MAX AI kills over 125 hour period (GU14)

ZOE's overpowered for the same reasons Strikers are.

1) They are both dead simple to use; a brand new player can use them for the first time and be more effective than their counterparts
2) They both provide undeniable benefits with minimal drawbacks
3) They both scale really well as you toss more and more of them in the fray
4) They both provide a benefit in their class that the other factions don't have: ZOE's mobility (and ability to chase), Strikers shutting down air as well as ground.

Mostly it's 1). I just feel bad for NC. :\

I got a better version of the data pulled from the PSU forums. It has the AV weapons and bursters with it as well as sorting KPU numbers for BR 76+.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoT5EmuChzPcdEhndkhPT1BJU1FHcHliZlVOU3VzZlE#gid=0

Shows a bit more with the added AV weapons and I had a thought about the weapon types. Shotguns (NC) are a CQC kill out right or not weapon that can do the job without help. HMGs (TR/VS) are med range lead walls that share kills for assists and range.

Does that mean that shotguns should have higher KPUs than HMGs from weapon types alone? Also giving the weapon types, shouldn't HMGs have higher K/Ds than that of shotguns from the risk shotguns need to be effective?

TR MAXes seem to follow this idea but VS MAXes do not. AM I wrong in thinking this? Or is ZOE letting VS MAXes dip into shotgun KPUs thanks to the added damage and being able to do a job alone?

There could be alot of reason but I can tell you mines which is similar to several people I know.

:Most people spent 3k certs or 1400 sc + 1k certs on Hacksaws when it was on the best weapon combo. We are not interest in spending another 3k certs just for the same boring ****** shotgun gameplay but with slightly longer range at the cost of damage and rof.

It's not like you are going to pull a NC AI MAX outside of Bio lab and tower anyway...

VS made the change from cosmos to blueshift almost over night, same cost with the exact same role....

I didn't realise VS were using bloody shotgun as their main AI guns. I'm soo sowry.

Exactly. As I told before, this numbers just mean that more people are using the VS Max.

I bet the Lightning kills on VS side are way higher then the Lightning kills on TR side, because the Magrider is weak and all VS prefer to use the Lightning.

Kill count means nothing besides that the item is being used.

Seems to me like worthless numbers without time played for each MAX...

may i throw in a hearty laugh on that comment? ^^ L2D

Lightning is much more cost effective for 300 resources then the slow moving, slow reloading, low armor Magrider.
That is what we do on Cobalt, maybe that's why we dominate this server. Different strategies...

Thats not a proof, thats an assumption. I want to see the percentage of MAX's that equip thier empire specific ability. Until then youre just talking out of your ***.

Except you cant. With 10 MAX's that means theres 90 people playing other classes also competing for kills. If you assume a certain number of kills on offer, then 10 MAX's would grab a lesser proportion of them, and the rest go to the other classes who are competing. If theres 100 MAX's and no one else competing for kills then the MAX's are going to get much more kills.

Except it is a factor. A MAX that is revived is a MAX that doesnt have to sit through the cooldown before pulling a new MAX, and a MAX that has some engineers on hand is one that can afford to be much more aggressive in combat.

So if VS are supporting thier MAX's better than the NC/TR, the VS MAX's are going to be able to grab more kills.

My subjective opinion, only backed up by how successful I am (or not) with MAX units of NC and VS (I play TR too infrequently to be able to assess their MAX unit): there are roles for each MAX unit, and they are definitely not equal in any given role. I thought that having faction-specific capabilities was desirable. But I occasionally see posts from people that think in a given scenario, the different faction MAX units should have an equal chance. You can't have it both ways.

As has been pointed out innumerable times, the NC AI MAX is good for very close range combat, and only that. I apparently stand corrected by the users of the Mattock, I suppose, but I'm not one of them. I've already spent so much money on MAX arms of various factions, not to mention other (non-MAX) weapons, and been disappointed when they got nerfed to the point that I don't use them anymore, that I'm reluctant to buy more arms which are good only in a specific scenario. A lone-wolf NC AI MAX is guaranteed to be disappointed. I have had a great success with 2 x Hacksaw MAX when: (1) I'm in a Biolab, guarding something in a room, (2) have an engineer backing me up, with whom I'm in voice chat and who has also dropped a few mines, (3) there are at least a couple of other random players around, (4) the enemy keep charging into the room in ones and twos. That's a pretty damn specific scenario. What I don't (yet) have: extended magazines. I think when I do eventually get them, it could make a big difference. The number of times I almost finish something with the Hacksaws, and then have to reload, makes me think that a couple of extra rounds would make all the difference. Perhaps the NC MAX is balanced around having the extended magazines. But at the moment if feels to me like the shotguns got nerfed too much.

The VS MAX is great, and ZOE is easy to use. But that doesn't mean it takes no skill at all. The first several times I tried to use the ZOE, as opposed to the additional ammo I normally carried, I got my *** handed to me. I kept trying to lone-wolf it, running around outside, and running into rooms unsupported, where my MAX got shot out from under me before I could get a single kill. Then I figured out that I needed to invest in the certs to equip it with level 5 kinetic armor when going up against infantry, and stop trying to play it like a tank. After the GU13 resource cost increase, I just quit pulling MAXes at all for a long time, but now I'm starting to do it again, but very selectively. I only ever use two of the same arm, and I have several different pairs of AI weapons I can choose from, but I'm always using the same pair, 2 x Nebula. I like them more than Blueshift. I have success playing the VS AI MAX in Biodomes, similar to the NC MAX, but I'm not limited to hiding in a room waiting to ambush people. I need to have an engineer on voice chat, just as with NC, but I'll go out of the room using ZOE level 3, run the gauntlet through some enemies, creating havoc, and then run back for repairs, usually getting to a safe area with no armor and a sliver of health left. I get caught out occasionally, but more often than not I make it back.

I run into other MAXes while running the gauntlet, and they also have engineer support. So nobody should take what I'm saying about having an engineer backing me up as an implied criticism that the other faction MAXes don't. They do. But, my engineer can wait in a spawn room, or just some regular room, out of sight, and I can run out and around and back to him. The other MAXes move slow, and their engineers need to accompany them, which makes them vulnerable.

The big advantage of the VS MAX is mobility, plain and simple. I can run fast enough with ZOE on to engage in hit-and-run tactics. Indoors, or even outside in closely spaced buildings, and especially where there is a teleporter to a spawn room or safe area where engineers are waiting. I can go in and out, shoot the place up, and run away for repairs. One on one versus another MAX, or even a fully certed HA, it is not so great, but the trick is not to play it like that. You don't hang around to battle it out if you're smart. It's much easier to just run like a maniac, shoot what you can, don't worry about going mano-a-mano, and take the easy kills when you run up behind someone running to get somewhere else. You can run in circles on the ledge of a Biolab, or around the top level of a tower, and because you can run faster than anyone else, you are sure to catch up with an enemy running in circles in the same direction, and shoot them in the back. If they're circling in the other direction, well, you're going to run into them head on and they still won't be too happy. Biggest threat: LI dropping C4 on you.

My VS burster weapons have the extended magazines, and that makes a big difference. An extra 50% rounds fired before having to reload means that planes at short or medium range trying to tough it out usually die. Add on ZOE and that makes it even better. By way of comparison, my NC AA MAX without the extended magazines almost never gets an aircraft kill.

The TR got screwed. Their special ability, lock-down, is not only not very useful in AI combat, it's a downright disadvantage. It might be useful defending a hill top against aircraft stupid enough to only ever attack from one direction. Yeah, how often would that ever happen? Hint: never.

My conclusion: VS, without or without ZOE, is not OP overall, but the NC and TR MAXes are UP and too limited in their roles.

I think instead of nerfing ZOE or the VS MAX weapons, the NC MAX shotgun nerf should be partly or completely reversed or they should get another round or two in their standard magazines, and the TR should get some other ability, but I don't know what.

Outside, where vehicles are running around, none of the MAXes are good, but the VS and TR MAXes are less worthless than the NC MAX. The AV weapons are nowhere near as useful as what infantry carry, from lock-on missiles, to AV turrets, to mines. The AA weapons are OK, but to use them you need to be on a tower or a roof, which is technically outside, but not what I mean when I say outside.

For the future, remember the

Code:

                                 [code] and
                                                

[/code] tags.

They're nice, although I couldn't show the [/code] tag within the tags
Beats underscores or dots or the like anyway.


like so:

Code:

NCM1 Scattercannon 59016    10267    5.74813
NCM1 Scattercannon 12552    927      13.5405
AF-34 Mattock      9039     421      21.4703
AF-34 Mattock      11618    575      20.2052
AF-41 Hacksaw      26749    1619     16.5219
AF-41 Hacksaw      31703    1945     16.2997
AF-23 Grinder      10017    649      15.4345
AF-23 Grinder      19678    1393     14.1263

Have to preview+fix a lot if you type in the forum editor, but any monospace font editor makes things simple, then just copypaste into code tags.

Except that they obviously are. VS has a much more mobile MAX which opens up for game play the others cannot do. The NC is obviously better designed for point defence in small rooms and to do breaching operations thanks to the shotguns and riot shield.

It's like comparing the MBTs, they are all tanks but they are not equal. The Prowler will show up as great since the dual barrels make it better at killing infantry but the Vanguard with its AP shells and shield make it a much better anti tank platform. SO both are tanks but they are designed for different things and therefore, will yield different score for different metrics.

As I said, this is asymmetrical balance.

Should of gave us jump jets instead then

amen vanu brotha

If I had to say one thing about TR MAX that doesn't have anything to do with lockdown, it's that the VS and NC MAXes have situations in which they seem to be capable of melting face easily and that lowers the amount of think-time their target has. I don't even get a chance to entertain fight or flee considerations when I encounter a VS MAX anymore. The NC MAX has always been an oh crap death to encounter. For the VS, it requires the faction specific upgrade mainly and for the NC it requires proximity. For all the time I've played a TR MAX, however, I've found that it doesn't matter what the distance or situation is: it always takes me a specific length of time to hit another unit's TTK and, within that time, I must compensate for the target's reaction, as well as the reaction of any other targets in the encounter. After the initial surprise element, if any, there's a long follow-through where everyone gets enough reaction time.

This isn't even a case of "don't lonewolf" or "learn to ambush;" it's just a requirement of the unit's playstyle.

No. We already know there are differences in MAX usage (and even overall playtime!) by faction. Playing more during the sample period raises your KPU; having a high KPH with less play raises your KPU.

Maybe it's important that one MAX is more fun/more used separate from issues of killing effectiveness and so you'd look at playtime and KPH separately. And those two stats clearly aren't the end-all either. But KPU is affected by both without giving distinguishable information on either. It's so bad that you shouldn't worry about anything it says. It's so bad that it boggles me why the Oracle of Death took the time to learn the API and didn't release anything better. My only guess is it was simple to do and it was a fun first project to get into the census data.

I hope you are the author of this doc. Can you add score per hour statistics?

Right arm is op. devs nerf pls.

So you are going to assume that because "VS are 1337 at teamwork" that is where all of their 40,000 more kills came from.

I do believe I called this on my first post in this thread, that the VS players would attempt to sweep this under the rug by just claiming that the VS are better and TR/NC should lrn2play.