How is the Fracture & Vortex Balanced Against Ravens?

This is not a nerf thread. It's an information and learning thread, because I need some of both here.

I'm genuinely interested in learning how the Raven is considered to be balanced against the Fracture and the Vortex.
On paper, and with my in-game experiences, I've found the Raven to be totally superior in MAX AV combat.

Maybe a knowledgeable NC player can constructively argue against the data and points made below?



- Raven vs Fracture -

335 dmg ........... 210 dmg
75 indirect ........ 30 indirect
1.5s reload ........ 2.2s reload

It seems to me that accuracy and muzzle rates are negligent, because Ravens have laser guidance.
Magazine size (5 rounds vs 10 rounds) negligent since the Fracture is missing half it's shots against moving targets anyway and the rounds can't correct their vector mid-flight.
Ammunition pool negligent since Fractures need almost double the pool just to land as many accurate hits against targets.

Ravens can be wire-guided, which greatly improves accuracy, they get a higher dmg boost, they get a higher indirect damage, and they get a faster reload.
Don't see how this is balanced.

- Raven vs Vortex -

335 dmg ...........L1 167/100 - L2 250/150 - L3 300/200
75 indirect ........ 0 indirect

1.5s reload ........ 1.8s reload

Even if the Vortex charges to L3, it still doesn't do as much damage, and factor in how long it takes to charge up to 3, release, reload, charge up...vs the Raven firing off 5 rounds for 335 dmg each and then reloading in almost (.3 seconds) the same amount of time.
Overall the Raven is doing more dmg against a single target.

Vortex gets 0 indirect damage, and even though the accuracy is almost like hitscan, the long charge up leaves the MAX exposed and reduces overall DPS as explained above.


So...I don't really get how the Raven is balanced vs the other two MAX AV weapons.
Can someone explain how it is? Because I just don't see it.

If you're leaving yourself exposed using vortex, you're using the vortex incorrectly. Vortex is meant to be charged in cover, then you pop out, fire, hide. Ravens require full exposure always as the rockets are guided by the operator. Both TR/VS MAXs have the luxury of being able to hide in cover inbetween shots, NC MAXs do not get to do that. Not only that, but the flight time for Ravens gives the opponents plenty of time to react. But if they fail to do so, they're punished by the obviously higher damage.

If the TR/VS MAXs did the same amount of damage as NC MAX, it would pretty much make it extremely unfair for any Raven operators since they have to remain exposed to enemy fire just to land shots, unlike TR/VS which can take pot shots with relative impunity.

At extreme ranges like 200 meters, how is a moving tank or sundy or whatever going to be able to accurately hit a Raven MAX that is standing just above a hill or just from behind a tree or rock?

You're making it sound like it's really easy to hit MAX units from long range with regular or AP tank rounds and it isn't.
Plus while the MAX is firing the Raven he's side strafing with ADAD constantly. Makes hitting him at range extremely difficult while you're getting pounded.

Vortex doesn't hold charge unlike Lancer.

Just say you don't like Raven MAXs and that you want them nerfed instead of posting some ******** thread and baiting people to answer your rhetorical question. Let's just ignore the AMR in PTS and the fact that -every- MAX can ADAD AV spam without much risk, not just NC MAXs.

I've played VS/TR/NC. I know. The first thing I did was buy dual vortex for the VS MAX, I didn't have any problems charging in cover and then shooting at vehicles before I was fully charged. It's not exactly the most difficult thing to do or time.

Well, first off, the Fractures are just poor weapons, whether compared to the Ravens/Vortex or not. They need to be fixed.

Second, the charge levels of the Vortex have different resistance values for different targets for each level of charge. http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Vehicle_armor_and_damage_resistance is a probably more or less correct listing. The Vortex can actually hit harder than Ravens depending on charge level and target. But this is held in pretty hard check by the charge time.

The problem is the Raven's absurd continuity of fire, combined with the good damage, and the laser guided precision. They are too effective from point blank to their max range. You might make Fractures work up close (as much as Fractures can work), but Vortexes are severely hampered by trying to use them at close range, and you are far better served with Comets. No such problem exists between Falcons/Ravens, because even though the Falcons hit harder, they don't hit hard enough to counter the Raven's relentless damage. Once you have Ravens, there's no reason to ever use Falcons ever again.

Despite what it looks like, 70m/s really isn't THAT slow, especially if you: 'A', know how to lead targets, and/or 'B', located in a zerg where the enemy likely already has their hands tied with other threats like infantry and aircraft. Also you just don't "avoid" Ravens when you weren't even looking at them or aware of them in the first place. I predict that a lot of TR/VS deaths are probably attributed to this reason alone. Still, it's difficult to hit a Raven MAX on a ridge, hill, building, or mountain at range anyway. So it's normally within a Prowler's/Magrider's best interest to move well out of a Raven's effective range asap, regardless if the friendly support just is there. The DPSes of all three weapons are why it takes zerg-level of VS/TR MAXes to eliminate vehicles when it takes a much smaller and more compact amount of NC ones equipped with Ravens to do the same. I think everyone can attest to this to some extent.

You can spot vehicles and use that to guide them to it without having vision on the target, so you absolutely can hit vehicles without LoS with the Raven.

I can even do it with AV mana turret, Ravens are much easier to use.

It's difficult to hit ANY MAX on any ridge, hill, building. Whatever gun its using doesn't matter. The Raven doesn't magically make NC MAXs impervious while on specific geographical locations.

I posted factual information, explained my reasoning, and asked for feedback.
It seems you think that Ravens are balanced against the other weapons. You only countered with one argument (hiding in cover vs firing), that I countered and then you blew up in a tantrum like a child.

Whelp good to know where you stand. Thanks for participating! Door is that way --->

I only blow up like a child having a tantrum when someone poses a discussion while already being pretty set with their viewpoint. If you wanted to have validation, you should just talk a mirror.

Hiding in cover between fracture shots...
You're joking, right?
It's even more useless without lockdown, and once you do lockdown, you're a sitting duck for anyone who can aim HEAT/AP shells. Futhermore, lockdown does not increase accuracy, which means you're still going to miss about 50% of your shots.
I challenge you to think of ONE advantage the fracture has over the other ES counterparts. I can name like five disadvantages off the top of my head.

Honestly, they're not balanced although I love them. Their range plus aiming mechanism plus damage is too great. I think they either need a damage or a range nerf.

That being said, the new Anti-Material rifle will be able to wreck Raven MAXs soon, as they have to stand in the open to aim well.

Well the red rockets that the Fractures shoot everywhere look pretty scary so they must be good right, Right?

That's not the point. Ravens have the luxury of out-DPSsing Fractures and Vortexes by simple mechanics and higher damage output alone. TR and VS can't match it no matter how hard they try.

Sorry, but the only tantrum I see here is yours.

You're just a h8r because you don't like the sound of freedom.

Is that all you can come up with really?

Ravens are not balanced in their current state compared to fractures and vortexes.

They do more damage then fractures, they are guided so you can correct your 'misses', they are not subject to drop, they don't have a terrible CoF like fractures.

In short they have the best accuracy trait, best DPS, no drop, no CoF and no downsides at all while fractures downsides are subject to drop, rockets not firing straight as they should, due to no accuracy boosting mechanic like the other two alot of shots will miss.

Vortexes have good accuracy, but correction for misses is not possible, charge up mechanic is a blessing and a curse.

Admit it you are defending ravens merely on the basis that you use them and don't care about balance as long as it's not unbalanced against you.

Oligarchy is not "Freedom". Srsly ppl, enough with the "Freedom" shtick...

Blah blah. If you don't want to participate in the discussion, then don't click on the thread anymore. Simple. Like I said, there's the door. Don't let it hit you.

The Vortex has better range and can serve as an AA weapon.

Fractures are balanced around making TR easier to deal with as the other two factions.