I tried the NC for the first time today, 4 hours later and my verdict.

That's the problem. NC weapons have a higher skill curve to master than either of the other two factions. The average PS2 player can jump into a TR Heavy (CARV) or a VS Heavy (Orion) and be quite effective.

The NC6 Gauss SAW will likely turn players away from the faction because the weapon - at first glance - sucks. Once mastered it's a very effective weapon, of course...

The same can be said of the other NC classes' starting weaponry. All require somewhat of a learning period to excel with them. Not true with the TR weaponry, or the VS weaponry, both of which cater to the full-automatic gunfire prevalent with FPS games.

It's my theory that this feeds back upon itself, causing potential new NC members to jump ship to a different faction where the infantry weapons are more user-friendly.

Yeah Vixen did one of these little "tests" herself and posted the same type of thread. The only difference is that she only played the HA class, which means her experience on other factions besides VS is more limited than the OPs.
Weren't Phoenixs changed so that they can't one shot infantry?

A long long while ago. They now take two shots, minimum, on a default gear character.

The universe where you change the goal posts?

How did you go from the SAW when certed has less recoil than the Orion or Carv to the SAW deals more damage per unit of recoil? Who even measures that?!?!

Switching faction seems to always produce this result. I've spent about six hours on my TR and VS character, and I found them to be easier than NC. That experience doesn't really mean anything though. Most of us remember learning to play on our main faction and try to compare that to a new faction that we test, which is ridiculous. I play as well on my VS and TR as I do on my NC, which leads me to believe that the main difference is that I wasn't learning the game when I tested them. Once you already know the mechanics and terrain, you've overcome the biggest obstacles to success. That said, I find VS and TR to be vastly superior at mid range, with NC generally performing better at close range. The learning skill floor for TR and VS starter weapons is incredibly low, but so is the skill ceiling.

Claiming someone is a troll just because they post an opinion that disagrees with your own is a copout because they don't want to even consider the idea that they may be exaggerating the problem.

Let me explain this one more time. If you are an experienced FPS gamer then you already know how to deal with recoil, you burst fire and adjust your aim quickly. Its not hard to do. The Gauss Saw's recoil is pretty manageable compared to many guns I have used on other games so that is why I say its not even bad. If you can't adjust then the problem is with you, not the gun. I'll tell you what, i'll go on my NC character later and kill a bunch of people at medium and long range just to show you how to deal with recoil.

/thread

The biggest problem with the saw isn't the recoil, but the horrible cof.

C'mon now.
.55 * 500 = 275
.40 * 750 = 300

There is no possible way for the Saw to have more recoil than the Orion or Carv. Thanks to their higher FSR multiplier even if you single tapped shots the Saw would have less recoil.

Now you're trying to cover your ignorance by being overly pedantic and saying that you only meant with one shot. But because of the FSR recoil multiplier you're still wrong.

The saw has very manageable recoil. Deal with it.

At this point I have Mathematically proven you are ignorant or lying.

Where did I put any qualifications on it?! Where did I say the recoil wasn't manageable?! What I did learn was how much I compensate for recoil as an automatic motor skill.

The recoil is actually closer than I thought it was but it's still larger on the SAW. I took a fully certed SAW to VR, went to an opposite end where the ESFs spawns are, used a VS HA with a vehicle ammo resupply point in the background as a starting point (the one near the Magrider). Emptied each gun until there was 10 rounds left. Put the sight on the HA's head and dumped. Did this ~5 times each.

Both the Carv and the Orion reached a little under the blue ammo icon, the SAW reached halfway up the icon and on one occasion the 10th round sailed over the ammo icon. Don't believe me, go test it for yourself.

YES, because EVERYONE is as good as you

The Gauss SAW is no GodSaw. It's a decent weapon when certed and when you learn it. The whole problem is that it's the starting weapon for NC HA's. The TR HA starter (forget it's name) and Orion are laughably easy and are great for beginners. I know it may be hard for yourself as a Vanu to admit that you have it easier They are also very well rounded and adaptable, while the Gauss SAW is not, it's only good in certain situations and horrible for others.

All the weapons in the game kill you in milliseconds so I really don't know why there's is all this envy. I play all three factions pretty much as I get bored easily and there's hardly any diff between them. Basically if you can aim in 0.2 of a second then by 0.7 of a second your target is dead unless they saw you at 0.1 of a second in which case you are dead.

Maybe at range then you start to see diff but in CQC to mid range its all the same IMO.

I found the VS Eidolon Battle Rifle to suit me best simply because of how I play and FPS/lag etc. It still kills an enemy in the same time any other weapon would do - I just can aim and hit better with it as it suits my mouse speed and general game speed.

The NC have awesome music though. I envy them for that.

The SAW requiring too many certs for a starter weapon is certainly a valid critique of the weapon. As is the Saw having a higher learning curve.

But we're almost a year into the game now. The community knows that the Saw is a great gun when certed and used properly. New players can be advised of its strengths and weaknesses. That doesn't mean that in any way the gun is a bad weapon.

Because some people like to blame weapons instead of figuring out what they did wrong.

In fairness considering that was 100% full auto at a fair distance that's a negligible difference. Any sane person would burst fire and the difference would be far less.

You aren't listening. The problem has nothing to do with individual players. It has everything to do with what our platoons and squads can do against enemy squads and platoons. I do just fine too, but that doesn't mean my platoon has a counter for what TR and VS platoons can do with their ES stuff. We're not so horribly gimped that you'll notice it if you solo around with an HA, but if you were stuck playing NC, trying to win as a faction, you'd get frustrated.

You aren't going to struggle with any faction, especially if you only play HA. Stats for ViXeN's NC character, if anyone hasn't seen it:

Vanguard: 2 kills, 10 minutes
Lightning: 30 kills, 46 minutes
Reaver: 0 kills, 5 minutes
MAX: 8 minutes played, 1 kill
Time played: 7 hours 40 minutes
Time played as HA: 6 hours 14 minutes
HA weapons with kills: Gauss SAW and shrike
Kills with any infantry primary that wasn't the gauss saw: 5 (4 mercenary, 1 scattercannon)

Explain to me how this proves you gave the NC a real look.

When? Your NC character lists 0 kills for it.

I'm an experienced FPS gamer and the Gauss Saw's recoil is more difficult than most to deal with. I've only briefly tested both VS and TR guns, and I mean briefly, but they gave me a predictable and smooth recoil such as I'm used to from games such as Battlefield (pre-EA thank you). The Saw can be used well but it kicks and bucks like a mule between the recoil, low fire rate, and COF, so must be babied to perform well. It also requires certs to really perform well which limits your options.

I've taken down aircraft with the Warden on multiple occasions, but that doesn't mean the gun is good at it. It means I enjoy taking pot shots at mossies and scythes even though I have a ping of 100+ .

how do you counter vertical recoil?

By slowly pulling the mouse down.

Vertical recoil is easy to compensate manually.

Left/Right recoil is much harder

I believe we had this conversation before. Less recoil = more bullets per burst. DPS is measured by full auto 100% accuracy, so burst fire makes your DPS drop. TR guns, because they have less recoil, will perform closer to their listed DPS because they can shoot more bullets before having to stop to compensate for recoil.

And no, this isn't a significant balance issue, just a point you've glossed over twice now.

The only part of community that "knows" about this is the part that doesn't have any idea how to read weapon stats.

Admittely, that is about 90-95% of players