No, but considering each one individually like this is pointless, because they all affect each other.
Sooo you expect everyone to switch class to a heavy when they go indoors? I have a better idea; how about whenever you step through a door your class automatically, instantly changes to a Heavy Assault! Does that sound fair to you guys? Apparently, that's the only class that's allowed to hope to achieve anything indoors. Don't you see? When one of the classes has a distinct advantage whenever it counts (in indoor fights) - all it breeds is poor gameplay. That's why all we see in biolabs are MAXes. How is this fun for anybody?
..That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that if you go into that situation, you need to recognize that you are at a disadvantage, and you need to look for ways to turn the tables. Perhaps peek and then go through a different door. Use numbers to your advantage. Throw a grenade in first. There are a lot of things you can do.
If you were a HA encountering another HA, you should be doing those things. You should always be attempting to turn the tables in your favor or extending what advantage you have in whatever ways you can, but the difference between LA and HA is that whatever efforts LA makes to turn the tables amount to less than what HA is capable of. If your HA opponent throws in that grenade, or uses numbers to his advantage, or goes in through a door you don't expect - what then?
Much sense. Much sympathy. Heavy too stronk. Seriously, man, you don't stand a chance versus a Heavy if you're an Engineer The Heavy is FINE where she/he is. If you keep dying because you use a PDW at +30 meters, then you deserve it.
not gonna make this a 3v1 shouting contest, so I am just gonna reiterate my opinion and leave it at that. I feel that HA has a greater advantage against LA in their domain than LA do over HA on the contraire. I feel HA has less of a penalty for the misuse of their ability than LA I feel both of these issues can be fixed by increasing the drain rate of the shield. I feel a good baseline is 4 seconds, this allows: The shield to provide a full advantage in the close in fights which are the HA's domain At longer ranges, or in protracted battles using skirmisher techniques to which the line fighting HA is not suited, it does less to cover it's deficiencies. In exchange, the shield should provide more resistance to explosives, further highlighting the HA's role as the one who sits on the point, or at the edge of the door, with their better ability to take grenade spam, and it should recharge faster, so it feels less like a one per life get out of jail free card, and more like an ability, that can be dealt with much like any other but is also consistently available to the class, I feel 20 seconds is a good baseline for NMG recharge when maxed out, maybe 30 at base.
You can't just throw two people in a sterile situation, with the only variable being the class, and draw any realistic conclusions. In our example of the LA and HA, yes the HA might come out on top. But how does that stand throughout ALL permutations of the scenario? Your control is too sterile. It's a great start, but you then need to test that with all combinations of weapons, locations, movement techniques, ammo counts, ammo types, weapon attachments, population levels, skill levels, etc etc to really get a full picture. Only then can you get anything conclusive.
Then he outplayed a person who was using a class in a situation it shouldn't have been in - a corner that it couldn't get out of. A LA (in our example) probably shouldn't be in that building to begin with unless there is an ambush spot somewhere in the room - above the frame of the doorway for example. The LA shouldn't be played in the same way you would play a HA. It requires a different mindset. But you already know this.
And when the opposite happens - a LA pushes HA into a corner he can't get out of - you're still nowhere near guaranteed victory. You might get the kill if you can put in enough damage before he can activate the shield, or he might activate it very fast and stomp you with equal DPS and better HP, causing you to die or flee, or die attempting to flee. So only go into buildings if you intend to camp above a 5 cm wide door frame? No.. That's not good gameplay. And no one is claiming it should be, which you already know as well.
This would screw NC very hard. The Anchor (and EM6) are already inferior in terms of ttk for the average player. They do perform slightly better in the hands of high HSR players but thats just a small demographic. You can cite the Jackhammer but the other heavies already have shotguns + the baron.
Theoretical TTK is inferior by 0.02 seconds to 0.04 seconds (compared to Orion/MSW-R), yes. A very small difference. In practice though, stats.dasanfall reveals the average TTK of Anchor is 1.82 seconds on LA, while Orion and MSW-R are 1.89 and 1.91 seconds, respectively. It's just faction diversity, nothing more. No particular faction would be screwed by removing SMG's and PA's from heavies. Also, you could say the opposite regarding TR and VS whose hard hitting LMG's have inferior TTK compared to SAW.
What about ttk in heavy vs heavy combat? Assuming both have average accuracy (lets say C+ - B accuracy on stats.DA). Does the orion/msw's much higher dps help?
I'm not sure how to look up stats specific to C+-B accuracy users, but I would guess the average numbers on each weapon's stats page represents those users pretty well, because C+ and B are both somewhere around the middle of the pack. But before I look it up... I would guess no, the higher DPS doesn't help much. The higher damage per shot and the subsequent effectiveness of headshots should be emphasized even more in heavy vs heavy fights because of having more HP and being easier to hit. Let's see.. MSW-R: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/7254 Orion: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/80 Anchor: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/7236 Normally you'd expect the starter weapon to do worse than other weapons, but Orion is actually doing even better than MSW-R which isn't a starter weapon. On the other hand, for some reason SVA-88 is doing better than Anchor: http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/7276 It has the same DPS, but 143 damage instead of 167, and slightly worse hipfire too. And it's half the cost in certs which implies it's used more by less experienced players... Not sure why it's performing better on average when Orion and MSW-R aren't.
Just FYI those average TTK things are calculated by plugging in average accuracy scores in to the weapon stats. They don't actually have anything to do with how long it takes people to kill each other in real encounters. If a weapon was actually better at killing HAs that other weapons of similar DPS it wouldn't show up there.
Seems to me that OP isn't switching class. The support support classes and Infiltrators get their XP through their equipment and getting a few kills along the way. The only way for Heavies to get the same amount of XP is to get kills. Furthermore, Heavy Assault shields do not give more kills. They just make it possible to live longer. If you're a support classes getting beaten in a 1 v 1 against a Heavy, you are obviously out of position and lack common sense. Shoot him in the back, get above him, hide behind something. Anything but take him 1 v 1. It's a very simple concept, but unfortunately the whiners have got their wish; a recent Q&A with the reveals that the nerf is coming soon: https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/1-hour-dev-q-a.201256/#post-2926091 Real ******* shame.
Honestly, LA using JJ during the act of firing, he tends to lose.....I have gunned down a number of LA's who take flight and hover around me firing. LA JJ is best used to get up high, wait till the enemy pass, flop down behind, unload into 1 or 2 then fly off. Entirely different play style then a HA. But yeah, in a 1v1, head to head, equal skill, umm, if the HA didnt win, something would be off.
I'm just going out on a limb here, but are the same people who dislike HA shields the same people who don't want MAXs in the game?
Could be, if you're referring to AI MAXes. I don't think critics of the HA shield care about AV/AA MAXes. What significance would that have though?
Personally I support heavies having shields as well as AI MAXes being in the game because I feel like It adds tactical depth and stresses teamwork. Almost all the OP arguments stem from the fact that in a hypothetical 1v1 situation of equal skill a heavy/MAX wins. Statements like that consistently disregard that Planetside 2 is a combined arms game, not a dueling game, where true 1v1 situations seldom happen. For reference, there are 2 dedicated flanking classes (Light assault, Infiltrator), 2 support classes (Engineer, Medic), and 2 Frontline classes (Heavy assault, MAX). Heavy assaults have higher firepower and survivability at the cost of having little to no support or stealth options whatsoever. Medics and Engies trade raw damage for a myriad of support options, being able to sustain a squad almost indefinitely, while Infilitrators and Light Assaults have lower survivability or versatility respectively, but are the best suited to flank and offer reconnaissance due to their exaggerated stealth and mobility. If you are playing as either LA or Infilitrator you should be avoiding head on 1v1s, and instead use your stealth and mobility to flank and outmaneuver your opponents. Medics should revive and top off their team as often as possible, and focus on keeping the squad alive rather than straight up hunting for kills. Same for engies. Keep the MAX units alive, keep the squad supplied. Lock down firing lanes with turrets, and overall support the squad instead of rushing in headfirst. Heavies and MAXs especially should be trying to find 1v1s where they know they can bruteforce a fight, and act as the speahead for the squad. Most of all they need to be aware that they are the most obvious targets, and will be taking the most fire. If you want definitive tests though, I'd suggest taking 2 squads of 12 and have them take turns either attacking or defending a base against each other. One squad may ONLY use Heavy assaults, and cannot switch to any other class at any time. The other squad may not use heavy assaults or MAX units. That would either make or break the idea that heavies are OP.
