[Suggestion] Liberator ammo!

SOE please reconsider the 60% ammo reduction on the belly guns for the liberator.
The guns themselves have already been nerfed but the lack of ammo is just detrimental for any decent air play. Basically in air combat you need to shoot the shredder all the time against an ESF to know your own bullet trajectory, but by just doing this you will be out of ammo so fast that is quite hard to defend yourself against ESFs after you have already lost some ammo in a previous engagement.
Fully upgraded shredder has only 1000 bullets now, engaging one or two ground targets easily leave you with half of that amount.
If you happen to get attacked by an ESF on your way back to the ammo tower at this point you have a high probability of running out of ammo and there is nothing you can do but die at that point.
I played for a few hours in the lib with my friends and it happened several times (even though we went for new ammo VERY often) that the belly gun got out of ammo because we got pulled into an air fight.

My opinion is that even though the lib might still be effective for ground, the reduction in ammo is just terrible for air since that part of the game require A LOT of ammo to be thrown around on both sides.
And since the lib ammo for the belly got reduced so drastically you get into these situations with no way to even simply defend yourself.

PLEASE bring the ammo for the belly guns a bit higher again, having only 40% of the original ammo pre-patch is not sufficient to attack something and then having to defend yourself for whatever reason.

Did you ever think that all the reasons you just listed was THE POINT of the ammo nerf?

Your counter is now actually able to counter you? UNACCEPTABLE!

Dont get into A2A battles in your A2G vehicle and perhaps get a ESF escort to defend you. There, fixed.

Couldn't have said it any better myself, libs are fine after the update...

You know they put rearm towers and pads in the game for a reason, now you have to use them, I for one fully support the change

Now you have as much ammo as any ground vehicle. An AP lightning starts off with a little over 20 shots, and they can't resupply so easily, or escape combat.

But aircraft are not supposed to be on a fair field as other vehicles! They must be superior in every way!

...apparently

Lib is not to be compared to a tank, if anything at all it should at least be on par with how much ammo an ESF has to have any chance of surviving when you get in an air battle.
The point of the nerfs was to stop libs from farming ground, if anything at all this will force libs to be mostly on the ground since the nerfs are worst for air combat.
Its in the air combat that most bullets get thrown around and going back to an ammo tower is not possible when your under attack.
There needs to be more then only 40% ammo, the belly guns are literally under performing compared to the back guns with this patch.

And ESFs are not our only counter, basically anything and everything can counter libs so we should not have such a huge ammo disadvantage when it comes to air combat.

And I can understand that the lib as OP before the patch, but having a tripple nerf that puts its way in the UP category is not balancing anything.
Now please give some decent comments and not some childish responses.

You said it right there, the belly gun wasn't intended to be the prime A2A weapon, that's the buttguns job.

Moin

/facepalm
You don't actually fly, do you? People where complaining that Liberators where only "farming", now that's the only thing left to do for them. Pulling a Liberator now only makes sense to farm some already won battle where you have enough support that you can't get jumped and killed by enemy ESFs and where you have an ammo sundy nearby. But getting ammo is risky for an aircraft, especially after the nerf against tankshells and dumbfires.
SOE did the same thing they did with the Harasser: They nerfed too many things at once. In my opinion the armor reduction was already enough, but they heavily nerfed all the (relevant) bellyguns too AND reduced the ammo capacity by a huge amount.
Can you still have some fun in a Liberator? I think some people can. Is it still rewarding? I'm not so sure.

I wonder what's the next thing peasants cry about.

Going to play on the fence here...

IMO the ammo capacity was nerfed so heavily b/c libs would just hover over a spawn for the whole cap timer shelling constantly. This makes them go back and gives infantry a chance to flip the point.

Even though I don't fly libs much I do agree that the Nerf was very heavy handed. In my mind this Nerf will be detrimental b/c people will get annoyed with the constant in and out of battle. Having to go re-arm every few min b/c of low ammo cap is boring. IMO most players will not learn ammo conservation but will just get annoyed and stop flying.

Lib behavior is typically curb stomp some small fight for farming and then run for the hills like road runner when they meet something on the ground that can bite back, then they repair and come back at full health with mobility that no ground unit can match that or they stick around shelling everything that moves while rarely having to resupply ammo.

I call the nerfs poetic justice. you love running away scot free when you are damaged so soe has said hey since you like running away so much we've reduced your ammo so you have to resupply more and you actually have to be wary of your counters instead of unconcerned.

The difficulty of flight in this game makes you feel like you are better then ground pounders and that balance shouldn't apply to you?

I hope you have enjoyed your wakeup call. you were making tons of kills and certs with little risk to yourselves.

Ammo was nerfed so hit-run-repair-hit strategy had some limit. Resupplying is much easier for lib that MBT and now if you want to make impact at first fly, you should bring few libs+esfs. 4 libs have enough ammo to wreck tank column.
Say no to rambo-libs.

Yo, dawg, we heard you like running away...

Wow you are really working to earn sympathy from the playerbase at large for this nerf to your highness.

Answering with 'you obviously dont fly do you' has absolutely NOTHING to do to know what its like to get farmed.

You obviously havent spent enough time OUTSIDE a liberator to know just have ridiculous it was.

Maybe you should get a ESF escort to defend you?
Like how we always need dedicated AA to defend us?

If you thought Libbing was super hard before the nerf then I have bad news, you were terrible at it. Because alot of pilots farmed to high heaven and rarely died.

hey guys if any of you guys have read my posts on the forum before then youll know there is coming a big chunk of information and such. for the once that dont know that, here is the warning

for those who are not prepared to read or not willing to read it all and post stupid comments about it while not knowing the entire story
just dont read. constructed feedback is what we need on forums like these.




alright here we start.

like we all know the lib has been nerfed in the resistance, damage output and in the ammo capisity.
this has been dont because all the spawncampyness that liberators tend to have a large role in.

now is the question has SOE done the right thing??
well no not at all. the resistance nerf was a good set on their part. cause getting hit with decimators should be hitting you hard. AP rounds were slightly too good before but SOE has overdone the buff as well. the splash damage of the dalton has been nerfed too much. I agree that it should be smaller and deal less damage and dont really care about the non damaging splash to vehicles anymore. but here is the point. SOE dont want us to spam whats their solution nerf ammo capisity and make the zephyr an anti INFANTRY weapon more versitile and more of a middle ground weapon wich causes more spam on the long term. next up is the insanely low ammo count on every bellygun.


lets take for example the beloved dalton.

20 rounds max upgraded 40
6-8 shots to kill a sundy calculate some misses in and you spend 7-10 shots on one sundy...
thats one forth of your total maximum ammo capisity.

SOE tries to make the air gameplay more accesible for new pilots well thats a nobble idea of them but here is the big catch

AIR is and wil ALWAYS be the most inaccesible part of the game because the high cert requirement and skill to even operate the thing in the first place. without a good airframe you can forget to win a lot of airduels especially if you lack te skill to back it up. so that will be 700 certs to get one airframe maxed. then youll need to upgrade your body even further. then you basically have comp armour and NARS for NARS you will have to put in 1000 certs to max it out and comp armour 630 certs. they youll need a good utility so lets say the cheap fire surpression wich costs a total of 830 to max out. that is a total of around 2300 certs to even get the body of the lib. this is a huge investment for a new pilot. then add the lackk of skill upgrades for weapons and dominance of anti air in bigger battles.

then you can also add the newly catch of needing to max out the ammo capisity to be even able to get a fight going else your gona be on the way back to ammo before you excually started.


the duster is getting massive splashes and can finaly fill its intended role but yeah killing infantry purely ... wonder how much flame that would give us pilots and gunners.





I completely agree that liberators are too powerfull in smaller battles but on the flipside they cant even get close to larger battles cause almost everyone has lockons, skyguards are strong as hell (just ask if you want my explenation for that as well cause there are may missconceptions about the skyguard (that it should be able to kill a lib at his own is one of them)) and of course other aircraft of the enemy faction.

but what i would have dont is do something out of the box. not a nerf or buff just implement a base turret wich fires something like a 3 round burst of hard hitting basilisk rounds. the turret should be doing its own thing and have a shield protecting it (just one extra shield generator) just let the turret have a cilinder like range. let it reach out till about 500meters and infinately high. its damage should be limited and just prevent you from staying there forever. since its protected by a shield you cant kill it from the air. once the battle grows and there start to come more defenders the turret(s) will lose damage or even disable themselfs. would this be a strange thing to do
yeah yeah it makes no sence to let the turret disable itself if there are more defenders but it will however make the game more balanced. by the way it should only shoot at liberators and galaxys.


lets set the weapon nerf and resistance nerf aside and take a look at the ammo again

the ammo capisity is so incredibly low that the helpfull things like taking out zergs (one of the main selling points of a lib) and this is extremely hard to acomplish now cause by the time you have resuplied the zerg has healed itsself again.

and believe me a big vehicle zerg is equally or even worse then a couple of liberators.


why???
well this is why
repair sundys ammo sundys
HE spamming couple of anti air and anti tank units and youve got yourself a big zerg. this will puch forward till youve got a good trap set up on a chokepoint or till you make your own.

grabing a liberator and taking them out one by one is impossible since in the daltons case youve only got 40 rounds (wich cant be replenisched by sundys that easily)

IF soe wants to keep this overdone ammo nerf then add ammo galaxys so you can at least bring teamwork into the game. repair galaxys however should not be done.


for those that want to know yes you can still have fun in a lib and still be effective but its not on the place were it has to be.





youve got

OP



balanced

lib is standing here now

UP


if this gets messed up what i try to tell here above is that liberators are a bit underpowered right now.

now is my question for you guys

WHAT should be done to bring the lib to the balanced spot come up with small things like tweeking thins around or with silly lil stuff wich can bring the lib more inline with the other vehicles


for the once that made it this far thank you for reading and have a nice day

They should just make it like the Thundersword bomber from Tribes 2 and be done with it. 2 crew with an additional slot for a MAX(that sits on top) and bombs instead of a gun.....no hovering => no hover camping....no high alpha+AoE direct fire(why must everything in PS2 be direct fire!?) => fewer silly AA moment and long distance spam and run.

This would me an acceptable response IF the liberator was a dominant force against ground targets, however considering the fact that the liberator is largely ineffective in the hands of MOST pilots, against ground targets, and is EASILY warded off or killed by ground based AA, I would say that nearly everything , with the correct damage type, counters the lib. this means that ammo should not be nerfed for the sole reason of leaving the lib completely defenseless against other aircraft.

the lib is NOT an A2G vehicle. Its designed to be as such, but is NOT balanced in this regard. instead its a well rounded vehicle that competes against everything fairly evenly, and yo-yo's between being effective against its targets, to being useless, as patches come out. This is because whoever designed the liberator, was so incredibly short sighted, that they did not understand how such a horrendous design was literally impossible to balance correctly. there is only one demographic which consistently gains ground in the fight against the liberator and this demographic grows more dominant with every patch, and that group is the infantry combat.

You can resupply at a sunderer equipped with an ammo dispenser.



I'm more sceptical about the Zepher nerf than the ammo reduction.

Liberators rationalized them being OP was the fact it required two people to effectively man a lib.

"Team effort" they said!

But in reality it's B.S. because that's not teamwork. Two people in two different vehicles working together is teamwork.

You tell a liberator to run with a ESF and they loose their ******* minds! Well guess what, that IS teamwork and you now have to do that or get farmed like all the other lone wolfs out there.

P.S. ESF got nerfed against ground too to "better define the liberator as the primary A2G vehicle" so stop acting like sony is picking on you.

So why should liberators not be allowed to get a kill and then fly away, I just don't understand why libs should not be able to outlive a bombing run, you think it's fun and balanced if pilots get to pull a liberator, go into a battle with 2 other players, fire a gun 4-10 times before you die, hope you get a kill and then reapeat after 10-15min?
Is that even flying tbh? feels more like catapulting yourself into death.

And what's wrong with the liberator "farming"(why can't you say kill? is it because air is just so unfair?) ground units, is that not its intended purpose? should it go capture some control point or spawn infantry or resupply units? "curb stomp some small fight" uhh hello? your complaining about the player not being a noob and flying into a giant zerg?, ofcourse he is gonna fly somewhere where you can make a difference and not get killed instantly, But hey that's what I said would happen over a year ago with libs.
When you limit it to small fights ofcourse it's gonna stay there, total idiocracy.(I'm not saying it should be more powerfull I'm just stating the action/reaction)

If people wanna discuss air balance then you should probably try flying sometime because it's not so easy as you think, in countless threads, the strict infantry and tank players openly thinks that air should be almost instaggibed by flak cannons etc., no you strict infantry players and tankers are not biased at all, it's just pilots that are biased and anyone who tries to defend it.

"I hope you have enjoyed your wakeup call. you were making tons of kills and certs with little risk to yourselves." ignorence is bliss I guess, you don't think pilots die? hahaha oh and btw having a high k/d ratio and earning certs is way easier in a tank, you're still dreaming.