MAX Charge removed WTF

Discussion in 'MAX' started by whitescar911, Dec 1, 2016.

  1. Kiddneey

    I am utterly baffled by this change. Charge has been a staple MAX ability from day 1, I took part in early Beta and MAX has always, always, always been able to Charge.

    I take a year off and suddenly Charge is gone? It was the only useful ability to VS MAXes as ZOE is a steaming heap of Bantha poodoo. I use(d) Charge in a variety of ways:
    • Participating in deadlock-breaking MAX crash operations.
    • Juking rockets / shells from HA's, ESFs, tanks, base turrets.
    • Crossing small areas of open terrain which were potential death-traps (such as found in Tech Plants).
    • Escaping a certain death by C4 Fairy / mine-tossing Engie.
    Those activities are now inaccessable. MAX crashes will be a hilariously slow and easy to stop affair, juking anything will be near impossible, open area travel is a death sentence and C4/mine use will be (even) more fatal. Flak armour will be a necessity for all builds now, because a 450n investment is steep for what you get.

    I know the MAX is the ugly b*****d child of Planetside, I know most of the community wants them gone. So maybe now's the time to put MAX into cold storage. Remove the MAX from the game sooner rather than later and put it out of it's misery, like a crippled family pet long past it's time. It is the kindest thing to do.
  2. Destinatus

    I'm out.
    Engineer just ran up to me with C4.
    One shot kill. Nothing I could do.

    BR89 retired.
  3. OldMaster80

    I understand why this has been done but I don't like where Max Units are now.

    Imo charge was bad because 99% of players didn't use it to charge at all, but as a safe escape mode. Too easy to stay on top of a hill farming vehicles and infantry and run away like Usain Bolt after the first Archer shot.

    That being said the emergency repair seems a little underwhelming. They lost the magic panic escape button but I feel like Max Units now cannot do the thing they are supposed to: breaking enemy lines.
  4. Memmio

    I understood when they changed tank mines to trigger on Maxes

    I understood when they've added Archer

    I even understand and accept friggin C4 fairies and million other means of quickly killing max.

    But I really don't understand the rationale of removing the charge.

    Charge was a vital part for max gameplay, especially for NC. As NC max you don't have any fire suppression capability in comparison with other empires. Also there are serious problems with ranges. With small magazine size and long reload time you are becoming an easy prey once it spent or you are out of range. Many good players are successfully exploiting these weaknesses and now with charge removed it became ten times easier. In the days of C4 showers and swarms of harassers, against which Max is absolutely helpless, it is no longer fun to play this class.

    I really hope that this stupid change will be removed or we get something better that emergency repair, which is a complete joke
  5. Thaumatos

    This change makes absolutely no sense.

    Its not like you can keep pulling a MAX's a one-and-done kit. You need to wait for resources once you pull it.

    That was the whole point of getting rid of the continent that made MAX kits 50% cheaper. It unbalanced things on the ground heavily.

    I don't know where they're going with this but it just looks like they want to get rid of the MAX altogether. Sad. Like you're not already losing people to newer, more complex, and more enjoyable shooters.... Dey Break Games.

    For the record...I play NC mostly. I ALWAYS used the charge to get in close. It was the only way an NC MAX could deal massive damage.

    Don't talk about slugs fk'n idiots. Slugs only shoot accurately when you aim. You can't ADS with MAX kits. Slugs are worthless on MAXes.
  6. AZAN

    I have no trouble bringing down inf within a second or two at ranges of 20-40m. I use a gorgon left arm and a hacksaw with slugs on the right. Honestly the poor VS and TR players usually sit still expecting me to miss or something, thinking they are safe. You still shred other maxes very quickly at even greater ranges than normal shotguns allow as well.

    I actually feel bad for them now since the shield is way more useful than their ES abilities. The TR one is situational but pretty niche and the VS one seems genuinely bad. Who would ever want to choose an ability on a TANK type class that actually makes you take more damage, just stupid.

    Honestly NC maxes have gotten a huge relative buff from this patch, while I would love to keep things as they are from a personal perspective the TR and VS maxes should have their abilities improved. Most NC maxes I saw were already using the shield anyway before the patch came out.
  7. Thaumatos

    Not to be a total d!ck...but don't talk about balance when you're using a gun all factions can use. Anyone can use a Gorgon and do what you're doing. The reason why the VS and TR factions don't is because their guns are just better. Try them.

    Also, ever charged into a room and cleared it as a MAX? Not with the Gorgon. I've killed 7+ players at once with the charge. It was an amazing tool for the NC MAX. Clearing rooms was FUN.

    NC MAXes with dual shotguns can double-click-one-shot a heavy at point blank in the head and kill him through the shield. Up close, NC shotgun MAXes will always win against other MAXes regardless of weaponry. That's why the charge was such an amazing tool for the NC.

    Taking it away was a nerf to all MAX suits...but it was a major nerf to the NC faction which is all about close range damage.
  8. Daigons

    No more scaredy cat MAX units using Charge to cheese it back to the spawn room after getting hit once.
  9. Demigan

    My god what kind of whiny kids are you all?

    Seriously the MAX doesn't cost 450 nanites because of Charge, it costs 450 nanites because unlike vehicles it can be revived and wield lots of firepower in infantry spaces.

    The removal of Charge was necessary. It didn't fit the MAX (it does fit the LA for instance, but who cares about the LA?) and it made it OP, giving it the ability to instantly escape just about any situation. The MAX might need an ability to replace it, since emergency repair lacks in just about any department, but that Charge is gone is 100% completely justified.

    Also stop crying about how the devs supposedly only play LA, of all classes the LA has always had the least love and the most nasty updates that nullify the usefulness of the LA, such as giving smoke grenades to everyone but for free and rechargeable at ammo packs, or giving the adrenalin pump ability to other classes, even though the ability isn't exactly good regardless, or adding Spitfires which hurt the LA the most, or adding the new Dildar that once again is more hurtful for the LA that completely relies on stealth movement and cunning compared to the in-your-face-by-obvious-route classes like the Heavy, Medic and Engineer, or when the LA is finally the last class up for a good update like all other classes already got then the only thing that happens is that a redundant Icarus is added and Drifter gets a little upwards motion while hanging still. Whoop dee do! Other classes got new weapons and tools, but the LA can suck it, right?
    The reintroduction of the LA's airborne fighting capabilities is the first real step into improving the LA since four years, four years! Yes that's a reintroduction since in the past LA's could ADS while airborne, although still with a sizeable COF increase. Ofcourse that was removed for... no real reason.

    MAX's aren't weak against small-arms fire and kinetic armor is far from 'necessary'. It's damn useful as it doubles your effective hitpoints against small-arms, but it doesn't make it a requirement. Also the fact that MAX's have a weakness to explosives is good, it means that there's something you can do against a skillsuit.
  10. Kiddneey

    Well thanks for that rant, we get that you love your LA, but this is the MAX forum. So here's the thing; there was no problem with Charge, only the way in which it was most commonly being used, which is symptomatic of how busted MAX is in terms of design.

    Scenario one: On the one hand you have this hulking, tanky, firepower-spewing monster, right? You are playing LA, didn't see the MAX, you round the corner into a MAX and instagib. Damn those 'Skillsuits'. He paid 450 nanites and you didn't stand a chance, nerf MAX.

    Scenario two: Same situation: the same hulking, tanky, firepower-spewing monster is heading into the building. However you hear him this time. You drop a small pack of explosives in his general direction - he sees it and can do nothing, he explodes. Your handful of nanites trump his 450 nanites and you were not in any real danger, he didn't stand a chance, nerf LA?

    Scenario three: Exactly as above: he's using Flak and survives the C4. You drop a second, or you blindside and finish him off with a shotgun. He dies. Mostly the same as #2, but you have a chance to make a mistake. He still can't escape however.

    Anyway, your disrepectful (dare I say inflammatory) post is sure to rustle some jimmies around here. The dedicated MAX player was already as rare as rocking-horse droppings, way to stick the boot in.
    • Up x 3
  11. Problem Officer

    Everyone buy Archer, explosives and Wraith, lower MAX usage stats until it gets fixed.
  12. Demigan

    Not a rant, pointing out where all you kids go wrong.

    I'm not 'deeply respectful', I'm telling you that whining about this change is a terrible waste of time and only there in the hopes of getting an OP ability back.

    MAX's being revivable isn't arbitrary, it's kind of the biggest thing about them. You must not have been there in the early days when MAX's were 200 resources and were revivable. The entire point of making them 450 resources was to avoid MAX spam and justify their revive. And there's only C4 and AV mines that can OHK you if you don't wear flak, so even that is contextual. You can tank an AP round to the face for crying out loud!
    The MAX is a force multiplier, and it's a damn good one even if you pull a vanilla without Charge. If you can't use it that way then it's your failing.

    Not everyone used it to bug out, but 90% did. Even during MAX crashes, which you boast is critically dependent on Charge, there's barely a MAX that charges into it. There's always one who comes up from the back in the hopes to get some more kills, but most of them just walk there.

    I don't know any MAX's that enjoy siegebreaking and nutcracking, since 95% of the MAX time has always been spend farming area's rather than attacking. The only MAX crashes I ever saw or see are the one's to retake the points last-minute or when redeployside comes to take a look. Even those people didn't really use their Charge to get in, rather to get to the front if they think they might be too late for a slaughter.
    Even without Charge a MAX remains a bulletsponge with lots of weapons. It remains a force multiplier that's well worth it's price if you use teamwork, even without teamwork you can make him pay off but that at least takes skill. And that's good, any force multiplier shouldn't pay off automatically just because you bought it. Just like grenades aren't a guaranteed kill.

    There was a lot of players that complain about C4, and as you so gladly pointed out the LA is the one who uses C4 the most.
    Also I'm not showing bias to the LA, beside ofcourse that it's a completely hypocrite thing to say in a thread filled to the brim with MAX-biased people who want an OP ability back. I'm pointing out how the LA has been screwed over since the beginning. Everything I said about the LA there is true. The LA has been neglected for most of the game, this is exactly why the LA has practically only a C4 duty. The LA doesn't have a real teamplay tool or advantage like the other classes, it's ability is even best used solo rather than in a group. The LA loses almost all it's combat abilities the moment it enters indoors area's and becomes a weaker engineer. This isn't LA bias, this is pointing out how the LA class has been left in the dirt for years, and that complaining about the LA is lame at best.

    The Archer isn't exactly small-arms, the Archer is a highly specialized gun specifically designed against MAX's and only two headshots can kill you, otherwise it takes more shots. And boy, do I ever get headshotted by an Archer! Oh wait, no I don't ever get shot by an Archer. It's incredibly tough to find an Archer user because it's so niche and completely screwed up against other targets, and when you do find one they can't aim most of the time.

    Scenario one: Bad luck.
    Scenario two: Highly contextual. The LA just happens to be close to the corner as the MAX is approaching, even though due to the speed difference and the size of the average room it's much more likely that the LA will walk into the room, see the MAX somewhere in it but not close to the corner and then get chewed up or has just enough time to get back into cover. Even if the MAX is close to the corner there's plenty of situations where the MAX would have the time to get to safety, not be close enough to die to the explosion or even have time to simply round the corner and still kill you, which is a variant of scenario one.
    The inner blast radius of C4 is around 4m right? Infantry move around 5m/s in PS2, so before the C4 can be detonated you can get out and survive, assuming you don't run towards the center. You also have access to this thing called "flak armor" which can protect you against one C4, or even 2 if one of them doesn't land well and there's a high chance of that happening since you kind of tip the MAX off with the first C4 in his face.
    scenario three: Wow that MAX is just standing there doing nothing, right? Because it sounds like it's easy to just randomly blindside a MAX, stay close enough to throw another C4 without him exiting the inner blast radius or shooting you before you detonate and/or magically have a shotgun equipped (one of the least used weapons on the LA, and the LA is one of the classes that uses shotguns the most, which makes the Shotgun nerf another nerf against primarily the LA) and then murder the MAX even though it still takes multiple shots to down him.

    How about Scenario four: The MAX is defending, as MAX's often do, and has allies around them, as MAX's are almost guaranteed to have. From the front you have to be inside the MAX and friendly range for a few seconds before you get into range of a C4 strike. Flanking means you have to go through the MAX's allies to get to him and hope you survive, flanking all the way.
  13. Kiddneey

    Disrespectful. Since you don't seem to understand:

    adjective: disrespectful
    showing a lack of respect or courtesy; impolite.
    "a deeply disrespectful attitude towards women"
    synonyms: discourteous, rude, impolite, uncivil, unmannerly, ill-mannered, bad-mannered, ungracious, irreverent, inconsiderate;
    insolent, impudent, impertinent, cheeky, flippant, insubordinate, churlish;
    contemptuous, disdainful, derisive, scornful, disparaging, insulting, abusive;

    "he was cheeky and disrespectful towards his parents"
    antonyms: respectful, polite

    Until you can post sensibly without insulting everyone here by calling them whiny little children (which they aren't, just aggrieved) I will not consider your posts any further.
    • Up x 1
  14. Demigan

    I made a typo, as should have been clear from the context.

    Also you are dodging my arguments. For instance how your scenario's are extremely specific and you are missing the more likely scenario's such as "the MAX doesn't reach the corner at the same time as the LA approaches it"
  15. saronyogg

    And whats wrong with that?
    sometimes there are no engineers around, so you have to flee in order to heal somehow, or lost 450 nanites

    And i against the removal of charge
    Lately i found out that hossin bonus had a 50% discount on maxes
    is this the reason why hossin is so dessert sometimes, and only occur good fights when there is a server peak population?

  16. OldMaster80

    After playing the game a few hours without Charge: nothing.
    I came to the conclusion Max Units are much better without Charge. Smart players can still farm a lot, but they lost the magic escape ticket.
  17. DeadlyOmen

    One of the devs got charged, and hated it.

    However, don't blame the devs. There is a culture built in these forums...that which makes the game scarier must go away.
  18. Vancerman2

    Its quite simple really. Its all for the devs. If you look carefully at the way the game is being developed now, its being molded specifically for the sole interests of the devs playstyle. They don't give a **** about you anymore.
  19. Fishpoke

    Charge was definitely breaking the game, you could run towards C4 so fast sometimes the explosion missed.

    (stop introducing cool abilities and then removing them rather than balancing them, kay thx)
  20. PoopDatGame OUT!

    charge this charge that ..people still run or duck for cover when they see a max walking in.

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