Fellow NCs...and you TRs, lets show VS support- SOE, unnerf Saron! Lets do something good

Post made it sound like you were talking about when it got nerfed because of the Harasser version and turned into the steaming pile it still is. The token change they made isn't nearly enough.

Sorry.

And who the hell is Paperlamp?

Meh, without the Saron nerf I'd never have equipped my death-dealing, one-shot, sniper rifle of a halberd on our Mag. Cert that thing out and it's a beast. It's hardly an AI weapon, but I kill more infantry with that than I ever did with a Saron.

Haha, I need to apologize to you for that. I was responding to another one of Paperlamp's posts and got them mixed up. Though he's another one of the TR who thinks the TR should have the best of everything, so both posts seemed to flow into each other.

Saron should only be buffed(as a VS speaking) the day after the NC AI tank weapon canister is it? and the Marauder are both up to the PPAs level of lethality.

Asking for the Vulcan to be worth even putting on my Tank isn't asking for everything though. It was perfectly fine pre-nerf, SOE just kneejerked and nerfed the Harasser version as well as the perfectly fine Prowler version.

The fact that it only does max damage up to 10 meters is ******* astounding.

Yea, I'm totally fine with the Vulcan being adjusted upwards.

The problem is that it's already on the tank with the highest DPS, so we have to be careful how the Vulcan adds to the Prowler's damage output.

That is to say an AP Prowler with a Vulcan should have the same (practical) damage output as an AP Vanguard with an Enforcer or an AP Magrider with a Saron.

The hard part about that is that you'd have to balance for the extra damage resistance of the Vanguard and the increased agility of the Magrider. The Vanguard should be easier to do because you can make the (practical) TTK of the Prowler and Vanguard pretty close. Harder to compare the Magrider because the Magrider's strength is not being hit in the first place, or rapid flanking.

you cant nerf saron without buffing the magrider in some way. give it magburner by default like harasser and let that slot be filled with other things

you cant nerf enforcer and shield without buffing the vanguard in some way.

The Prowler is supposed to have the highest DPS though. That is the entire strength of the Tank that makes it unique from the other MBT's. The Vanguard has Durability and Alpha Strike damage, the Magrider has mobility and no range limitations, and the Prowler has Speed and Sustained DPS.

Eg. If a Vanguard and Prowler start shooting each other with AV secondaries equipped, the Vanguard will take the early lead on damage, but as soon as it starts to reload the Prowler will surpass it because of faster reload speeds and the ability to keep its damage constantly going.

I do not support reverting the nerf on the saron. It's an AV secondary only, if you want something that can handle both then you should grab a halberd. It was too good at AI before and I am glad SOE nerfed it. They didn't touch it's intended role in the slightest (well recently).

Well ideally you adjust the two so the TTKs are each tank are the same against the other.

In other words if both tanks just try and shoot each other in the face, then it would take roughly the same amount of time for one tank to destroy the other. The victor of the outcome would be the one who was the most accurate or the best at maneuvering.

As it currently stands it takes 12 seconds for an AP Prowler to destroy a Vanguard from the front, and 16 seconds for an AP Vanguard to destroy a Prowler from the front.

So either you could reduce the TTK of the Vanguard against the Prowler, or increase the TTK of the Prowler against the Vanguard. Increasing Vanguard damage or decreasing Prowler damage would do the trick.

Now if you add in the AV secondaries then it changes once more. I believe that a Vulcan that misses about 30% of its shots can still maintain the same damage/time output of an Enforcer that hits 100% of the time.

With AV secondaries the TTK of the Prowler against the Vanguard drops to 6.5 seconds, and the Vanguard takes 8 seconds to knock out the Prowler. Again, the TTK favors the Prowler (assuming 100% accuracy with all weapons).

Now we should keep in mind the average accuracies of these weapons:
Prowler AP: 38.2%
Prowler Vulcan: 22%
Vanguard AP: 41.7%
Vanguard Enforcer: 35.2%

I think in the entire time I've played this game I've been killed more by my own landmines then by the sauron.

Why is it that nobody is allowed fun weapons >.<

Except the phoenix freaking love that thing regardless of its effectiveness

Petition to rename Saron the Assist Laser.

I think if you want to kill infantry in an open field, you should get good at Sniping. Not jump in some guy's MBT and play a rail-shooter

Yes I play for a Tanker outfit. Yes they'd kick my *** IRL for saying this. No I don't care. SOE's making the right moves here.
If we're really talking about the Secondary weapons honestly, I think a lot more people from every playstyle would agree that where they really need a buff is in an inherent damage Bonus versus Liberators. Most skillful 2/2 Tanker's rampages aren't ended by pure infantry (barring LA's) or other Tankers. They're ended by Dalton/Lolpod spam even when that 2/2 Tank is backed up by a Skyguard. WHY?? B/c not one of the Secondary weapons does **** all against Libs. Most of them can't even angle up high enough to hit one.

IMO both the Vulcan and Saron should be boosted back to better values. Atm no sane magrider person who has halberd and saron would go for saron.

The only nerf to the magrider I'm interested in is adding lateral velocity all projectiles so magriders doing their little F'ing "O" maneuver have a hell of a time aiming.

Like it was in BF2142, PS1, WWIIONLINE, every single FPS game that doesn't have cartoony physics.

Think of what the Liberator would be like if the vehicles velocity actually added to the projectile's velocity. It would be hella to aim when moving at top speed now wouldn't it. Same with magrider and their cheesy as "O" maneuver.

As an avid NC player and a decent tanker, I agree that with the OP.

Undo the Saron nerf. It was uncalled for.

Disagree.

Its an AV weapon. Per PS2 standard it is supposed to be utterly terrible at killing Infantry. The VS have the PPA which excels at farming Infantry. Enforcer was never better at it. It had less splash and a delay in firing each round. (at least it seemed that way; possibly due to the superior RoF of the Saron) With the Saron you could fire off a quick yet slightly inaccurate volley of shot, splashing all they way; or wait for the crosshair to shrink back down and fire extremely accurate shots - still faster than the Enforcer is even capable of.

If its outperforming TR and NC AV weapons at AI duties, then it need to be on par. End of story. Did I think needed done? No. But I also dont think it needs undone either.

eh even with this nerf the saron is probably still the best AI of the AV secondaries, though Vulcan is likely better at real short ranges. I gunned one yesterday, got several infantry kills, only realy noticed the difference once, normaly I just mag dump on the target anyway and that still kills em, and that hasn't changed. I will likely pick less LAs out of the air, now but other than that not a big deal. My driver was great mind you, lots of flanking and maneuvering, we killed so many prowlers sunders and lightnings before we ran into some tank mines droped by a fleeing harraser.

6 rounds per mag. it used to require 33% accuracy now it requires 50% and 65% if they use flak.
If you can land 4 shots with a low velocity on moving target....