LIBERATOR

And people not like me find the strongest crutch they can and abuse it as hard as they can, for as long as they can. I don't need layers of armor and cannons and engines to win battles for me, and I'm not interested in fighting those who do.

yeah that was only the patch not the summer or the bad performance in the last months but no matter, ESF und gals will take the lib ground and farm ppl like you again. and yes im sure, your kind of people cry in the next weeks for a new Air-nerf

That's the problem right there, the lib should have never been a "Gunship" in the first place. The original design was a bomber, not a heavy armored aircraft with a artillery canon strapped to it.

Heres the thing: now its no different than tanking.

Choose to engage armor with an AP Loadout and it is difficult to engage infantry.
Choose to engage Infantry and it is difficult to engage armor
Go out with no support from your faction and you are as good as dead

Prior, the Lib needed no support. The Lib could handle anything that was thrown at it with relative ease. Armor, Infantry, other aircraft. I love gunning libs and I love flying libs. I know they were waaaaayyy too good at everything. Especially a Shredder/Bulldog/Tank Buster loadout. Nothing could stand against it with competent gunners. Now you have to pick your poison much like tanks.

So in your eyes Libs should be the be all and end all of battles, pretty much on their own. That is pretty much what you have said in the first post.

See, that's your problem right there.

While I completely agree that libs were overnerfed, OP is really not making his case well here. And people who don't have any significant experience in libs that keep saying it's balanced that Dalton has less ammo than any tank primary fail to see that it's significantly harder to direct hit armor with Dalton than any tank AV weapon. This is because you have to always shoot on the move as to not get flakked or AP shelled to death in an instant, and the gunner has to compensate for very awkward drop and leading according to your pilot's movements. Keep in mind that the previous accuracy stats for Dalton are with 9m AV splash and even with that the top gunners average around 50% accuracy.

I actually bought the liberator pack last week because I wanted to start learning flying and how to use it correctly.

Then it gets nerfed into the ground.

My luck, par for the course. Wasted station cash.

Hilarious thread. So many scrub players who thought they were good because of their ability to farm in the air. Learn to do other things or actually improve at this game. Only being effective with one thing isn't being good, it's being a crutch player. Embrace adversity and get good.

I find it amusing. I have never once complained about a nerf. After all, everyone is affected by the changes. I have spent thousands of certs on the liberator just as I have on other vehicles and classes. The exception is that I spent certs and SC on my air vehicles but don't rely on them to be effective or efficient at killing.

People find it so hard to go do something else. They should have listened when others told them to not put all of their eggs into one basket.

What are the million things that warranted a reduction more than the strongest least-counterable thing in the entire game?

All that splash damage cannot be balanced so long as we lack a proper resource system. In addition, there is no way that more than 40 150mm shells can be stored in an aircraft the size of a Liberator. The ammunition nerf was just what it needed.

Raise your hand if you've played with the lib at all since the last update.



I see that a lot of you guys defending the nerfs haven't played a lib since before the 19th on your killboards, or got a killstreak of less than 5 doing so. I also see that a decent number of you are tank farmers, going on killing sprees that are essentially impossible to do on a lib now, unless you happen to be rolling with another 2-4 lib crews, or are selective in your engagements to the point of uselessness. In any platoon sized fight, you have to land and repair within two passes on entry into combat. By your next pass, the AA response will have increased to the point where you will have to repair each time, if it's not too hot to even operate in the area. Worse, though you may be able to do some scattered damage to infantry, the xp spam you're getting is almost entirely kill assists. The bulldog outdoes the zephyr on infantry by a large margin, and SOE is clearly oblivious to why the duster is a terrible weapon. The complete removal of the dalton's splash makes attempting to deal any damage on vehicles even more unforgiving than it was before.

Just like the harasser before it, the nerf bat has been swung and another great element of the game has been reduced to the point where it is outdone in its role by just about any competitor. Unless you are a great shredder or dalton gunner being assisted by a great liberator pilot, there is absolutely no reason to pull the lib over pulling two ESF's, or better, a galaxy. You will see the liberator in the coming days, but you will see far less of the good pilots. Though the narrowminded may be satisfied that their little corner of the game has a little more breathing room, the people who've been playing the whole game has one less toy to play with. I'm not usually one to say this game is dying, but when you're killing off elements one by one until you're down to infantry (the part of the game PS2 excels at least) being the most effective, well...

I don't think we should balance the game after some random statistic from WWII, I don't even know where I should start explaining what's wrong with that, but you seriously think 1 in 3 hits from flak should kill a crew member? It just shows how big bias strict ground players has against air, that would never be acceptable in a tank or whatever.

ok just something short about what's wrong with the statistic, first of all how do you think they define 1 AA round? as the type maxes or skyguards(20mm cannon?) use? It might be, It might also be from "88" flak cannons, they would probably have the same RoF as a tank cannon (it was also used on tanks), and that picture probably shows an aircraft hit by the "88" flak cannon, not anything with lower caliber.

Because it takes all of 20 seconds for 5+ people to pull AA and completely clear the skies. This was true before the nerfs, though you could still perform decently well by making quick passes and keeping clear of enemy air. Now the lib is useful after the ground has cleared the field and in fights where less than 5 enemies have AA they can pull.

If you really want to blame someone for what happened to your precious vehicle, blame these people:

Lib pilots who dominated 1-12 infantry fights
Lib pilots who (3 and 4 strong) locked down a single spawn room
Lib pilots who sat outside a warpgate for easy kills
Lib pilots who sat on top of a biolab and stuck the belly gun through the roof

These are the people you should be mad at (assuming you are not one of them yourself). These are the people that made the rest of the community hate you. These are the people that provided SOE with the statistical justification they needed to nerf the Lib.

This is probably not a complete list either. Anyone care to add to it?

Go out with a dalton, and you now cannot kill infantry. You are not going to hit a single target. It is not the same as AP rounds in a tank.
The bulldog is the only weapon on the liberator that is half decent at killing infantry. Duster is still completely useless, and the zephyr is outshined by the bulldog. This is not like tanking.
Every ******* and the guy next to them can jump in a vehicle terminal and soak bullets up for you in a tank. It can take over an hour of practice to teach a person how to not crash into the ground and die inside the warpgate. This is not like tanking.

Libs were just barely too good at everything, and now they are good at nothing in particular. The real problem of the lib has always been that they were too prevalent, not that they were too difficult to kill. Granted, they needed a nerf to something, but this blanket nerf is just about as bad as the harasser nerfs a while back. And like the harasser, the devs are gonna move on to something else before it recovers.

The correct balance is for Liberators to be balanced with the other outdoor vehicles in overall worth. They were far above that before. If they're now below that, then they should get buffed again -- but not to their prior state, which was clearly the least-counterable most-powerful vehicle in the outdoor battlefield.

I have no special love for the infantry-only peasants (and they will confirm that.) I just want balance. Balance implies all vehicles are viable outdoors, and all infantry/MAX classes are viable indoors. So nerfs are appropriate for the strongest least-counterable things and buffs are appropriate for the weakest least-useful things (I'd genuinely love to see Flashes become a little better, possibly with some slot items that increase their cost so it's a similarly costly investment to the other vehicles and they're similarly valuable participants.)

I'm mostly mad at people who refused to learn how to fly, so they could A) have more options in countering air and B) understand the limitations and capabilities of air. The ignorance and pigheadedness in this community is astounding.

True, on both sides of the aisle.

Nothing to kill all the tanks camping... you're right there's no way to kill a camping prowler/vanguard/magrider... U make me giggle good sir. Everything in this game can kill a tank. Literally. Except infils who just like to jump on my deployed prowler... kinda annoying really. But infils are virtually useless anyways save in a limited capacity to fulfill a niche role.

That's fair, to a degree, but I disagree with the idea that vehicles should be balanced primarily against each other in 1v1. From what I've seen, that leads to a downward spiral of nerfs that ultimately favors the most popular platform. Rather, vehicles ought to be balanced into performing a role, and sometimes that role should mean that it should reasonably be able to take on multiple targets in favorable conditions. Think of it like an RTS; some units are stronger than others, but they're more costly and are far more important to use optimally. Vehicles like the liberator should be the kind of tool that allows two squads to be able to hold its own against a platoon, so long as they're working together. Unfortunately, the root of the imbalance in every weapon and weapon platform isn't in the weapons themselves, it's in the resource system and the poor strategic/communication/leadership tools. Until those things are overhauled, they will not be able to figure out the correct balance.