Let's talk game rules that are not really game rules.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Commandoo, Aug 25, 2019.

  1. Commandoo

    So as the title says. And I'm talking unofficial rules like destroying sundies or farming them, zerging etc. Let me explain.

    So I got rather annoyed with my outfit and NC in general on my server ceres because some are against the idea of Sundy hunting and zerging

    A few examples of this was when I was told no help would arrive to my location because that would be classed as zerging and wrecks the game for others, all because NC had the biggest population! And I got told to stop farming sundies the other day when I was trying to stop a damm base from being taken over! Another good one is Bringing out a max when you have high population, one guy said if he sees somebody do that on his TR faction he would team kill it! Then you have VS bringing out a max crash when they have biggest population and everybody cries but vs don't care! In fact I don't care! Do what you like it's the game!

    I literally done care! We get zerged all the time and I don't crunch numbers when looking to defend! I look at how badly we are being *** whopped and then ask for help! I don't look at how the ratio is going and think " well we are 2.2 not 2.1 so better not ask for help! Or this base has 2 mins left, better leave the sundies where they are because that would be farming sundies!

    I literally stopped playing over the weekend and all because rules like these rather annoy me. Torn between joining another server but my connection is bad at high pop times. I would literally give my right arm for an actual outfit who just plays the game! Or a faction that just doesn't give to craps!

    1 good example was I got told no reinforcers would arrive to my location, then I get a team of guys with max from vs and we get wiped off the map. Eventually gettting pushed back to warp gate!

    Apparently this is a respect thing among all the top clans? Is it really?
    • Up x 1
  2. OneShadowWarrior

    I stopped driving Sunderers, they have always been junk since the first Planetside, they can’t climb or drive for beans, have to many blind spots, got nerfed so bad with limited deploy zones, they are oversized as a AMS and the stealth cloaking bubble is so obvious they are even easier to spot than a Sundy with a deploy shield with good Camo.

    The original AMS was the size of a ANT with a far smaller cloaking bubble and served a better purpose and it didn’t even have weapons on it.
  3. vonRichtschuetz

    Usually those "rules" are made up by people when it's to their benefit or fits their agenda.

    This especially is true when it comes to killing sundies. Some people like to complain if you kill their Sunderers, it kills the fight, yet the same people have no problem to rush all Sunderers with a group of AP lightnings.

    Just two days ago on Miller NC attacked Echo Valley Substation and had 80% pop at some point. TR responded and successfully defended. During the fight it was mostly like 55:45ish. After the fight was over and some of the NC already left the hex - therefore TR having 80% pop now - an NC wrote something like "great gameplay TR, just zerg".
    When it was to their benefit, they didn't complain about a zerg - when it was against them, they did. It's the same with those "rules".

    I've seen my share of rage teamkills, but teamkilling to keep balance seems weird.
    • Up x 4
  4. ZDarkShadowsZ

    People will complain when things don't go their way. You will notice that these kind of people never complain when the tables have turned and they're the ones winning. This kind of thing happens on all servers, amongst all 3 factions.

    On Cobalt, every time TR start winning a fight it's always the same thing, 'Can't win without zerging eh TR?', 'TR always need overpop to win.', 'Here comes the famous TR MAX crash'. I've been playing this game for 6 years and it's always the same comments, the same jibes. Even during alerts and TR fights the faction that isn't in the lead, 'Looks like you want X to win, huh TR?', 'Omg stupid TR fight X, they're the ones going to win!'.

    As for destroying Sunderers, keep doing what you're doing. On my server, I do the exact same thing. Unless I'm in the mood to work towards a weapon aurax or a directive, I'm most likely spending my time hunting enemy spawns. I don't care how many people will whine and complain, or make comments about my tactics or methods. If they don't like me playing the game how it's meant to be played, that's their problem not mine.

    Whenever people whine too much in chat, I put them straight on ignore. Even if their whining isn't directly towards me, I don't care to see that kind of negativity and behaviour in the chat.

    All in all, people will always complain. People don't like to lose because losing makes people feel uncomfortable and doesn't provide entertainment. Keep doing what you're doing, you get a +1 from me.
  5. adamts01

    I'm one of those who supports such "rules". My only agenda is having a competitive fight. I'm a 220# Marine and can handle myself, but I still carry a gun and have zero problems pulling it in a fist fight. That's real life. This is a silly game, and if there's no competition then there's no point. I don't fly with stealth and give most targets a warning shot. If I were an actual pilot I'd want them dead beyond visual range without them knowing what hit them. What are you here for if not a challenge?
  6. FateJH

    To have fun.

    I don't need a constant, artificially-induced sense of challenge to achieve that.
    • Up x 1
  7. JohnnyWayne

    The challenge is the fun. If you want to hold hands and dance instead, go play hello kitty online....
    • Up x 1
  8. Commandoo

    My outfit told me that if I start s Zerg I'm out, I said that if I'm asking for help on a base I expect it, not for people to turn round and go well it's 1.1 at the moment if we come over it will be less fun for the enemy making it 2.1. I said I don't crunch numbers I just play the game!

    I feel like outfits with people who use cross faction accounts could be the issue here! Telling people not to do this and that in an outfit because it's to suit the other faction.

    I sundie hunt to kill team fights at important bases that we need to defend, and kill sundies if a base we are attacking has sundies up to protect generators or something. I try to keep a fight sometimes but honestly if I leave sundies up they take the base and we lose it most of the time.

    Some guys in NC was telling us not to bring out a max because we have good population but then vs max crash with more pop than anybody and goes well it's the game! And I agree that these rules only apply to some when it suits them. But I don't get why my own outfit is trying to play by the unofficial rules. All I put that down too is cross faction accounts.
  9. adamts01

    That's absolute nonsense. Half the people who switch factions are farming alert rewards, and the other half are looking for a good fight. All of them are doing their best. I go so far as to share my tricks when leading platoons on my alts, and regularly reach out to enemy pilots to help train them. These "rules" are simply players doing their part to make the game better by striving for healthy competition.

    Say there was a cooed football game, and all the guys chose to team up against the girls. Call it artificial, but choosing not to zerg is the same as making a rule that half the football team needed to be women. How long do you think women would otherwise keep playing football? They wouldn't, and then the guy's team would have no one to stomp. It's the same reason I don't use Coyotes in the air and don't join in when a lone ESF attacks my superior numbers, if I were to have them. I'd rather keep that enemy ESF flying so I'd have something to do instead of keeping the enemy locked out of the air.
  10. FateJH

    I'm uncertain whether you misunderstood my position with this thread or not. I'm not here for a childish exchange of casting insinuations of buffoondom. You are free to pursue whatever self-imposed limitations you wish to, as long as you don't mind me playing the game within its ruleset according to my own self-impositions, if any.
    This is what they chose to do according to your scenario. The men and (especially) women agreed to these conditions otherwise they would not have played at least the single game that you suggest they did. I only claim the latter part because an outcome was obviously determined ("keep playing" as opposed to just "play"). Moreover, the only way you deem this situation something worth condemning is that the guys have to win (thrash) and the girls have to hate it but no one can change, say, or do anything otherwise.

    Since you seem to think winning is most important in the situation, let me tweak your hypothesis. What if the girls's team won? or what if people had fun with whatever their lot was in that game anyway? After-all, win or lose, it's just that: a game.
    That's fine, as long as you don't aggressively denigrate anyone on either side that doesn't seem to abide by those rules you have constructed around the game's realm of possibilities. Keep flying straight. What disciplines you would follow are none of my concern because that's what you find fun.

    Competition is what you find fun.
  11. Scroffel5

    I can understand both viewpoints. I tell people to not destroy the enemy sundy when it is like 3v3 or 5v5, when its basically a stand still and nothing is going on and there is nothing to really do. I do it so a fight keeps going, but people still destroy the sundy anyways. I don't get mad at them, because they don't care about you or anyone else online.

    I do tell NC to not zerg, for a few reasons really. I view NC as pretty much good guys, as compared to every other faction. Zerging seems like an underhanded thing to do, imo. Its something that would be a go-to strat for good guys. Another reason I say not to zerg is when it is unstrategical to do so. We should be sending troops out to as many bases as possible and taking them at the same time, not spooning all of them into one base. Whenever NC does that, I have to remind them that we are losing bases every time we gain one. I also tell them not to zerg to encourage other alternatives. If zerging is our go-to strat, what are we gonna do when it doesn't work? How are we gonna push the meta? We need to come up with something better than zerging if we want to win. We need to work like a real life military, planning accordingly. We need to come up with new plans, new maneuvers, and counter attacks to other faction plans that we have analyzed. We need to teach players how to fly, how to work in squadrons of aircraft and ground vehicles, how to use vehicles correctly, how to approach situations correctly, and how to work with randoms who aren't in squads.

    Zerging does not encourage that. It encourages the "do whatever" mentality. Just go out there and do whatever. Squads do squad things, randoms do whatever. I want to push effectiveness and productivity, and I don't really care if anyone says I'm expecting too much. I want our factions to be the best. Have any of you ever played football? They run different plays, usually. They may have a go-to play, but they also have a backup plan too. They may also have plays for special purposes or to combat defense in the formation they are taking. That is what I want for Planetside. A specific faction may have a go-to play or formation, but that just means the other factions have to recognize what is taking place, analyze it, and plan accordingly.

    All in all, we have a lot of control of what we can do in the game. So lets do what we can with it to make it that much more amazing. Anyone who doesn't want to pursue progress, I really hope you get bored of the game and leave.
  12. JibbaJabba

    Let's not overcomplicate it. Distill all these rules down and you get: Sportsmanship.

    That's ultimately what it's about. Also, most of the unwritten rules simply do not apply to noobs. Veterans know where the balance issue are in the game and if they are being good sports will avoid them. Noobs get a free pass.

    If you are winning because your commander executed some tactical brilliance, caught the enemy commander off guard, and ends up with an overpop at a base? So what. Good on him.

    If your commander is winning just through sheer population alone: It's crappy sportsmanship. You guys are bored and your enemies do not have a sporting chance.

    Weapons and tactics:
    There are certain weapons the vets know about. Again, noobs get a free pass. But these include things like: Pulling a max at an overpop. Doing a banshee/airhammer farm at some overpop, using phoenixes from the spawn room. etc. etc.

    If you are a noob, knock yourself out. If that's the only way you can win, then win that way. For vets though it's gonna get frowned upon and you won't see any respect.

    Playing the map:
    Your goals may not alin with others. Some are out to have fun. Some are playing the alert. Some are playing for a particular style of fight. Some are simply farming. If you want people to do your playstyle it's up to you to convince them.
    • Up x 1
  13. adamts01

    You cometely missed the mark. If winning was all I cared about, then I'd zerg every base and spam Coyotes. No challenge, simply domination. What if the girls won at football? You missed the point again. The situation is that the girls simply can't win, and neither can those who are zerged. The girls would lose so terribly that they wouldn't even get a chance to start to fight. I do like to win, but if it's a good fight then I'm OK losing. And that's the point. That's the entire purpose of these "rules". Go ahead and win, but do so in a way that lets the other team and yourselves at least have some sort of fight.

    As for aggressively criticizing other "pilots", hell yes I will. Consider VS rep gal spam during air alerts. At least that's the norm on Connery. No other faction has the numbers who care about this alert, and they stack gals to the point there's zero resistance. How more pathetic can they be? That's like stacking a platoon of HESH tanks outside a spawn room with a single dude inside. It's the same as Don Alfrego and his little air squad of betas. The whole point of any game is competition, and if there's no competition then soon you'll have no game.

    Those criticizing these cheesy tactics are basically taking the future of the game in to their hands because Daybreak is too inept to balance certain thing. This game is dying, and we're at the point that the players have to start doing their part because the devs simply can't fix things. It's just like private servers that mix teams if one side gets stomped. They realize that without balance they'll soon have an empty server.
  14. FateJH

    Your argument is they'll lose because they're girls? what sort of elementary playground chauvanism have I waded my way into?
    And what of this Air game? That part, if nothing else, has been worked and ground down to a fine competitive powder at its core, unwavering but so pure that it is virtually unscalable. Despite that, and ignoring things like Don Alfrego and whatnot, why does it not attract the great flocks of the players who have remained loyal, jingoistic to be sure, to the game, even if they only get together in small like-minded enclaves? The game may have a decent pilot retention to it, for howevere many are pilots, but it also has at least an equal amount of over-all derision from the rest.
    If competition was the end-all-be-all that you make it out to be, we'd all be flying competitively to stave off our frustrations, use it as a refuge from the wild irregulaity of the remainder. Many won't even touch the mechanic in any serious way.

    Do you think Don Alfrego's flock is waning from or wallowing in the lack of competition they themselves have created?
    Oh, no, not criticism. I was thinking more along the lines of teamkilling at one end of reprehensible behavior or a widespread player ostracization at the other end.
    There hasn't been any attempt at balance in this game that has brought about meaningful population retention. The devs haven't been able to do it; the players haven't been able to foster it.
    • Up x 1
  15. adamts01

    As far as women go, they sin ly can't compete against men at certain things. Just look at the trannies that we're allowed to compete against women cleaning house. That's just a fact of life. I didn't mean to hit a chord with that, it was simply an analogy.

    And yeah, no balance has retained new players. In the air it's because none of the devs fly. They simply don't understand that part of the game. And what's been done for infantry? A tutorial? Come on. The simple reasons new players can barely contribute is the ADAD spam headshot twitchy nature of Infantry combat. It's not that damage can come from anywhere at any time, it's that becoming proficient at landing headshots in a laggy twitchy target takes a lot of skill and practice, more than the majority of this game's player's have. But against the Reddit hive's desire, the solution is lessening the gap between body and headshots, maybe adding momentum to infantry movement, enforcing a ping limit, and generally making meaningful hits more attainable.

    And that VS air zerg is long gone. For one, they lost their crunch weapon (air locks), and two, they got bored and simply quit the game. That's exactly what happens when there's zero struggle. Victory means nothing and things get stale fast.
  16. Scroffel5

    I like how Jibba said it. It's about sportsmanship. There are two views in life: social darwinism and social gospel. Social Darwinism is basically a "dog eat dog" world. Do whatever you have to to win. Win at all costs. You get the idea. Then there is social gospel. You help out those who are less fortunate than yourself, be kind, ect. Playing a win at all costs game inside of a game is stupid, because we change the balance. In real life, you can't change the balance, which is why people rationalize it as OK. In a game, some things are just so stupid and unfair. Why should we be jerks and exploit that? That drives people away, and the thing is, that is OK for the bad guys. Why should the good guys stoop to their level? No one wants to be the good guys. No one wants to be the smart guys. They want to be the strong guys. They want to win. They will do anything to win, no matter how cheesy or easy it is, but they rarely do the thing that is harder. Is it that there are no good guys in war, real or fake?

    The unwritten rules aren't a bad thing. They limit some of the playerbase from doing things they deem as wrong, things that are wrong. If everyone played by the unwritten rules and used a sandbox to its full potential, the game would improve. Imagine a game where no zerging unless it was strategic, or no spawn camping, or no sundy spam for the already super high pop, or no max crashes, or no vulcan harrassers. Doesn't it sound good? Who knows, it could be too good to be true, but it does sound good. Imagine a game where there are the elite, a group who are leaders who plan for battles, who use tactics and strategy to the max, and who can organize a group of noobs into a squadron of death. Imagine a base that is designated for strategical use, where squad, platoon, and outfit leaders unite to discuss battle plans and endgame goals. Imagine that. Imagine secret code words for executing plays, only spread orally. Imagine a game where you can hear the enemies talk strategy because of your amazing recon abilities, and you can send the message back to your faction so you know what they are gonna do. (Btw, why the heck can't we hear other factions mic chat? I guess it would be abused, but that would make epic recon advantages/disadvantages. Stalkers could then be used to gather info on squads, and that in itself would be amazing. Imagine Flashes being used as faithful steeds for Infiltrators to get a good distance away from a platoon in an armor column and to listen to their plan. Cool, right?)

    Imagine, a better war game.
    • Up x 1
  17. Commandoo

    I can kinda see what these unofficial rules are now but to think inside a box and do that unofficial rule stuff is kinda meh!

    If a place is being taken over, you sundie hunt then go after cap! This is especially NC starts because otherwise we get pushed back to warp gate!

    If you are being overrun at an objective just max crash it. f. Population just go in guns blazing because even with decent population we are weak because of all the new players we have!

    The server I play on has rules for 1 then other clans and factions break em. For example bringing out a max at very high population! Factions do it but when we do it we get moaned at. I kinda get these rules but in an ideal world it only works if everyone does it and they don't do so that's that!

    I killed 4 sundies the other day as a light assault and then some! If I'm stopping that attack then great! I don't expect medals just to stop the advance!

    Maybe when I'm a bit more experienced I will stick to them but for now I'm all into the win and stopping us getting pushed back to warp gate.
  18. Johannes Kaiser

    Interesting read here. :)
    Destroying sundies? Okay in my book, that is how you successfully defend. You blow up my sundie, I'm not mad, promise.
    Zerging? Eh, my personal definition of real zerging begins at ~3v1 ratio, no matter if attacking or defending. I never join attacking zergs (unless lanes force me to or I happen to accidentally end up in one, then I leave asap), and I loathe people who only ever attack bases with a full platoon and ample air support, knowing full well there are maybe half a squad's worth of defenders. That's no fun for either side. Calling for help when defending is absolutely fine, it just becomes annoying if the response is extremely disproportioned (I like to link THIS), but that is often enough not the fault of the person who called but the fault of the amount of squad leaders who all simultaneously decided "yep, let's do that".

    So call for backup and destroy spawns all you like, that is how this game plays.
  19. adamts01

    - It's not "thinking inside a box". It's mostly vets who go by these rules to better the game. Trust me, they k ow more tricks than you.

    - That's like saying there's no point in putting trash in a trash can because so many people litter. The more people working towards a better game the better. Maybe one day the devs will catch on and limit some of the cheese.
  20. GhostAvatar

    I absolutely detest these types of people. They are nothing but scum. Fine, you got your way of playing the game, enjoy it. But don't expect others to play by the same self imposed rules as you do (looking at you pilots). And if you have a problem with it, then its a you problem.

    As some who has played since beta. I can say these rules are trash and meaningless. Never made sense to me from the very start. Everyone has fun in their own way.
    • Up x 1

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