[Suggestion] Heat mechanic guns are OP!!!

Give me a second, I'll go check.

Edit: You are mistaken. All heat disipates from all three weapons when you are on your secondary, as long as it didn't overheat. That includes the Eclipse.

You know what's hilarious about this whole thread? That a TR made it. You know, the faction that gets by default 20% more ammo on every single of their weapons. And he is complaining that one weapon in the whole VS arsenal that not even 5% of the whole HA population has it, is OP, because, wait for it, it has infinite ammo when played in a certain way.

I don't know about you, but I find those double standards hilarious

Give the TR a copy of the VS Auraxium Carbine / Assault Rifle and it would be buffed within a day...

You mean the faction that has horrible horizontal recoil and longest reloads to make up for that fact? Since it doesn't have to really reload it would have the worst horizontal recoil in the game to make up for it right?

Recoil management is hard yo.

Only that's completely true?

Orion/Betelgeuse does have the worst or at least second to worst stats out of all LMG's when it comes to horizontal recoil and horizontal tolerance.

Ah could just be the underbarrel thing then that I was thinking of. Couldn't test till after work myself, thanks for checking.

Random horizontal recoil? Well, the definition of random is quite explicit in itself. If you can perfectly predict that, sure, the recoil is easy to manage.

We're not talking about the easily predictable vertical recoil which is not hard to control if you know how to move a mouse closer to you...

After I rax it I am not even sure if I will continue to use the BJ outside of densely populated farm fest. Other weapons do everything it can better, minus sustain ammo forever. However, if it generates a decent amount of tears to use it... I might keep using it just for that.

I too was run over and shot full of holes by an angry rolling lazor rave before I could think 'wait, is that Orion glowing pink?' in the recent days. But, well...

a). That's different how?
b). Directive weapons should be... more. More everything, both as a piece of loot you strive for hours of playtime and as a testbed for new mechanics.

Look at the directive weponry. Look at the reviews available online and listen to what people you play with who've unlocked them are saying. I don't know about you, but I, as a player who has yet to unlock any single one of those (I am not very good at this game, you see), would sum up the general sentiment as:

- Oh, vanu have some kind of heat mechanic gimmick on theirs. Could be interesting. Maybe.
- The 'shotgun with an underbarrel shotgun' is actually not a joke?! We have that gun in the game for real? Damn. If I'd have the time and patience I'd go unlocking it just for the lulz.
- Kraken shots look cool.
- The bile I hear about Butcher and Unity makes me wanna curl up all depressed and not even bother with auraxium medals anymore.
- Carbines are okay, I guess?

There is however no mention of guns that can pierce one infantryman and deal (reduced) damage to the guy behind them. No bullets that splinter into smaller projectiles as they hit squishies (think that one Crimsonland gun). No ricocheting bullets (think underbarrel shotgun thingy on the assault rifle in Unreal II). No guns that shoot a bunch of sharp shards out of their barrel around the normal bullet up to a certain distance like sorta shotgun blast Railjack had on PTS to add some unique CQC power-up to a Battle Rifle. No guns that bring down either shield or health realy quick but are mostly ineffective against the opposite. No guns that deal damage over time to the guys you've tagged them with (think how alien parasites work in Alien Swarm). No double-barreled rifles. No UBGL-capable LMG. No guns that spray the coolant that goes into the new vanu guns in a cone to inflict a concussion-like slowing effect. No LIGHTNING-spewing shotguns that deal damage all over the cone up to a certain distance instead of the usual pellets to kill things with SCIENCE. No sniper rifles with AOE damage or lash ammunition.

In short, the directive weapons are not interesting enough to make them worth grinding for outside of bragging rights. So let's just... throw those charts out and not go through the usual 'OP!' routine and try to make them desirable in some way that doesn't include making them have just plain better stats instead.

Please.

Last I checked recoil patterns on Orion and Carv are exactly identical. Orion got the movement modifier to compensate, Carv got the bullet capacity. If bullet capacity is such a huge thing the OP is trying to make it, why so many whine threads about Orion (or Betelgeuse, which is really an Orion)?

Cus the grass is always greener. Duh.

Please name me a top TR weapon that is entirely unmanageable.

TAR -> Pulls to the right and extremely manageable.
Jaguar -> Side to Side recoil but extremely manageable.
MSWR -> Pulls to the right and it extremely manageable.

Side to side recoil in this game isn't nearly as bad as bad TR players try to imply that it is.

superior accuracy, except with worse recoil than orion and worse recoil/accuracy than both MSWR and anchor

I had some serious doubts when you said the darkstar was wildly overpowering the TR assault rifles and terminus.

When you said there was a heat mechanic sidearm, you lost all credibility. But let's just say the immortal does have a heat mechanic, is it actually overperforming compared to **** like repeater, rebel, desperado, commie, underboss? According to what?

edit: whoops, i'm late to the party

Does anyone have an updated weapon stats page?

The more this discussion goes on, the more I feel like people are pulling out weapon stats that don't correspond to this page:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...OSWNaanFqSUVxLWc&f=true&noheader=false&gid=22

Probably because magazine capacity does not equal infinite ammo, nor does it remove the need to download with good fire discipline(as it does on the Beetlegeuse). Infact, I'd say the magazine capacity is offset but a very long reload, whereas the Orion gets a fast reload to offset the 50 rounds. The ability to completely disregard ammo for a high RPM LMG is a very good trait to have on such a weapon.

Also, there isn't a single solitary VS HA player who would give up their 0.75x movement mod for an extended magazine on their Orion or SVA. Having no bullet drop might not be much to write home about but let's not pretend the 0.75x movement mod isn't bloody amazing.

Exaggerating your point only makes you sound like you're being overly defensive. If these weapons are "extremely managable" then VS can be played while being asleep. Yepp, I also exaggerated!

Well, I didn't use the Immortal myself, but on the wiki it said it used a HEAT mechanic, so I didn't doubt it, especially since almost every auraxium weapon of the Vanu seemed to have one.

The Immortal has a KPU of 17,88
The next best sidearm, the President, has a 9,38 KPU... Problem is ofcourse, that all auraxium pistols have a very, very small but dedicated player base. These weapons have had only 3 to 4 users over a month. This does set some question marks about their power, as it is just the incredible skill these players show with pistols rather than what the average Joe will do with these weapons.

The same goes for the Darkstar and the other auraxium Assault rifles. But when you look at their player base, it's already bigger and gives a better indication. This isn't just one or two people who had an awesome day once in a month, these were more used weapons by up to 50 people, probably the best of the best with these weapons. And what do we see? Despite that all factions are using the best of the best to utilize their weapons, the Darkstar has 5.0 KPU more than the next best. From 33,33 KPU (Darkstar) to 28,64 KPU for the Unity. These are still incredible numbers of itself, but you shouldn't neglect a... 17%? increase in KPU with one weapon, especially when your player base contains the best users.

So yes, I apparently made a mistake concerning the Immortal, but the statistics don't lie about their power. The Vanu weapons just perform better, period.

If your experience doesn't match, check here: http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/
These are the live, actual usage stats calculated over a month, recalculated every day again. This means you can see the stats of every good day and killing spree, as well as the days where you get your face blown off just for spawning, this for the entire player base across all servers.

I didn't realize I was exaggerating my point at all. There isn't a single weapon in this game that I personally find hard to control. Unless you are outright terrible at FPS games, recoil is borderline a non issue.

If someone plays HA over 40% of their time in game does that make them an "HA"? Because if so I'm actually that VS HA player that uses the Flare the twice as much as any other weapon solely because I can equip it with SPA and ex-mags... and the Flare actually has less DPS than the SVA-88.

I would. I have always considered .75 to be overrated as very few people can actually use it to the full advantage.