How is the Fracture & Vortex Balanced Against Ravens?

You wrong TR fractures need Lockdown and it make you more vulnerable than NC and VS Max, and fractures still remais garbage with using lockdown.

You grab a NC MAX with ravens up in the hills and you can bring death from above, cause ravens max attack without rendering from distance and still maintains accuracy.

That the new Anti-Max weapon will not help balance Ravens. I think the moment a Raven MAX exposes himself to aim, he will finally be vulnerable to an infantry-held anti-MAX weapon with fast projectile speed. If Ravens can't stand and spam, they won't be as effective. Just like the vehicles, they can now be at the mercy of a smaller target built to hurt them at extreme range.

That being said, I still think they will likely need a range and/or damage nerf.

At charge 3, in terms of damage per shot, yes.
The vortex charge 3 does require "charge-up".

If you ask me, honestly, which I think is the "best" weapon, I would absolutely vote Raven. (on versatility (AI) potential alone, on short reload, on higher dps,..)

I don't think the vortex is a good "reference point".
Should maxes have extremely long range AV firepower?
If so, why don't they have 1.25 & 1.5 x scopes like vehicles?
Why is it intended "gameplay" for VS to snipe vehicles before the shooter is rendered on the vehicles screen?


Starting AV max rebalancing:
1) TR:
Pounders: Nerfed splash damage, down to 80 before 0.6m. (current 125)
Slight velocity buff: 110m/s. (+10%)

Fractures are pretty much "ideal balance" weapons; TR trait, ..
except they need to hit.
So whatever is causing the in-accuracy needs to go.
No to "coyote lockon" system.

2) NC:
Ravens: nerfed damage, down to 315. (-20 per shot. Shoot both arms, and that is 200 less damage from the mags)
nerfed splash damage, down to 30 before 0.6m (current 75; 30 is the same as fractures)
50m beyond "normal" render distance, the missiles start loosing damage.
Or even before it.
The fuel runs out,..
so suppose normal render range is 350m.
At 300m, the missile starts losing damage. At 450m, the missile disappears (zero damage).

3) VS:
Comets: double the ammo pool (45-> 90)
Buff direct damage to 335 (current Ravens); lower indirect dmg to 60.
These also get a damage drop-off system. Damage starts dropping of at say.. 150m, and is zero at 350m.
In return, accuracy is buffed (0.15 ); muzzle velocity is buffed (100m/s)

Vortex: not sure what to do tbh.
The vortex gets variable damage drop-off depending on charge level.
At rank 3, similar damage drop-off as the Ravens.
Charging up to vortexes will slowly zoom: 1x; 1.25 charge 2; 1.5 charge 3.
However: all charges get the same damage multiplier.
This means, at short range, spamming the vortex is an effective (AV) option.

That's what I read.

That is a fantasy that many non-NC have. Shooting around corners is possible, yes, but remember that the Raven is a continuous fire weapon. You have to hop your aim over the edge every shot, which will mess up the rocket's path. If what you're shooting at has even the slightest bit of cover, you will most likely mash the rockets into a tree first because you either cannot see it or need to fire another volley, which disrupts the flight path. It's unrealistic, it's impractical and definitely not as OP as most people claim.

The only options for fracture accuracy at long range are, standard lockons (easy to defend against find any rock or tree because you are prewarned), coyote lockon which doesn't have a warning but is ineffective if the projectile isn't fast enough or the lockon range is too small and finally super high velocity like the vortex.

I don't see any other viable accuracy increasing mechanics aside from removing the wobble and CoF which won't boost accuracy as effectively as the other factions accuracy mechanics.

You know this is stupid, right?

So a solo raven can destroy an entire tank column, where the VS needs group up... A solo used weapon has the same dmg than a group of vortexes. This is called Inbalance...

OP striker was the same. two guys could deny the whole air actions above a base.
Pre-nerfed Harasser was the same. 2 of them could effectively harass a whole vehicle platoon over and over again.


then:
3 Raven maxes theoretical damage (100% acc) is equal to the damage that 7 Vortex maxes can cause in every 3 seconds (lvl 3 charge time). Raven has no real downtime due to its reload speed.
This is a big difference. A quarter squad of Ravens can do more damage than a half squad Vortexes on the other side. This means NC has more resource ( nanites and soldiers) to pull extra tanks or sundies in a battle....


So again, every weapon is strong when it is used by a group. The problem is that you mentioned. "Ravens can be used by solo players and deal enough damage to destroy an entire tank column, whereas Vortex are best used in groups". Where NC starts using Raven in groups there an NC-calyptic b*tthurt/-sex will start... poor spandex females...

Adding coyote mechanic to AV ground weapons would be insanely OP.

If you dont see the problem of it,im sure you havent spent enough time in this game.

I think you misunderstood the point of that paragraph and didn't bother to read the rest. Vortex is more likely to net you kills; Ravens are more likely to net you vehicles. That is indeed unbalanced!

look VS and NC get great accuracy, if you have a better idea to make fractures actually accurate without a lock-on mechanic i am all ears.

ravens issue is their DPS and accuracy, If all three have great accuracy you have to balance them around that accuracy which the raven isn't. If they add high accuracy, no cof and no drop mechanic to fractures they need to balance it's DPS to be in-line with vortexes and ravens (after ravens have been nerfed down to vortex level).

The other part is each of their accuracy mechanics will perform at different levels, some better then others. If one has too high accuracy they have to balance it's DPS around that accuracy, while a counterpart may not be as accurate due to the nature of the mechanic said weapon should do more damage per shot to reward hits better.

Ravens are high dps,, high damage supremely forgiving if your initial aiming/leading is off. vortexes aren't as forgiving and reward accurate shots.

You can't give something excellent accuracy and damage at the same time and that is exactly what ravens are while poor fractures have poor accuracy, cof and damage and is supposedly balanced around the clipsize.

The issue is they are not balanced, NC get biased in their favor 'balancing' VS gets decent balancing, TR get biased balancing against them and get stuck with all the downsides except a low clipsize.

you cannot expect the three weapons to be balanced until all of them have decent upsides and a fair balance of downsides across all three.

Yes, the new Striker is a perfect example of how OP coyote on infantry AV is. Why, you can't even air-farm the TR because of how relentlessly powerful it is! It needs ANOTHER nerfing!

I dont think so. If you think that lancer,vortex is for getting kills, than you are wrong. They'll give you a tons of assists, then sometimes,when you are lucky you can manage a kill ...
Based on statistics, Raven has better VKPH,VKPU/ normal KPH, KPU than Vortex... Which means Raven"ll net you both KIlls and Vehicles better than Vortexes....


Not to mention, that you said is irrelevant. When a tank zerg is coming, the goal is destroying the armor as soon as possible, with the lowest effort, not killing drivers. Killing drivers is the AI's duty not AV... Pulling only 1 max for -as you said- destroy an entire tank column means a huge advantage to the leaders of NC platoons, even if,that you said is only halfly true...
Where VS and TR need to group up...

Well i know there are players who fight for ourself and killing, farming.... As a primary CMedic I always play for objectives. I dont care about killing until my squad isnt healthy.... My point of view is around the objectives.
We are different with different preference.

Interestingly, fractures have higher DPS than raven, and a I have no idea how to make better fractures. But adding coyote mechanism to the current fracture would be madness.
As you said raven's problem is the DPS and acc.

Coyote mechanism is giving + acc. You dont have to lead your aim..
TR max's special ability : lockdown gives a nice DPS buff, ability to spam stuffs...

Im afraid of Lockdowned Coyote fractures would have more damage and better acc,then the current Raven. You wouldnt have to expose yourself eighter, aiming at the point where you know coyotes would activate,then profit. Lasher style.

Coyotes also negates a advantage of mobility. So Magrider and harasser would be hardcountered against a single francture. ADAD, peek-a-boo tactics using a cover would be useless. Coyotes could harass deployed sundies, tanks behind rocks. etc....

Nope nope nope....
Idea of ground coyotes is a huuuge mistake...

Striker is a reliable AA luncher... Perfectly fitting that role.

Please re-read my post. i talked about having to balance damage by how accurate they are. part of balancing something like guided ravens and coyote fractures is getting the yaw and pitch of the rockets right so you have to aim at your enemy when firing and the enemy has a decent chance to evade by taking advantage of the limitation of the rockets ability to turn.

fractures on paper might do more dps then ravens, in practice though this is not the case. your fears on coyote fractures don't mean anything if guided ravens, coyote fractures and vortexes have their damage, DPS and clipsize adjusted around their high accuracy.

ravens are unbalanced because of high accuracy with high damage any guidance changes to fractures would have to have it's clipsize and damage per magazine looked at to be within the same parameters as both ravens and vortexes.

lockdown is the equivalent of buying your AV max a pine coffin. strafing is the way to fight tanks and survive. coyote wouldn't mean you would not have to aim like everyone else. it merely means they get a decent accuracy mechanic that they can use to fire on stationary targets and lead a bit on moving targets.

Uh. right. That's why it's one of the worst performing launchers in the game, right? And don't ******** me. I own one.

Ravens are pretty much exactly where they should be... They kill on Average about 9 vehicles/Hour and cost 450 nanites. This is not a large number when you take into consideration other AV options available, which cost the same or less and kill more vehicles/Hour.

The Vortex are killing around 8 vehicles / hour and are only slightly behind the Ravens in AV, However, when you take into consideration the Lancer, the VS still have more and better AV options.

The Fracture is crap and it needs a COF adjustment and a velocity buff on the rocket. This should give the TR a long range infantry based AV weapon. The pounder is awesome and I wouldn't touch it.

Speaking of KPU and such, you reminded me that Oracle of Death exists! I'll post some links comparing the 3 MAX AV weapons in question.

Vehicle KPU Right
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=vKPU&weapon1=16033&weapon2=16029&weapon3=16031
KPU Right
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kpu&weapon1=16033&weapon2=16029&weapon3=16031
Vehicle KPU Left
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=vKPU&weapon1=16032&weapon2=16028&weapon3=16030
KPU Left
http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kpu&weapon1=16032&weapon2=16028&weapon3=16030

I've also downloaded the raw data from the site for analysis myself. Interestingly, Ravens have a much higher KPU; I think this is because Ravens also double as a viable AI weapon. Here are the average KPU and vKPU from my raw data, combining both arms:
Ravens: KPU 3.603855503, vKPU 1.165716419
Fractures: KPU 2.781634804, vKPU 0.925634962
Vortexes: KPU 2.529219302, vKPU 1.178907846

It's very interesting to see that Vortex has higher vKPU than Ravens. I might have also messed up somewhere, but here's what I did:
1. Culled Raven, Fracture and Vortex data from raw CSV
2. Deleted all rows that have null KPU value (which does nothing to affect value of average; just getting rid of extraneous data)
3. Take average of KPU and vKPU values for both arms (vKPU values only exist for rows that have valid KPU values)

I also do not know how the timestamp works for the raw data, so my average doesn't take into account the recent Raven nerf.
My data: https://www.mediafire.com/?4ucwkjvziw0e9jw