K/D All servers all factions.(repost from reddit).

Come on. Of course the only reason is that we are N00BZ and need to L2P!
No other response is valid on forumside.

Just a quick clarification; is this the average KDR (i.e. add all KDRs of all players and divide by number of players) or the Total Kills divided by Total Deaths?

If it's the former (I assume), the latter might also add some interest to the discussion?

I'd like to see the median KDR as well as the standard deviation please, since we're going all statistician on forumside. Seriously, these numbers don't tell the whole story. I know for a fact NC has some good to great outifts on Connery.

Ofc TR Miller has a higher average KDR. We have an abusive Daddy

KDR is a stupid way to measure a balance problem. All it takes is a bunch of late-night bumrushes to ruin that statistic.

Seriously, how does that guy stay alive? Does Miller not have random vanu AA platoons?

Not hating on any faction, just want to say that before I post so there's no one thinking I'm being sarcastic or trolling.

I'm just curious to know the unique player statistics as well from each faction on each server. That would give a more clear picture even if it doesn't paint the whole picture. Debating with only the K/D stats seems kinda arbitrary.

I think you're rating of 'usefulness' is slightly misleading.

The purpose of this thread is clearly to point out that -whatever the matter is- -something is the matter-. Average KPH is definitely not useful for this. Then we just end up in 'Yeah but look at the difference in KPH between the VS Lib and the NC Lib' 'Uhhh, but the GD-7F pwns' etc.

The empire K/D disparity may come down to a single change (as has already been suggested, AI vehicles are likely to have a HUGE effect on this stat); all this thread is doing is pointing out that -some- kind of change is needed, and that blanket denying that is borderline ridiculous.

The next step, once it's possible to start a thread about Average KPH and KPU without just being trolled throughout with 'NC CRY MOAH' type responses, is to start to pin down possible weaknesses in the NC arsenal, or overperformance in the TR/VS arsenal (it could be that the Prowler is OP AI, artificially inflating the Empire K/D for TR, whilst ZOE is OP AI, artificially inflating the Empire K/D for VS, for example. Then the solution might be to nerf the Prowler AI and ZOE, rather than give NC an area to overperform at infantry farming).

Most people cannot read three dimensional datasets for outliers and trends, as you (I'm assuming from your desire for more metrics) and I can. Things have to go one dimension at a time, or people just resort to the normal outclassed 'L2P everything's fine' defences. First, 'There is a problem, we don't know what it is.' Next 'It could be this, that, or the other.' Next 'The other appears to only be relevant in 5% of encounters, that is generally relevant but only marginally so, whereas this. This needs attention'.

NC is hardmore. you smurfs got my respect



now lets get back to slaughtering you muahahaha

Its becoming a comedy act.
How much more data do they need to see the problem with NC ?

But no guys im sure that every single player in NC just needs to l2p duh .

First: I don't know how large the sample size is or how complete it is not even the time period 1 day? 1 week? 1month? since release?. If it's taken from stats.dasanfall.com it's about 85% incomplete. Eg. a very large outfit from Cobalt VS called Trident with 2400 members got 5 players tracked on DA the other 2395 are not even crawled.

Second: All the stats are within the standard derivation expect Cobalt VS.
K/D overall should be around 1.0, accounting suicides and Teamkills where no one is rewarded a kill but only a death. As it is an "all players" statistic I go with 10-15% suicide/tk rate so we end up with a 0.900-0.850 normalized average K/D


Third: Yes I see the NC lack kills but I don't see a huge difference that proves there is really something off that is not widely acknowledged . Even if I take the biggest gap, 827 kills/1000 deaths Mattherson NC and 1019 kills /1000 deaths Cobalt VS the difference is 192. Down to a single life that's 0.192 kills more. That's the difference where Light PPA vs Enforcer Modified on the Harasser is sufficient as explanation.

VS and TR are almost on the same level with we all know it there outdoor infantry farming capabilities (ZOE, Marauder, Prowler as AI Skeet shooting platform, light PPA-H... They all rack up infanterie kills, can take a beating so they die seldom). It's not that TR/VS are OP but NC is missing is a mobile outdoor infanterie killing option aka SOE FIX THE ENFORCER MODIFIED ALREADY!

Correct, but it would isolate causality. Which was the point.

It seems like you just said the same thing I did, then quickly reversed your position to disagree when you realized I'd said it. Giving you benefit of the doubt, I'm going to assume you were thrown by the phrase "sufficient experience". I just mean throw out outliers like people who only made a BR1 to collect the WDS weekly prize. Other than that I'm really not sure how you could disagree with me after saying the same thing.

Sure, in the same way that Heroin isn't a bad drug, it's only bad when in the hand of addicts.

Epidemiology is bad, because it encourages people to jump to conclusions because it's easier and faster. Even if the scientists doing the research understand the limits of their conclusion, a great many people reading the conclusion will not.

Well then they're going to do it, so what are you worried about? You're willing to embrace the explanation that's probably true. So why be hostile at people who want to solidify that "probably"?

Since I don't think anyone else has brought up this angle, I'll take the other side myself:

But Amarsir, even if true does that really matter? The goal of the developers is to create a competitive three-way fight. If one side is handicapped, even if through their own choices, the result is an imbalanced conclusion. Game devs aren't objective scientists, they are gods who shape reality to their will. They should make what changes are necessary to yield the desired final result, and if improving NC weapons accomplishes that there's no benefit to poking holes.

shotgun slugs? I don't know as I've not used them, but I read somewhere that slugs don't have bullet drop on the VS. Is this true?

That's a good point. You're a wise man. However, people's selections are more easily shifted than underlying rules. If the mechanics are changed to compensate for a self-selection bias, and then people self-select differently as a result of the new mechanics, the net change will appear exaggerated and cause further changes.

Specifically, what happens if you buff NC weapons and the best TR and VS players (not all, just enough to be statistically significant) start playing NC more because they want to use the new weapons? Not only would it shift the self-selection makeup, but it would also raise the population of NC. This would cause the server to push new players toward TR and VS in compensation. Suddenly NC would start looking overpowered and there would be cries for nerfs.

In short, when dealing with a positive feedback loop it's important to assess accurately and act carefully because a tipped balance will spiral out. (E.g. 4th faction) The goal IS to have competitive NC factions, not to jerk people around with buffs and nerfs just to look active.

lowest k/d on every. single. server.

even when overpopped

it's astonishing, really.

dear soe
please give nc access to cheap a cqc carbine and lmg like tr/vs have. all this takes is readjusting cert prices - like you have done before.

combined with nerfing the cheese this will go a long way.

How can K/D of all factions not average out to 1? Cause when you kill someone, someone dies, and vice versa. Is teamkilling really that big of a thing?

TKs and Suicides where no one is awarded the kill are good for 10-15% of all kills.
edit:
Keep in mind Suicides in VR Training count to the total, I got there at least 40 suicides from practicing the in flight repair maneuver and testing the limits of the Harasser.

Some clarifications about the data:

1) It's the K/D from the beginning, so it's pretty worthless to judge current balance issues.

2) It tracks people inside outfits, lonewolves have to be manually added I think

3) EU servers were added recently, there are a few issues with the data from them, so don't take the numbers from, say, Cobalt, too seriously yet.

Besides, even if NC is underpowered when looking at the K/D since the last balance patch (data we don't actually have), there's no way to identify the unbalancing factor, what I know is that if the complaint is about the infantry guns, then it's a L2P issue, the Gauss SAW and the EM6 are great weapons, the AF-19 Mercenary is a much better starter weapon than the Solstice (idk about the TR carbine), and they have the same CQC counterparts for both carbines and assault rifles, not to mention you have the only useful heavy weapon, the Jackhammer.

If there is an unbalancing factor right now, my money is on the Harrasser and the MAX.

Want to know the problem. You still have a majority of the Vs and Tr players thinking "nc do more damage".
Let me clear this up for u ignorant people. Nc has the lowest rof weapons on average (ha especially) these weapons should do more damage but in fact they don't.. our highest dps (damage per second) ha weapon does 1676 damage the tr and vs starter weapons do 1886 dps.
I have seen 2 vs in this thread mention "nc has 1 less bullet to kill". It's simply false. That's the problem low rof should benefit from higher damage because of how much harder low rof weapons are to use in medium and close range. But apparently the dev team hasn't played the 500 fps games over the last 15 years to figure this out.

That silliness always appears in every PvP MMO where one faction is doing better (or worse) than the other.

It's the old "L2P defence" (which is basically the "Chewbacca defence" - google it if you don't know it ).


Never, not once, has there ever been one shred of evidence that one factions attracts better/worse, better looking/worse looking, more cooperative/less cooperative players than the other.

It is always, always, always one thing............. GAME BALANCE (it already has been 2-3 times in PS2 with the Magrider, ScatMAX and Striker nerfs).