[Vehicle] HOW is the vanguard statistically the worst MBT

Really you will have to show me where you get those statistics, but you will not because your statement is FALSE...The statistics clearly show the Vanguard is statistically the worst performing tank in nearly EVERY category...

It's top speed is slightly faster, but it's acceleration and turn ratio's are much lower compared to both other tanks.

Only slightly. If you changed the DPS to only 1 extra damage per second it would do about as much as the extra damage we have now. You would have to look pretty hard to find a situation where the extra damage really gives a big difference.

Same amount of health. It has more potential health through damage reduction. But only on side-armor does this really benefit the Vanguard, and the Magrider has do use it's superior mobility and strafing to dodge only 1 shell and he's already ahead of the Vanguard. Which is kinda sad that two primary advantages of the Vanguard over the Magrider (more DPS and better armor) can be countered by only one part of the Magrider abilities (strafing, which doesn't include moving across rough terrain and better stability while firing and moving).

Yes. I rarely ever see a 1/2 Vanguard. In general you need just drive past an infantry column to pick one up. You just have to hope it's not a dummy. My last 3 Gunners either fired only sporadically, didn't fire at all or noticed targets late or were busy firing at a full-health Prowler 500m away while there were smoking and dangerous vehicles parked against my front. But I must say that about 75% of the gunners can actually track targets and use the weapon effectively.

That's considered super elite? No.. I've seen public platoons do this. Sure the leader has to be half awake at the very least and enforce discipline in the platoon, but it can be done and is done all the time.

The platoon that uses a gal per squad, drops on point and relies on medics to revive and uses enough discipline to sit on the control point till the base flips, redeploys and then does so again.. is the one that wins the alert for a faction.

The ones sitting outside trading tank rounds do not. And sorry to say, even a Tank angled up 90 degrees cannot hit a Gal at ceiling. The Gal won't even render to you.

Anti-tank gun killing more tanks than any other. But is underperforming?

Also no idea what I'm supposed to see in those graphs. 1st one, roughly the same amount of "most pulled" spikes of Vangs and Prowlers.
Second one, all vehicles kills. Ermahgerd! Prowlers are good at killing deployed sunderers!
VS Harassers, Lightings, Liberators and even Flashes die more due to Vangs than Prowlers. And of course TR die more to NC than to VS.

Yet somehow, the anti vehicle king is not working as intended

Looks like you got the kills by Vulcan from the Harasser, not the Prowler. The G-30 doesn't even make it to the list 8030 kills in total, not 14892

This is how it is. Strong players can make the Vanguard a nightmare for rivals. The tank is powerful.

Inexperienced players struggle with the rof and sluggishness. That's why the tank isn't a stats winner. Most NCs stuff takes more time to learn, I think.

The Vanguard is one of the easiest tanks to take out in a Lightning, even if it's a 2/2.
The reason being; it's incredibly slow to turn, even with the combat chasis, so has a more difficult time defending itself than any other tank.

The Vanguard is also one of my favourite tanks and I decimate when I'm in it, BUT, that doesn't mean it isn't one of the hardest to master.

A stat on its own doesnt mean much unless you analyse it further.
Same goes for any weapon in the game, you cant base a weapons effectiveness on its stats alone. You need to break down its usage.

The vanguard is a scary tank to face, and imo there are more good tankers on NC because of this than the other factions.
TR just sit prowlers on hills and take out infanry and sundies. VS sit behind a rock straffing in and out (or on top of a hill farming). NC will go kill things (usually mbt's)in there vanguards, in droves. They dont miss and know how to position themselves.
Im ok in a tank, but i can count the one on ones ive won against a vanguard on 1 finger.

Yes, and I use the term "super elite" in a semi-sarcastic sense. I RARELY see the organization it takes to have a platoon survive solely on a beacon, AND if a platoon is dropping on a base having 1-6 guys getting out of their vehicles isn't going to solve much. I've never seen a gal (that's not actively engaging me and only if its smart and in the deadspace above my tank) that I can't shoot down or force to withdraw. As long as there is a rock in the general vic. you can shoot the gal down, and experienced tankers know this, even gals at max alt

Lol it does render, I've done this at indar ex. countless times.

-drives away on auraxium stealth prowler-

You were looking at Q4 performance, and I was looking at all Prowler performance. So naturally my numbers will be higher than yours, though all numbers will be higher naturally.

Not really, the vans specialty, imho is short-mid ranges with varying effectiveness at long ranges.

The prowlers specialty imo is short and long. (ive caught many a prowler deployed and unable to escape my righteous fury at mid range)

The magrider is good at mid-long ranges. It can dodge everything if timed right, at 125m+. Multiple times I've survived engagements without a scratch in open terrain where alot of people say the maggie is bad. (which is dumb).

Also if brawling is all you're good at in a vanguard try vehicle stealth, it generally allows you to close distance with the enemy to the point where the front of your tank is touching their a**. (at which point you could tank mine them if you like)

For AI work, it has the slowest RoF. Even in pure AV builds (which is 9/10 MBT's these days) that's going to have a big impact in KPH and KPU

For VEHICLE KPH/KPU the slow RoF still does have a 'negative' effect. It's a BOON to players who are good and hit high accuracy, but it's more punishing for misses.

The Vanguard is also the worst for a stock MBT, and while I agree that I believe it becomes the best AV tank bar none when fully certed, that's a large investment most users haven't made, further lowering the general usage stats.

In short, it's the worst uncerted and has the highest skill floor of the 3 MBT's.

Mag is the easiest to use, though it's armor and weapon stats would suggest it should have lower performance. It's just the floating hover tank that only has to worry about "forward" is easier to use. Prowlers dual-canon DPS machine type is also much more forgiving for new players and it just destroys in the infantry KPH/KPU because of it.


But yeah, for fighting other armor, me and my friend easily do our best in the Vanguard.

What statistics don't show however is whether or not the vanguard completed its objective. Which may be a sundy, or an enemy armor column. And unlike the prowler or the magrider in alot of cases it has the ability to survive the initial pass of a TB run. Which can spell doom for lib pilots that go in too deep. OR you can if you get the drop on an enemy tank pop shield and blow them to bits before your shield goes down taking no damage allowing you to engage another target of opportunity.

The tanks are extremely balanced atm, and are easily the most balanced aspect in the game. Most tank battles come down to who made the first shot. I hate threads that suggest that the tanks are imbalanced as it makes me laugh and when I show them to other tankers that like me do cross faction play alot, they tend to giggle too. Hell, its gotten to the point where I hop to whatever faction has lowest pop so I can get the most kills out of it...

Closing notes: I highly recommend for up and coming tankers to max stealth or NAR.
I also recommend side armor for the vanguard (get stealth too). for extra tankiness. (essentially 16k HP on the sides of the tank not counting shield (the other tanks max out at around 12500 essential HP)).

Just FYI, EHP is short for effective hit points. Not 'essential'.

Ik, different terminology same meaning. It "essentially/effectively" has 16k hp

Nope. Unless we aret talking of different data. You mean MBT killed by Vulcan? Or general kills of Vulcan?

If on an average life the Vanguard is just killing 1.1 vehicles or 3.9 infantry... how could it complete its objective without really killing things? If the enemy brought in 2 Sunderers, then the Vanguard is unlikely to kill both before it itself is destroyed. Or if the Vanguard met a Lightning along the way... well there's your 1.1 vehicle quota.

As for "enemy armour column"... if that column comprises 1.1 enemy tanks, then sure. But otherwise on average a Vanguard is statistically unlikely to be a major threat.

I mean as a whole those statistics show that all MBTs are heavily underperforming. Why pay 450 nanites just to kill one vehicle (which might even be a Flash) and then just die? You could be a Light Assault and pay 150 nanites to kill any vehicle! Or why pay 450 nanites to just kill 4 people and then die... you could probably achieve the same effect just as any infantry class (and then dying doesn't matter).

Hmmm... yes, it looks like I used the Vulcan-H data instead of the MBT Vulcan data.

Why on earth though is the Vulcan-H killing so many MBTs in the first place?

Anyhow, using the MBT numbers (6,446 kills), the number is revised to this:

Prowler AP + Vulcan- 79.92 (34,290+6,446 kills: 407.2+102.5 hours)

Which still makes it the most lethal MBT out of the three. So the data may have changed, but the conclusion has not.

Lol, "statistics say this, they say that" what matters is how you handle in that vehicle. Why would you pay 450 nanites to kill one vic? Because that vic stands between you and your teams survival. Ive lost tons of prowlers on suicide runs to kill sundies to save bases.
What im saying is its easier in a van. And if you know what you're doing the shortcoming of the vanguard (which is really only its turn rate as long as racer is on).

Honestly if you're only killing 1.1 vehicles in any mbt you're doing something wrong. (Or are inexperienced).

One thing ive noticed is that alot of tankers use their ability as a crutch. They can only survive a match with their shield or deploy. Which is stupid. If you can't defeat an enemy tank without the use of the shield, hate to break it to you but you suck.

Now im not saying you or anyone here does. What i am saying is that NC tankers get this idiotic mindset that the shield will save them from all harm.

Play all the factions extensively and tank alot, you might realize what I'm saying.

This is basically my experience in tanking in a nutshell:

Started as NC, went to TR omg prowler OP, went to VS omg magrider OP, played some more NC omg vanguard OP.

So basically I've come to the conclusion that if the tanks not the problem its the players. But thats my opinion which has little to offer you except my thoughts on the matter.

Another closing note: prowlers going to get a higher vkph you know how easy it is to hit the faster moving tgts in one?

2nd closing note: people ive talked to who tank extensively on all factions as well tend to agree with me once again opinion

Essentially and effectively do not share the same meaning. I see where you're coming from but the nuance between the two words is that using the term "essentially" in that sentence means you literally give the tank 16k HP when equipping side armor... which you do not. When you use the term "effectively" in that sentence it means that when you equip side armor you "in effect" have 16k HP.

Except when we look at the stats(measurements of performance) and see that they really are not balanced and the Vanguard as measured by it's ACTUAL performance vs the other tanks Actual Performance we see that it is not balanced and it is under performing...

Unless you have some other method of measuring balance...The most standard way is to look at normalized statistics between different things and see where they differ.

Is there a big huge glaring imbalance? NO, but it is there as we can see it in the overall statistics, because in almost all of the categories we would use to compare the MBT's it finishes last in almost all of them. If it was balanced, we would see some areas where it is first, some second and some third and this would apply to all of the MBT. Except that is not the case it finishes last in almost ALL categories.

This is completely irrelevant and/or a fabrication...If the Stats do not show the Vanguard completing its Objective, then they will not show the mag or prowler failing or succeeding either, so it is irrelevant and can not be used as a comparison. To say or imply the vanguard completes its objective more then the other two MBT, with no numbers to back up such a claim, makes it irrelevant at best or fabricated at worse, therefore useless.

You will need to show me the statistics that show the tank buster being more effective vs the Prowler or Magrider. If you are going to make the claim, then back it up, otherwise it is a fabrication. besides which, the Tank buster kills so few MBT's in general that it would have little impact.