HA NMG - Again!

Read my above post, which answers all of this.

Oh and btw, you don't even play as HA, you have no idea what you're talking about, lol. I've been on both sides of the fence and I can deal with HAs just fine, tip: playing flanking classes to their strengths instead of playing them as if they were HAs themselves helps

Going to bed, if you feel like spewing any more ignorance, you'll have to wait a few hours =)

Actually chief. I do play a good bit of HA though I mainly try to stick with it for when we need some all around offense for AI/AV, otherwise I stick with support roles and try not to rely too much on crutches. I know how easy the NMG is to kick in and have an advantage and I've barely upgraded the thing at all. Hence why I'm talking about it. But by all means keep ignoring basic facts to defend your playstyle crutch. I'll be here tomorrow to tell you the same basic truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

It's not a symptom though...

It's functioning as intended and designed within the structure of the game.

How is it not functioning as it's supposed to?

I think the issue has a lot less to do with HA shields, and more with how LMGs function as Assault Rifles in game. Guns like Orion and Carv work way to effectively at running and gunning and holding down the fire button. Say what you will about the godsaw but at least it functions like a LMG. If they tone down how AR like these LMGs are, the issue with shields wouldn't be so large.

Raise the help down recoil for LMGs by 3x, make movement penalty 2x higher, and reduce first shot multiplier by half. That would make them great as point defense while tap firing, but make them play less like ARs and more for what LMGs are for. Defense.

Funny how you don't even have 50 kills with a LMG, and I already refuted your crutch argument and you still present no arguments, no, repeating "it's an I-win shield because a dev said so" isn't an argument, in fact, it's a fallacy of authority, have a nice day.

If he actually presented an argument (aside from the "it's a crutch!", which I already refuted) then you might be right, but that's not the case, there's no central point to refute, so you can't really call it an ad-hominem

Dubious Anecdotal Evidence: The NMG is an IWIN-Shield

Factual Evidence: Bad players with <20% accuracy get the 'drop' on a Heavy, miss >80% of their shots and then get killed.

As for what Posse is saying, he's right. The HA excels in head on engagements, the LA and Infils excels in flanking engagements. Medics and Engineers excels in support and attrition based roles.

What is the difference between an LA or Inf Sniper who kills enemies before they ever see him, and a HA thatactivates his "I'M MEANT TO BE GOOD IN HEAD ON ENGAGEMENTS" utility to kill players who can't aim? Not alot.

You people keep coming out of the woodwork like demons from the Bible, awful arguments and euphemisms to boot. I say again, if the heavy assault shield gets nerfed, a Max or a team of Medics would do the same job a HA used to do. Only now, you wouldn't be able to kill them.

I will be a little empathetic and suggest a slight NMG cert increase however. Then truly good players are rewarded for having awareness (resist shield) and for simply being better than the opponent (adrenaline shield)

OK, I reda the OP but not the 13 pages.

But doesnt the OP kinda of show that HA when compared to LA is working as it should?

I think you may have failed to cook your stats correctly OP.

I'm not sure they've said that exactly they were going to add a wind up time to NMG & Adrendaline shield (for some reason after 2 years Live) and then people pointed out that this would simple result in:


1) No change if the wind up time was shorter than TTK (which would be utterly pointless).
or
2) Making Resist Shield the ONLY shield worth using (and NMG & Ad shields basically useless) if it was longer than TTK.




After that bombshell they seem to have gone rather quiet about it, probably mostly because to avoided either of the above results they'd need to redesign the NMG & Ad shield to function like the Resist shield (that is AS a proactive and not reactive shield).

Running over an open field is almost as easy as flying over an open field, unless you are one of the few using the drifter, and then even when the single LA get there he wont be able to take down the sundy by himself as an engineer can.

A HA is still more potent at keeping tanks away than C4, I have never seen a coordinated LA C4 squad, but i have seen multiple AV HA's squads, almost destroying all.

Do you really think LA deserves a nerf?
Is LA really more present on the battle field than, HAs, medics, engineers? After it is classified as an assualt class...
If you took away C4 from LA without compensation, you would have even less of them than now.

And the point of awarness is still viable, I can fend of almost all LA trying to C4 my tank, all it takes is the finger of the farm key for a moment an look around and be aware of everything, yes that takes a lot of skill, but so does taking out HAs with their shields up, and everyone is fine with that.

Just tell me your points about why LA should have a nerf? and why you think it wouldn't (if you even believe that) make it useless.

For a game that tried so hard to be Battlefield, you'd think they'd have gotten the dynamics between an "LMG" and an assault rifle more correct.

The issue is that base design ensures the HA's strengths are useful far more often. Playing LA is especially pointless in many fights because going for rooftops borders on completely non-viable if there're thermal tanks/air outside. And infil is just too fragile unless you have room to come from behind/the sides, plus often you're better off going HA to flank anyway since you can devastate with a 100 round LMG if you can find a good flanking route.

That plus nano + NMG is just absurd survivability in any shootout. It needs to be toned down in some way regardless of HAs just being the least situational infantry class.

Damn, you must be a wizard! Ninja-wizard even! How could you kill those HA with their zhiyeldz!

I wish my HA overshields were as Godly as the people here says.

I'd also like my fury flash to destroy harasser when charging them head on! But somehow I'm sure they'll keep on murdering me no matter how many times I try. Wonder why.

The thinking in our squads typically goes
0. Push evil forces off point(s).
1. Locate evil sundy(s).
2. Try and kill sundy with what you have fielded for us typically (3 HA 2 medic) x 2, 1 engy, one flex,

If the route is fought over to a stalemate we get 3 LA and kill the sundy.
Is LA overpowered overall no, is it over-powered against static ground forces and vehicles..yes..very much yes.

1 LA should only get one C-4. I wouldn't be against allowing that C-4 to replenish at a engy ammo box. In my opinion the fact that 1 LA can cripple an assault is too powerful and requires NO COORDINATION. That is why I feel LA is too powerful. HA's must number at least 2 to 3 to effectively counter armor and they must make a shot on a usually moving target that is likely aware of their presence.
LA usually kill via element of surprise and that's fine, but 1 guy should not be able to deploy 2 rapidly expendable packages from high above and destroy a spawn point or an MBT that costs 400 resources.

Engies have to run up or coordinate with an infil to do what one LA can.

I don't think it would make LA useless they are great shock troops for killing and placing beacons. They can get to points for a rapid re-secure with minimum exposure to enemy armor. They are great shock troops especially in tower fights but also great at destroying "stack" points for enemy troops such as the corner of buildings etc.

The killing power they have is higher than an infil because of LA's ability to carry C-4, I wouldn't take that away but they shouldn't be able to in one solo trip derail an entire offensive.

No, this is incredibly relevant to the discussion. I was playing as a SMG HA, and, yes, it can become nearly impossible to take me down in small fight situations. You should have just started tossing conc grenades at me.

I apologize for that. It is very, very cheesy. I feel guilty, but I do play HA exclusively now. There is no reason not to.

So your saying your HA is now able to withstand 35 rounds from an esf anti Infantry gattling gun when the rest of ps2 dies to maybe 7 rounds. Please explain.

I am fine with only one C4 at the time, heck even make that C4 weaker to sundies, but then it NEED to be free from resources, only being able to deal some damage once in a while and spending 100 resources on it.

That would I my opinion make make C4 less usefull when alone, but you wont have to spend infantry resources on it. (usefull for people who dont use boosters)

I still wont agree that a single LA is so powerfull against sundies, but I see what you mean, and I think this solution would help.

Hit detection glitch. I regularly have to put over 30 rounds into people even at point blank because half of my shots don't register with the server, even though their model on my screen reacts.

Here is my problem and why i think HA i stronger than other classes.

You all say shield is what make HA real heavy and without it he is nothink and its totaly normal to have it.

I say this aint true. Everythink make HA heavy. He have acces to large guns that never reload, he have bazooka and shield.

Here is my question - how that affects him? Is he slower than other classes? No
Does he turn slower than other classes? No.
Is he usefull in any situation like when u face max airplane or tank or infantry ? Yes
Does he have aces to all kind of utility - more powerful granades, utility granades (concusion ones) med kids and c4? Yes.
Can he survive usualy 1 hit K.O. hits? Yes

There is no drawback of playing heavy. He have answer to anythink. U meet infantry - i win shield or 1 hit bazooka in the face.
Tank comes arround the corner? No u dont have to run from it and feeling useless cuz you are heavy - bazooka in yanks face!
Same goes for airplanes. And while other classes die kn 1 hit from tanks/planes u can survive with shield.
Picka boo max kls are 100 times easyer than c4 ones.

No drawbacks playing heavy class, he have answer to anythink.