[Suggestion] HA Re-evaluation

Perhaps I think about this game too much but I took it upon myself to address one of the problems as I see it with the current class model and heavies in specific. The problem is too many heavies.

Before you get all excited this is not a nerf type threads, it is a gameplay discussion. I know these kind of threads are few and far between in the Gameplay Discussion sub-forum but bear with me. If we are wanting to promote combined arms and variety as a fundamental gameplay and balancing mechanic. The over prevalence of heavies is a concern.

Main issue is heavies are too good at too many things, and the other classes are too niche in their roles. Heavy assault seems the like the default option for most people in the game. Their versatility, survivability and just ability to be viable in any form of combat versus other infantry or vehicles is probably main reason for this.

Overshield is too big an advantage versus any other classes in regards to combat. Effectively giving the toughest infantry class an extra rechargeable shield seems to be too good for the majority not to pick up.

How I would address this.

Two options, the easy way or the hard way. The easy way would be to tweak the current model of heavy assault forcing heavies to choose a sub-role, either a long range/anti vehicle, medium range brawler or a short range CQC brute force AI role.

Force a heavy assault to choose between short and long range effectiveness, vehicle or anti-infantry effective. To my mind their LMGs are and should be good for medium to long range engagements, but given the length of their barrel they should be far more unwieldy in CQC and hip-firefights. Rocket launchers should be good against entrenched infantry, but in CQC again how easy should it be to hip-fire. I personally think rocket launchers should have a similar arming distance as per under-barreled grenade launchers, to prevent the run around the corner into a rocket type gameplay.

Allow heavies to use carbines, they can already use SMGs and shotguns, give them more options in close ranges, but severely reduce the effectiveness of their long range guns in CQC, especially when hipfired.

As for the overshield, I think they should change that to be either small arms protection or flak/explosion based protection. Force them to choose what kind of damage the absorb. Currently they can absorb any damage thrown at them.

The hard way?

Medium assault – It came to me last night that heavies should become more niche and specialised for things and a common denominator class which is good at just being infantry. The default class which doesn't have super abilities or shields.

The problem is how to make this class appealing. I think that if you made medium assault the go to class for most types of infantry engagements, the foot soldier or mainstay of any rolling infantry attack. I'm low on ideas at the moment but I think they should have the most choice and versatility when it comes to weapons. Not be as touch as a heavy but tougher than the other classes.

So any thoughts?

I'll bite.

First you need to separate HA abilities into two roles, anti-infantry, and anti-vehicle. And assign their perks to each.

-Anti-infantry.
Overshield
LMGs

-Squad Support.
Rocket launchers.
Heavy "special" weapons. (use same slot as RL so it's either one or the other, not both.)
I would suggest allowing them to use up to ARs.

I also think the weapons should be laid out linearly and each class should be able to use "up to" a specific weapon. Meaning they can use that weapon or any of the weapons below/earlier than it in the list. Progression would be as follows.

Pistols-> SMGs-> Shotguns -> Carbines -> Assault rifles -> Battle rifles -> LMGs

The infiltrator specific weapons like sniper and scout rifles would be separate from the list. This would allow medics to use carbines (if they chose) and AI heavies to use carbines or ARs (again, if they want to).

The only thing left to do is decide which you call medium assault and which you call heavy assault.

If you can use a AR or a carbine why would you use a LMG?

You know, in most games where you get rocket launchers, you don't get one of the better anti-infantry guns too. In 1942 you were given a bazooka and a pistol for self defence. In 2142, a crappy SMG for self defence and a rocket launcher.

rocket launchers and LMG's could take the salem slot or the primary slot could be reduced to carbines/SMG's and not LMG's.

I was hoping this thread sinks. This has been discussed before many times.

My view: NO NEED TO CHANGE ANYTHING. Launchers are not as effective as C4 or mines or MANA AV, so actually LA and Engi are at least as good against vehicles - excepting air, but any small arms fire is as effective against air as the crappy launchers.

I still see plenty of people playing other classes, so the argument is invalid. Other classes can also do many things, so lets take them away and create twice as many classes. Eh.

How about they just take away HA shield ability.
They have a rocket launcher, why cant that be enough?

LMGs are already crap in CQC, what are you even talking about? the smallest cones of fire on hipfire are 2.5, compared to 1-1.5 on most real hipfire oriented weapons.

also lol @ allowing HAs to use carbines. if you want to see tears, letting an HA use an 845/800 RPM carbine will do the trick.

medium assault = medic, if they called it "assault" it'd be a bit too bf3ish.

LOL. Here we go with the new crusade.

Yeah, brilliant idea and make all the players who invested a lot into the class quit the game.

Yeah, SOE'd never do it and I probably wouldn't do it if I was in their position. That said, if I was in their position or had the ability too i wouldn't have made them how they are.

It's cool though, this isn't a full release and is a beta.

People play other classes, but most people play heavy assault because it is viable in almost all situations. Couple that with the best survivability and anti vehicle capabilities. Heavy assault anti-vehicle abilities far outweigh engineers or light assault. Lock-on launchers being the main reason for this. Mines aren't really anti-vehicle more than pop em down and you might blow something up. Heavies have access to C4 the same as Light Assault.

So your argument is invalid. The issue i'm trying to address is Heavy Assault are TOO versatile and able to counter anything in this game. None of the other classes even come close, I personally think it would be much easier to tweak heavies than to change all the other classes or introduce new classes. But the problem is that Heavy Assault is the default class, doesn't really encourage teamplay or class diversity and role selection.

You don't think people have invested certs, time and effort into things then to have them nerfed at a later date happens all the time. Most vehicles, max users and certain weapons have been nerfed or changed repeatedly, why would you think that them tweaking this would make anymore difference? Unless your confirming my belief that WAY to many play heavy and it is about time for a change?

LMGs maybe crap in CQC compared to say a shotgun, carbine or SMG. But the overriding trend of heavies to pop shield, bounce and spray seems to win them more battles than losing them. I would prefer it if people that used cover and aimed profit more than the bounce and spray fraternity, but it seems it is around 50/50 in my experience.

"Heavy assault anti-vehicle abilities far outweigh engineers or light assault. Lock-on launchers being the main reason for this."

Simply not true, MANA AV is much better long range.
C4 + LA (flying) is superior at short range.
Engi dropped mine does more damage.
MAX is much better at AA and any class can damage ESF with small arms - actually it is many times more effective than lock-on.

Lock-on launchers: you either go air or land, it does not work all situations and getting kills with them is not so easy, especially Hades use is very limited.
Non-lock on launcher: you need all ammo to kill a Sunderer, not easy to pull-off.

LMG is really not better than other weapons overall.

So many people play this class, because it can do many things, but other classes can also do many things and they are also played.
Let me guess: you go a lot 1 vs 1 against heavies and getting killed so you feel that they should be nerfed.

The carbines have the same max damage as the AR's in cqc, the only difference is the lower velocities and lower max damage. The only QQ that'de come of that is from the TR and is rightfully so. The NC shouldn't have the fastest firing carbine when compared to any other faction carbine/ar/lmg in the game.

That or the AMC should get a major buff in damage or sometthing.

How about because the Heavy Assault are the MAIN troops of the factions?

"The Heavy Assault is the only class capable of bringing LMGs and each empire's heavy weapons to bear on the enemy, the Heavy Assault is the backbone of any fighting force. Thanks to their Reinforced Exo-Suit armor and personal shield system, Heavy Assault troopers have high damage tolerance and a talent for front-line combat."

This is basically a whine thread because some non-HA wants a buff or edge in their capabilities.
Post in the Roadmap threads about your class instead.

You are aware that LMG hipfire is quite bad?
You are aware that shield popping slows down the user?

I just do not see this jumping and spraying from heavies that much, I see it a lot more from other classes.

Heavies are OP? Heavies need a nerf?
HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THE ENGINEER CLASS (YOU PLAY ALL THE TIME) LATELY?
You're second most played class is Light Assault at 90 hours, you've played Heavy Assault
for 45 hours, but you've played Engineer for 17 days and 15 hours.

I usually play Engineer, and I'm fully aware of exactly how much 'use' we get out of this
one class above all others to the point where I believe it probably does a little too much.

-XP from Ammo packs (great XP actually)
-AV Turret
-XP from repairing
-Only class for dedicated Vehicle drivers
-AV Turret
-Carbines
-AV Turret

FTFY

And honestly, the 'I took it upon myself' line never comes across well. It's not like we're
having a Prowler crisis that needs to be addressed or something.. Heavies having their
shield isn't a game breaking mechanic for 95% of users. Every Faction gets the Heavy.
"My biggest fault is that I care too much about others." Pretty good fault to have.

The easiest thing to do with heavies is get the Serpent (or your fastest spray carbine),
equip the INRV scope and then just aim for their head. It cuts through them like butter.
Or get any shotgun.. or stand off from a mile away and OHK them with the AV Turret.

If you're gonna cut out their Shield, then give them a flat +100hp over the other classes.

Looking at your thread creating history.. when you're not complaining about the forums,
or the game's performance then your beef is 'lag' or how much you hate this game? I'd
have to say that you're probably not the best person to address class fixes.

How would you like to carry a bazooka, and an 11 pound rifle along with your other gear and ammo in the field.

Why does stupid crap threads like this keep popping up? Seriously!!

has nothing to do with the thread whatsoever