Higby pls, Consider this Banshee

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Not watching the video cuz it looks weird but....

wut?

SOE only knows how to overnerf. I'm expecting the mag size to stay the same, but insane reduction of indirect damage. Expect to have to use two mags a single infantry unit unless you are right on top of him.

There is no hope for the banshee next month!

join NC, end of story

Talking about AI noseguns mainly. Also gives to ideas for balancing the weapon.

I like the idea of reducing ROF, but the magazine size and damage might not need to be adjusted as much. The goal is to bring down the TTK, and the simplest way to do it is by lowering the ROF. Magazine size and damage shouldn't really be touched as much in my opinion, and the TTK for a nerfed banshee should be around .6 to .8 (so adjust ROF accordingly).

The problem with that is that while most infantry don't have a realisation+decision+action (reaction) speed of 0.6, many don't have a 0.8 second "reaction" speed: It'd average at about 0.9, from a guess.
The L-PPA has it's TTK of around 0.7, I think, balanced by it's long time between shots, meaning that target leading can be, well, misleading, and it's velocity, as that at any significant range increases time to react by 0.1/0.2 seconds. At 50 meters, the range at which they'll commonly be used, that makes the actual TTK more like 1.0/1.1 seconds. Time between shots makes strafing runs ineffective, too.

The AH has it's near-instantaneous TTK balanced by it's magazine, refire-time and range limitation, so at 50 meters, it has an unforgiving TTK of about +0.3 seconds for every burst taht doesn't kill infantry, until you have to reload. Flying close to the ground also makes it quite risky for the pilot, and infantry can run in the 1 or 2 seconds it takes the Reaver to arrive at close range.

The Banshee has it's TTK of around 0.4 seconds balanced by it's magazine, which is too small for constant use. The low ammo expenditure to kill infantry offsets this disadvantage, whilst it can happen from around 80 meters, on strafing runs, and the Banshee is relatiely forgiving compared to the AH. Lengthenign the TTK to about 0.8 seconds might fix the issue, but if it keeps these advantages it'll still be definitely better than the AH/L-PPA. Not good.

Then again,, making it have a TTK of 1.0 would make it less good at killing infantry in prime conditions, so this will be an overnerf.

I suggest a 0.9 second TTK, lower bullet velocity by 50, and slightly higher ammo expenditure, which at the moment is about 5 bullets per infantry (with large splash, at any range). Maybe about 7 per kill (3 kills per mag if shooting at a single target rather than 5) through slight-direct and more prominent splash damage reduction would make it better.

I've barely used the Banshee myself, but I have been the victim A LOT.

Anyway, tell me what you think of the change: I don't think the L-PPA, AH or Banshee should be bad at AI, but they should by no means outshine the liberator belly guns: ESFs are Fighters, the Lib is a freaking gunship (It should be a glass cannon, right now It's a plastic Tank-buster Cannon). Adjustments for the other guns should follow, too.

I would try a TTK of .8 before going up to 1.0 because that seems very long in my eyes. Agreed though, the .4 TTK is a bad thing and needs to be changed. Too much WTF kinda stuff from that.

I also wish that SOE give Banshee unique sound so infantry will easly notice that there is Banshee farmer near them.

My Option A:
Fire rate 720(
Banshee have from the start 50bullet and we can add 30 more.
But every bullet will deliver 75 direct damage and 100 indirect ones. This will put time to kill on 0,83 assuming no direct damage is done.

Great options. I like the idea of giving it a special sound

Pro tip: Repost this on reddit to get easier dev notice.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/2m3wxp/higby_pls_consider_this_banshee/ It is on Reddit so you can upvote for better visibility

Great

You're the one who's used the weapon, man. You figure out the TTK .

The banshee does have a unique sound. The only problem is everyones dead by the time they hear it.

LOLOLOL

SoE only knows how to overnerf etc.
Then, just to let it sink in:
current banshee:
800 rpm, 150 direct, 200 indirect

his proposed banshee:
720 rpm, 75 direct, 100 indirect. So, the "new" banshee does 45% of current banshee dps.
But WAIT waaait we also add a 1 full second of fire delay.
Auwch. I'm not even a pilot, and.. auwch.
As a heavy with a lockon, I would be very exited about such an implementation.
(Hold still please.. that's it darling.. BOOM)

Proposal B:
720 rpm, 50 direct, 70 indirect. (obviously the "70" is also a approximation of 1/3rd of damage).
Let's presume 50% of shots are direct, 50 indirect.
We end up at about 31% DPS of the current banshee.

In what way is this not a sledgehammer?
Taking away more than 2/3rds of the dps?

Meanwhile, the rotary pumps out 200 dmg bullets at 1000 rpm.
Sure, no indirect damage, but still..
Assuming 33% accuracy, but all banshee rounds fall into 0.5m, TTK is lower with a rotary than with the banshee.
As an added bonus, the rotary isn't affected by "flak armor".




Here's a thought:
100 direct, 100 indirect. Still 800 rpm.
And see what happens.

Current TTK vs a max:
(banshee isn't listed explicitly as an air machine gun, but I'll presume that is what it is for resistances, like the mustang air hammer)
Max gets 70% resistance vs direct, 50% vs splash. But, our max is a genius and brought flak armor (whilst flakking at the air.. brilliant!)
This makes max 75% resistance vs indirect.

150*0.3=45
200*0.25=50.
With perfect accuracy 1.65s if I got that right.

New banshee:
100*0.3=30
100*0.25=25.
2.72s if I got that right again.

But, the best part is that splashing right next to a max has received the biggest part of the nerf.
In practice, I'd imagine getting that perfect accuracy on a max that even jiggles a bit, and considering flak-shake, and the CoF of the banshee would be quite tricky.

i would kinda like to see the banshee turned into the banshee from guns of Icarus a 8 shot rocket launcher

I agree with most of these ideas, especially the sound warning for the Banshee.

No, don't do that. Make the bastards come here to their OWN forum to engage with their customers. :/

I die to Banshee many times, and I have auraxium on her. I only hear explosions when bullet's hit the terrain.

Do not nerf banshee, it's OK (comming from an NC main). It should be good against infantry and it does it's job just great.
Instead bring the LPPA and the airhammer to the level of the banshee.
The airhammer could use a complete rework if you asked me... Putting a shotgun on everything is just a bad idea...

Last time I checked (some August/September/October stats), Banshee users had ~215% of the KPU of the AH and over 200% KPU of the LPPA, correct me if I'm wrong. If you see a heavy nerf hammer swing in the patch notes, don't lose your butt hair over it, it is likely to even out the difference. What is important is a slight nerf to rate of fire, a heavy nerf to indirect damage (50-75%) and velocity (so it doesn't outshine LPPA in air to air combat so much). Increase magazine size.

I suggest trading some of the magazine size of the LPPA and a small (!) increase in cof in exchange for more velocity so direct hits are easier to get. I just feel that nobody ever uses up all the magazine unless they forget to reload. If this change is done, banshee's velocity may be nerfed less and all anti infantry nose guns will be more or less viable in the air.

I agree with op on air hammer. It is the least performing, albeit by a small margin. Add enough pellets or tighten the spread slightly to make it viable at ~10m longer range than it is now. Keep dps the same.