How are more casual players supposed to compete with experienced ESF pilots?

How are amateurs supposed to compete with pros? Doesnt work in real life, shouldnt work in games either. COD really did a number on this generation of gamers. People think they become the best with no work at all. Sigh.

If you put alot of hours into something you deserve to be good at something and alot better than random people who dont want to sacrifice the time and effort.

Because it is a single seat vehicle. An airborne lightning at best.

So try again and try to explain to me why a single seat vehicle should require more experience to use effectively than a Liberator that requires at least two players to be effective? Or a MBT?

And of course I am talking about using effectively not mastering. Any vehicle takes weeks to months to master. But to be competent to last more then a few moments in the sky as an ESF takes way more effort than any other vehicle in the game.

By learning how to play I suppose

I agree, but that doesn't mean it therefore isn't very hard for a new player.

I'd bet that the attrition rate of new players to flying compared to older players to flying is at least 100:1 and may be as high at 1000:1.





PS2 has two basic issues with flying.

1) is the skill cap is reasonably high (not as high are some would have you suppose, but still relatively high), high enough for a newbie not to have a chance against someone that remotely knows what they are doing (unlike the infantry or ground vehicle game).

2) the controls are arkward and unintuitive compared to most flying in most game.




I honestly think they'll have to change things a LOT for the PS4 version, and given that the codes will be the same that will end up changing the PC version too.

If they change the flight model to something decent in order to accommodate the PS4 I'll take back everything I said about the PS4 version being worthless.

Actually, there are ways to balance for skill and CoD helped give it a name, the n00btube. It gives new player a weapon with a high power to skill ratio which gives them a chance at first but it is not a very effective weapon at higher levels of play. The A2A lock ons are obviously in the game to balance for skill. They give new pilots an easy to use and fairly effective weapon to help bridge the gap in skill. Then when you have learned to handle the aircraft, you'll most likely switch to a nose gun and be more effective that way.

Many "pro" gamers are too far up their own **** to realise it but they really do need all the new players to fill out the servers. Without them, the game would be empty except a few elitists. It might work for an arena shooter, at least until they close down all the servers due to lack of activity but in a game like this, it's even more noticeable.

The problem is that the skies are so full with elite pilots, that there is almost no room for improvements for new players, they're getting rekt instantly.

I like flying, or at least, I'd like to like flying. I'm decent at piloting an ESF, but I'm nowhere near capable enough to even halve a dedicated pilot's HP. At least, since the resource revamp, I don't have to wait 5 minutes to pull a second ESF, but this one will probably die as fast anyway. I really want to get better and I'm really trying, but it's a PITA/nearly impossible to do so.

VR allowed me to learn the basics and know how to perform reverse maneuvers and stuff, but now I have to get better by facing other pilots that are slightly better than me, not ten times better than me. It's like saying to a MMORPG lvl 1 noob "go in that dungeon and kill that lvl 80 boss, if you try hard enough you might kill him". Well, he might try, but he will throw his computer away in the process.

So yeah, right now, there is not many option for other players to join the flying fun and even trying to get better. Joining an air squad might help but even then, they don't control your mouse and twitch reflexes, but they're the one who'd be the most qualified to introduce new pilots to the air game. Once I'm satisfied with my infantry plays and feel I have enough certs unlocked into my Scythe, I might give it a more serious shot, but I'm almost 200 hours into the game... Not really a "new player" here.

Lesson 1 : I invested on A2A Locks, should have gotten the Coyote because those require even less practice(Note : Not less "Skill"). Noted. When the whole C4/Shottie rage started I refused to join as those exploiting them hoarded unimaginable KDs, I won't make that mistake again and I'm already using a Shottie and more C4 than ever. *Gathers Certs for Coyotes*.
Lesson 2 : I'm not alone in thinking the current "Dog Fights" are pure BS. I won't bother learning. Ground farm is good too, and full of melting hot cheese and Certs. Banshee + Coyote or Needle + LOLPods/Hornets here I come.
Lesson 3 : I'm not alone in thinking the Frames should completely change the behavior of the ESF to accommodate more styles and that Hover is 110% suitable for any and all situations.
Lesson 4 : There is a wide variety of options for ESF equipment; NAR, FS, NAR, FS, FS, NAR and FS. And NAR. Which is quite similar to what people use on 90% of what they pull. I wonder why! Let's buff NAR and FS since we're bent on Shottie buffs, right Devs? Push it up to 100% of what's pulled. Just like the Tank Buster!

A kill is a kill. This is war.

Use the right tool for the right job.


Use lock-ons if you want to go A2A. Use shotguns in towers and other confined battles. Use PPA/ automated grenade launchers for farming and getting certs. Use anti-concussion implant along with concussion grenade and high capacity LMG to clear rooms. Use MAXes for longer killstreaks.



Or be like me and spend 46 solid days as a medic :/

Make a rant video~

@OP

They don't. ESFs are heavily skill-based and not newbie friendly in the least. It takes actual practice and whatnot to even start competing with a seasoned pilot, who has a fully certed ESF and months of experience gunning down newbies.

Instead, go AA. Much more satisfying and easier to do. Then collect ESF pilot tears

Or you can go back to the good old days, where computer games were actually hard - and if you wanted to do well in them you had to spend a decent amount of time, and not expect the game to babysit and hold your hand constantly. No one expects every player to be godlike or "pro".

Look at me, i crashed and died more times than i can count in an ESF but now I can keep up most good pilots - I still get wrecked by ace pilots but that's just how it is. I don't come crying on the forum cause i got out-skilled - I accept he is either a) better than me b) he spent more time learning - just like it is in real life. I don't demand that SOE or any other company implement some kind of baby noob item (Tho lock-on launchers/rockets fit this category) that would allow me to be on the same level as the top players without doing any hard work myself or skill.

Not to go totally off topic: but this day and age, people expects to be waited on hand and foot.

I love all the people in this thread whining about ESFs playing the A2A role. I've been a pilot since this game's beta, and I have no problem with Tomcats or Coyotes. I used to get annoyed by Coyotes, but I realized that they are just another A2A weapon. You "pilots" who think the A2A role is skill-less, really crack me up. I can tell you, from plenty of experience, that the best way to deal with a large amount of enemy air presence is to use Tomcats with max Lock-on range, especially if you playing solo.

OP, run A2A Tomcats, with max stealth and max fire suppression. Cert out your rotary and use Racer Airframe for quick hit-and-run tactics. Eventually, you will realize that relying on Tomcats will not be enough to deal with the actual good pilots in this game. You will likely start using your nose-gun more often, and you skill we develop from there. Tomcats are simply a supplement to your nose-gun, that let you easily setup Alpha strikes.

Also, to those saying the flight model sucks: I wish you guys could actually live more than 5 seconds in your ESFs. If you could, you would notice that traditional dogfighting DOES happen in this game when the situation calls for it.

Truly a pity.

That's called a Gank Squad. Ganks are slightly less annoying than lockons, and can ruin the airgame on a whole continent if large enough.

I started playing this game because of the great air battles i was expecting

The reality was...different

At first i tried nose-gun only fights which lead me to many deaths
and i could whine about no hit-detection bugs (which are probably caused not only through high ping but by my bad aim too) as long as this thread went till know

but,
when i started using tom-cats the hating started almost immediatly from people who have killed me like a 1000 times in "normal" dogfights

The thing i actually want to point out is:
All those nose-gun pros can dance walzer through the sky as much as they want but don'T blame me if i lock you down during your weird looking performance. This is a war game you use the tactics that work for you and not everyone else

And i'm offering a symbolical cookie to each poor soul that has to comment on my way of playing this game

Moin

Well... practising and becoming experienced pilots themselfes I guess.

If your question was how casual players are supposed to compete with ACE pilots the answer is simple. They are not. At least not in a 1on1. Just get a couple of friends and hunt them down. If you want to become better quick you shouldn't rely on crutches like those wing mounted noobtubes (lolcats and coyotes). You'll also need basic skills in computer games.

It took me about ~30-40h to get to a level where I can consistently win more than 50% of my air duels. I would consider myself a decent, slightly above average pilot, which doesn't prevent me from engaging the aces - and we got a lot of them on Cobalt. I usually get killed, but the times I win are very satisfying. I don't expect to beat someone who literally has spend more than 10x the time in an ESF than I have. And I don't expect the game to give me crutches so I can compete with those who just have much more skill than I have.

Casual arent supposed to compete with people who deliberately dedicate themselves to a certain role.
The only way to compete with anyone is to dedicate yourself to playing the game more.

If this game was 48 vs 48 or something closer to Battlefield's 64 players, while having hard limits on certain types of vehicles, then lock on missiles would be just fine.

The issue is scale. If someone attacks me with A2A missiles by themselves, they are going to land at least one shot on me, but I have a chance to turn / engage them. If multiple A2A missile users engage me, I'm forced to take those hits. 3 will out right kill you, 2 will set you on fire. Yet, if I was attacked by those same people using nose guns, I'd at least stand a chance to disengage from the fight and retreat. They would need to aim and I could juke and dodge to make that as difficult for them as possible, but there is no juking or dodging A2A missiles.

Even in situations where two people are dog fighting with nose guns, a random person could show up and attempt to help them. The notion of helping a teammate out is fine, but the balance of such an encounter changes greatly by what weapons are used. If your teammate shows up using a nose cannon, he'll need to get fairly close to make sure he lands shots on target, he's actively aiming, but also has to keep track of you, so as to not ram you on accident. However, if he shows up with A2A missiles, he can sit comfortably at range and lob missiles at a target that cannot reasonably counter him. The target can't run away from the 2 vs 1 encounter, because that is where A2A missiles become even stronger in easily tracking targets. The target can't disengage you to fight the A2A missile user, because that would expose him to you. On top of all that, you're teammate with the A2A Missiles, is probably going to steal your kill, after you made so much effort aiming, trying to gun that target down.

TL;DR In a pure 1 vs 1 encounter, A2A missiles are balanced. Any more than that and they break the game.

Here's a good piece of advice I dare say, if not life advice literraly. You will NEVER be able to compete with someone who's spending way more time than you playing and practicing. In the same way that, you will never become the best at something without spending time to practice or hone your skills. You will never be a good plane pilot without piloting a plane. You will never learn a new language without spending the time to learn a new language. Same for games, you will never be better than someone who's striving to improve continually and spends more time than you at it.

It's not a per-second basis, obviously. Some people learn a bit faster and slower, but it is a general rule. Same thing for flying ESF. Infantry is also the same, although you probably don't notice it, but that player that killed you might have a k/d of 5 with a high score per hour, because he's played a lot, and got a really good aim/reaction time. ESF makes you feel more powerless, as opposed to infantry where you get the feeling you had a chance. That's pretty much the only problem there.

Lock ons will allow you to close that skill-gap a little, but you will still loose against the better pilots. It won't help you get better though, so it comes down to your personal preference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book)
10 000 hours rule

Its a 2v1. What do you expect to happen? This is why flight squads are so popular right now, which makes plenty of sense. And I am surprised to see that QRY member is saying that there is no dodging A2A. Its not a balance issue, its a numbers "issue", which is perfectly fine.

*Edit for additional clarity*

Do you think that if you were running Tomcats against two other decent pilots, that you could possibly win that encounter? Regardless of load out, it is extremely unlike to escape, let alone win, a 2v1 encounter is my point.

Those particular outfits utilize A2A missiles in mass. So actually worse, Gank Squad + Mass A2A Missile spam.