Ikanam Biolab

Discussion in 'Test Server: Announcements' started by Freeze74, Nov 7, 2014.

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  1. Freeze74 Developer

    Hello Test Server,
    I've recently updated Ikanam Biolab on Amerish to have a slightly different flow. Please check it out and let me know what you think. I would love to hear some feedback on how a large battle at this Biolab plays out, particularly if it is more or less campy than at a standard biolab.

    Thanks!

    Here is a list of changes and what i hope they will accomplish...
    1. Removed the Satellite outposts from the direct combat flow.
      1. Teleporters from Satellites to the Dome are removed.
      2. Jump pad platforms to the Dome are in places between Satellites
      3. All attack paths are now open to all attackers.
    2. Jump pad platforms are one way, to the Dome.
      1. The airpads are a little easier for attackers to control.
      2. Fighting should be spread throughout the Dome, rather than just at the doors.
    3. Removes the dead zones around the old Teleport Rooms.
      1. No more shielded, painfielded Teleport Rooms for attackers to camp (be camped) in.
    4. Adds teleporter choke points at old Teleport Rooms
      1. Faction Neutral teleporters are a high-risk/high-reward way into the Dome.
      2. Attackers can use any teleporter now, not just the one in their Satellite.
    5. Adds a way into the Biolab from the bottom
      1. There is now an entrance at the place where you would expect there to be an entrance.
      2. Neutral teleporters at the bottom prevents either team from feeling secure. Both attackers and defenders have access at all times.
    • Up x 21
  2. DatVanuMan

    Interesting. I'll be sure to check it out!:)
    • Up x 1
  3. vanu123

    Interesting, is this going to be part of an overall redesign of biolabs like what happened w/ amp stations, or will it strictly be ikanam that gets the change?
  4. doombro

    Greetings, this is Test Server. I highly recommend giving this video a view:



    TL;DW, teleporters not being tied to satellites good, everything else bad. Build small building clusters at the legs of the biolab, move teleporters there.
    • Up x 12
  5. Doomzzg

    -Removed the Satellite outposts from the direct combat flow.
    Nothing much to add there
    -Teleporters from Satellites to the Dome are removed.
    More travel time is bad and redundant
    -Jump pad platforms to the Dome are in places between Satellites
    People want to get to the action quickly, this nullifies it, therefore BAD
    -All attack paths are now open to all attackers.
    Yeah, because attacking a biolab is now impossible unless there's a blob of MAXes trying to rush
    -Jump pad platforms are one way, to the Dome.
    See point above where the action is supposed to be gotten to FAST
    -The airpads are a little easier for attackers to control.
    And even easier for defenders to control since there is NO WAY BACK DOWN UNLESS YOU WANT TO SUICIDE
    -Fighting should be spread throughout the Dome, rather than just at the doors.
    This was only in Planetside NEXT. You scrapped it. http://puu.sh/cHAHK/1d5f99d980.jpg
    -Removes the dead zones around the old Teleport Rooms.
    Thank you for wasting potential fighting space
    -No more shielded, painfielded Teleport Rooms for attackers to camp (be camped) in.
    Another reason for attackers to camp the TP rooms infinitely
    -Adds teleporter choke points at old Teleport Rooms
    Those locations are barely choke points at all
    -Faction Neutral teleporters are a high-risk/high-reward way into the Dome.
    Will be camped like the olds ones already are
    -Attackers can use any teleporter now, not just the one in their Satellite.
    Will make it too easy to attack the biolab
    -Adds a way into the Biolab from the bottom
    impossible to get through
    -There is now an entrance at the place where you would expect there to be an entrance.
    Old vehicle bay is now ruined because of this
    -Neutral teleporters at the bottom prevents either team from feeling secure. Both attackers and defenders have access at all times.
    Will be camped regardless. Will clog up regardless. Will be a unnecessary chokepoint.

    TL;DR Clegg is spinning in his office chair
    • Up x 7
  6. Cest7

    I'd suggest removing the windows on the teleporter rooms. There's also a weird box that doesn't really need to be in that room. As higby stated, those TP rooms are gonna get camped real hard.
  7. gary the sewer hobo


    iirc Higby said this will be like the amp stations, where some biolabs stay the same while others get this change. If Ikanam turns out well at least.
  8. DatVanuMan

    Huh.
    I think I'll avoid bio labs nowo_O
    • Up x 5
  9. Hoika

    I'd be OK with the teleporter setup if there was one more way into the BioLab besides them and the two main doors.

    I think an entrance on the top of the bio lab might fit the bill. If the defenders start rage camping the two main doors and portals then they are still vulnerable from the above. If they get an infestation of beacons on the roof, it forces them to go clear them out.

    My biggest grip about Bio Labs currently is that once the Teams have 48-96 then it is over saturated and nearly impossible to take even with POP .
    • Up x 4
  10. RoyAwesome


    I came here to post my video and someone else posted it for me. I guess this is what being popular feels like.
    • Up x 4
  11. doombro

    "Popular" is too positive to apply. I believe the term "infamous" might be more appropriate. :eek:
    • Up x 1
  12. Jaedrik

    I dunno. I like the neutral teleporters, primarily because it forces people to move. I've found that if there are sufficient numbers to push out, then the push out will be pushed regardless of the meat grinder defense. This will more often encourage the sufficient numbers to commit fully to the push. Otherwise, they're useless anyways.
    I am sure they will reduce/remove the no-deploy zone.
    I really hope that [there is some bio lab that becomes] more open. Not big open, but more flat with less vertical clutter, with random cover, and random lines of sight everywhere. Chaotic, big, flat battles. Short, player tall walls, and chest high walls at odd angles everywhere. I don't like the narrow, long lines of sight, nor the cramped short lines of sight. Give me open, long lines of sight, and open, narrow lines of sight. Wait, how does that even?
  13. St0mpy

    all we needed were a few doors around the side of the dome to cut down pad stalemates - once forces are inside its usually a good battle with the design as it is

    I hope the need for slight tweaks doesnt prompt radical changes which simply arent needed.

    "people need change, complain if they dont get it yet give them too much and youll hear more complaining than if you made no change at all"
  14. St0mpy

    Ok after surviving a few idiots who like to treat TEST like a live environment I managed to get to see it from both sides.

    Conclusion: Extemely worrying.

    1- Reducing the vehicle terminal to one tiny shack, exiting in one direction makes it totally predictable where vehicles are going exit creating a single point for attackers in a vehicle to focus on. (just like they do now with spawn rooms)

    Basically the vehicle terminal will be camped, mined and rendered useless as soon as enemy turn up. It will be camped in a way they cannot do now because of defenders having a near 360 view and 4 exits meaning attackers have to hold back and patrol at a distance rather than (on TEST) just camp behind and around single vehicle exit, the exit with such limited visibility we can hide a tank/troops around it.

    Worse, stick a GSD sundy through the shield and just sit there fury/bulldogging the one tele down. (yes it fits, i checked).

    2- Making the 2 all-faction teleports ONLY come from the ground level (where sunderers cant be parked next to the entrance, unlike at satellite bases) makes it even WORSE for flows getting in leaving only the 2 stupid air pads as more of a chokepoint than they are now!

    3- Removing the return jump pads. wth? These work in two phases, first attacking, are we now supposed to jump blind on over to an already (now) even more chokepointed air pad with no way to safe return if its camped? What should we do? Just jump to our death or surrender ourselves to a hail of enemy fire?

    Secondly, defending, once the lab is safe the return jump allows us to take the enemy satellite, are we to walk or run from the air pad now? Now we have to backtrack to get vehicles or just footzerg it like any other base, its reducing options not increasing them.

    -----------------------------

    So lets shortlist this.

    Old Flows back and forth were: Satellite base teleport <> minispawn, Satellite base jump pad <> Air pad, Air pad grav lift.

    All these are accessible by sundys and are not easily camped.

    New flows back and forth: Satellite base jump pad> one way, bio ground level<>2 tele rooms (no sundys), Air pad grav lift as before.

    CONCERNS:

    Its going to increase the air pads as choke points. They are already the major problem and reducing the ability to use satellite bases as anything but a one way lemming jump makes these pads WORSE! Spawning at a satellite and attacking now is way more of a chore than it needs to be.

    If there is to be linking of inner telelporters id like to see that done on a sub level of the main floor, not complete ruination of the base structure. The new no-faction tele mechanic is better for the defenders inside to get out not the other way around.

    EVERYTHING in this redesign is making it easier for defenders and the one extra route (non-faction teles from the ground) for attackers comes at a massive cost of losing so many points where a sundy can park, while not relieving the main problem of biolabs (the long hours of air pad choke).

    Lastly, its sad to see the cool teleport building in the satellite bases have their beam disconnected and the room made empty, its another layer of submersion gone imo.

    I dont want to be funny but Freeze74 I know you do your playtests and your design tests but have you actually spent multiple hours (platoons and lone wolf) either trying to assault, or be inside defending biolabs in prime time? (you can always recognise them, usually cut off from anything useful with 96+ defenders). Try it please. Try and understand where the problem is, because removing fun elements like satellite spawns and breaking up the 2 level nature of a labs defences is hurting the aesthetic as well as doing nothing to break the deadlock we all know as biolabs.
    • Up x 4
  15. Takoita

    ...I have this impossible dream of seeing the day a Biolab won't need any teleporter tubes or jump pads any more.

    On a more serious note, I'll give it a more thorough look-see when I get the chance.
  16. kiberbuddha

    [IMG]
    image share
    Sundy with GSD and farm time under biolab... Many ways to farm this place.
    • Up x 1
  17. kiberbuddha


    Another ikanam bug. This is a teleport room with the crappy big box in.
    ____________________________________
    [IMG]
    Cosmetic bug: too much light. Center of biolab.
  18. VonStalin

    the problem with biolabs is that they cant fit all 98x98 fighters inside.
    They are too small. Designed for 12x12, might be for 24x24 fights but no bigger.

    What you have changed might be ok on 12x12 fight (not better), but on 48x48 that would be madness and cluster*uck because you removed some options, what leads to bigger cluster.

    Removing shields from teleporter rooms is like removing teleporters at all.

    Removing teleporters from connected bases is like removing same meta from the game.

    Teleporter rooms are actually a good thing, don't get rid of them, they help to split up zergs a bit and gives more options.
    Make them bigger, add more ways out of them.

    Something with landing pads has to be done as well, it is really difficult to push through the doors. More options needed.

    You should play biolab fight 98x98 for an hour or more to understand that it is all clustered and limited. More options needed everywhere, not less.
    • Up x 3
  19. Carbon Copied

    Thoughts on bio labs haven't really changed since looking over the iteration; overall it makes me still feel that Bio labs need to increase in size considerably with "tri-domes" (picture being a rough representation) to allow 3 entry landing pad points; cramming players and assets into an already small area was never going to be a smart move. Yes it's great that you can use "the downstairs / vehicle bay" and the landing pad jump pads have gone but it's nothing of any note when the real estate hasn't changed. Players are still funnelled to ill designed, awful choke points like the landing pad bay doors and now instead of encased in a small room you're herded through a teleporter to be mown there instead.

    Biolabs need some form of meaningful under structure that the leg props are currently occupying to actually support meaningful internal gameplay for the numbers that get channelled there. Rough outline possibly being: progressive tiers/levels with capturable hard spawns (mixed with spaced out objectives possibly in the form of SCU/gens etc) occupying the levels for attackers to foothold and possibly REK style controlled landing pad door shields - tiers could even branch off to the landing pad itself via external walkway to outer rim so a gal isn't needed once tier x is secured giving defenders an additional inlet/outlet.

    [IMG]

    My two cents anyway.
    • Up x 12
  20. Exonis

    Did SOE just invent a more efficient bottlekneck-ing choke-point meat-grinder?

    Only live will tell...
    • Up x 3
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