base taken with nothing but MAXes.

LA is best and easiest counter to heavy? Medic's guns are superior in cqc? And you're asking me if I even play infantry? I do NOTHING but play infantry. JESUS CHRIST. HAHAHAHAHA. The difference between me and you is probably the fact that I play in organized squads and you are just 1 guy running around, looking to get better k/d.

This is pointless. I'm not even gonna start arguing with you. You are just oblivious to the reality. Here's a hint: PS2 is not supposed to be about 1v1. You are just another CoD kiddie who wants the game to be about 1v1. Just whatever. All I'm saying is that if they nerf MAX from what it is to completely useless, then there's no real point in playing this game for me since it'll be just your average FPS game with no depth to it. If you can't deal with it, too bad.

ps: I don't play MAXes that often either, because they are saved for special occasions where a little more power is required and are on cooldown timer.

The difference between you and me clearly here is that i'm working on to improve the game to get more people to play it, while you care only for the toy thing(MAX obviously) that you like using all the time.

Game should be fair to all thats all. I don't think you can grasp the view on how many people left the game just because of the MAXes, the way there were implemented.

The number of friends I introduced the game into, they left at first few days after dying in close quarters to MAXes in no time really.
Sure they should have adapted like me, but they are coming from different FPS background, not like this where everyone has the chance to kill you in easiest way possible(COD era classic), for Example die 5times in a row as shotgun infantry man and then next time they come with MAX, hold LMB and use charge when you try to kite them to get that full effort kill on you. How many people left because of it only SOE's API knows.

Sure it's all interesting at first but when the game becomes reliant on who spams more MAXes is not really that interesting, really not, people leave and will leave. The biggest problem is probably that MAXes can come to places the Capture points are located(A,B,C ones) and clean it in no time in close quarters, and in the end it all matters who spams more bullsht, you can't grasp that cant you.

Sadly for yourself, you are only thinking about you solely, not for others. Not everyone has the mentality of MAX player, not really lol.

Also there has never been real problem infantry killing infantry, only Air spamming infantry, tanks spamming infantry, MAXes spamming infantry, we can't argue on that.

Things need to get in order, for the moment, MAXes do, then the rest, otherwise game will continue dying the slow death as it's now.

That's a point of contestation I am willing to dig my teeth into. How do you know this number?

I doubt the API knows. There is no "Reason for leaving" field.
We do playfully mock the developers for trying to adopt the COD model and co-opt its player base but this is definitely not it. The same argument, mind you, could be said of PS1 trying to induct more classic FPS players of the time (the gunplay was never the greatest). We're never going to be able to appeal to everyone with every aspect of our game and we have to accept that. That does not mean we have to put up with nonsense that you can't fight back against or sincerely poor mechanics; or, that we need to flatten the game into a true arena shooter where everything and everyone was made with carbon paper; but, this is not a case where you can't fight back or the mechanic is rotten, and the premise alone rules out carbon paper. You most certainly can fight back and it's actually much easier to do the less likely you are to charging straight at the enemy and instead focus on trapping the opponent and using weapons it is actually weak against. If we are playing a Doom-esque shooter and my opponent is not circle-strafing, or keeps using pistols against Barons, and then complaining about his subsequent failures, you darned better hope I'm calling him out for not trying very hard.

The desire to turn MAXes into a walking pinata of player normalcy is typically framed by detractors as nothing more than a desire to distill the requirements in this game closer towards run and gun against everything. "Attrition is a pointless gesture generating frustration," were that not exactly the kind of game Planetside 2 should be aspiring towards based on its predecessor, or that it were the kind of strategic engagement frame that players would like any or all of its combat to embody. A unit that seems powerful to its opponents but feels very much glass to its user is very much traditional to this passive-aggressive gameplay.

PS1 was all about spamming things in CQC. We had weapons intentionally designed to spam explosives at each other. Stairwells in the game boiled down to uphill and downhill battles decided by who could throw down the most concentrated damage against the other. Corner camping was even easier because of the ability to peek around them with third person view. We had weapons that caused constant damage. Weapons with significnat damage and significant refire rate. And any well-vetted soldier could do everything if they wanted - heal, repair, lay a trap or two, anti-Vehicular, anti-Infantry, hacking - all while wearing the best suit of armor. PS1 was the successes and the failures of MAX crashes. Once you got into this spam, the supposed long TTK of this game didn't feel so long anymore.

The first retooling of shotguns, especially the inclusion of pump shotguns, and frequent gripes about the "one good shotgun in the game;" the occasional bemoaning of the TR's flat damage model and distribution of what it felt to be its defining weapon trait (whether or not those are valid complaints); the lack of functional or consistent VS faction traits; NC weapons (in general); flinch mechanics; the UBGL; the whole balancing act around sniper rifles based on range to target headshots; rocket launcher shotgunning; must I go on?
Yes, we have had issues with weapons in situations of Infantry killing Infantry that does not include a MAXes. Some justified, some not, others confusions as to application or engagement, but these are all the things that have come up. You can't just discard them to better suit the immediate concern you have.

"Counting it as infantry" doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what you call it, it exists indoors with the other indoor combatants. So it must be balanced against those combatants -- just as vehicles are generally balanced with one another outdoors -- for the game to be interesting.

Slightly better would be if you got 10% more K/D. We're talking DOUBLE K/D here! There is no cautious way of pretending doubling your K/D with a single class isn't an overpowered class unless it literally requires support to achieve that K/D (it doesn't; all my MAX stats except the Connery NC character have virtually no dedicated support, and yet the baseline is doubling my K/D and in organized play it would get much higher.

So you would be fine with them adding a trump-all-vehicles god-vehicle to the outdoor game? It wouldn't be called a vehicle. Maybe we'd call it a Big Flying Robot, or BFR for short. But it wouldn't be called a vehicle. It would ruin the entire outdoor vehicle mix -- instead of a variety of playstyles being viable, this one unit (we couldn't call it a vehicle) would come in and (solo) you would take on at least 3+ solo vehicles per life. Sometimes 30+ vehicles could be killed by this thing.

Do you think that would improve the depth and variety of the outdoor game, or do you think maybe it would oversimplify the outdoor game to the point where it's really only useful to pull this one unit?

Do you think it would matter at all that we avoided calling it a vehicle? Or do you think maybe gameplay is more important than what we call things?

(History lesson: Planetside 1 actually had giant robots called BFRs. Ask any veteran how popular they were...)

Right, and is Counterspell still around? No, because the designers realized that having the same card in every deck forever is bad design. Counterspell would never return unless the game power-crept its way into that being a balanced spell (and in PS2 terms, I'm fine with other infantry power-creeping up to MAXes' level; balance is balance, but obviously it's a lot easier just to balance MAXes by themselves than buffing every single class equally.)

Maxes give you better survivability, but they don't really give you better firepower as all guns kill pdq. The length of that survivability is also entirely dependent on having an engineer and a medic behind you.

The issue I see are players getting caught without smoke or concussion grenade (both of which incapacitate a max). If you've either, then it's not hard to follow up with a coup de grace in the form of c4/rockets. I suspect a big component is that many players like running around with frags/av so they can get easy infantry kills... in which case, that's a problem of your own choosing.

True: a max played by a low skill player will net a positive k/d. It's a forgiving skirmish class when you are presented with a series of 1 v 1s. A max played by a high skilled player, however, will keep his squad alive for long periods; with numerous kills just coming by way of doing that. In a good squad, they go from glass cannon to tank as the situation dictates.

I'm curious, for those that dislike them, what role would you have them do?

It has replacements. Cancel is one of its successor cards, different only by one colorless in cost, and same in effect.

Right, an increase of nearly 50% mana cost!

An increase which balances the card and means that it doesn't automatically show up in all blue decks.

mm thats weird i always get take down so easy when i in a max

I'm a heavy assault player and I can kill max with ease. It also feels much better to kill a max than a light assault.

{PSA} Max suits are fun to play against, and there are not enough Xboxerdude's