Engineer Suggestions

Discussion in 'Engineer' started by MiTHMoN, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. MiTHMoN

    Before I start on what I think should be altered, I'll first say I like the classes and find Engineer to be the most fun of all 6. Even so, I think every class needs tweaking and to be more unique and fun.

    1) Deployable MANA Turrets. Different turret variations (like rocket launcher/anti-air turrets) aside, I think there should be more sidegrades/upgrades to the actual AI turret.

    I like the turret, and I use it often. I've been reading a lot about them being suicide against snipers and tanks, and them being lit up makes them easy targets at night especially. I don't have these problems, because I don't use them in the open, simply because with or without the turret you are an easy target to anything when you're in the open. Anybody who is complaining about turrets not being effective isn't using them properly in my opinion, and if these people were left to 'balance' these turrets, then Engineers would be severely overpowered. Deployable turrets aren't there to make you a God, they are another tool to be used to help you and your team win fights while still having an exploitable weakness.

    The current turret is nice, but here's what I think should be changed/kept:
    Increase the rotation range by 5-20 degrees. This will still allow you to be flanked or even killed from the front just the same, but makes turrets a bit more effective in certain places. I've had times where my turret positioning is slightly off, so I've had to reposition several times to get it just right.
    Raise the barrel 5-30 cm. Some fences and barriers physically block the turret's bullets and it makes turrets very ineffective in certain spots when it can be easily fixed.
    Faster overheating. Despite the fact I use these turrets, for the sake of balancing I think the turret should overheat faster. I don't use any upgrades on the turret, and it barely overheats unless I'm just messing around in spawn or killing a wave of 5+ enemies.
    Damage to vehicles/armor. Like Basilisk turrets on Sunderers, I think these turrets should do at least some damage against light tanks, Sunderers and other such vehicles. For balancing, I wouldn't suggest full damage, but partial damage so that when I find an unmanned vehicle I can actually destroy it, or when only vehicles are in sight soI'm not useless (I don't use mines/C4 yet, but even so I think it should be at least a cert upgrade).
    Accuracy upgrade/sidegrade. As a personal preference I'd love for my turret to be more accurate, or maybe have an alt-fire that shoots at half the speed but more precisely.
    Keep the head vulnerable. Despite what some people are saying it is a necessary weakness.
    No side/back shields. Necessary weakness. If you get flanked fair and square, die with dignity.

    2) Ammo packs. This is less of an issue, but just generally the Ammo packs seem harder to place down than they should be. When it comes down to it, nobody cares about exact positioning of ammo packs, so some kind of smart placement would be nice, where you attempt to throw it down, and it finds a nearby (within say 2 meters) spot to place itself down.
    Also, the thing where you go to your 5 and press B to switch to your second Ammo pack, why not have it on your 6?

    3) Repair tool. This also applies to the medical applicator too. Stop overheating if not repairing. If my repair/heal tool isn't physically doing anything, stop it from overheating. If I'm lagging or slightly out of position, I don't like my repair/heal tool to overheat when it's not even reparing/healing something, because that makes no sense.
    Smart targeting that prioritised damaged units would be nice so that troll MAXes who were full health didn't purposely block me from repairing damaged MAXes, with me having to run in circles just to get at the injured one.

    Overall, I think this class is always going to be needed (because of the Repair and Ammo capabilities that no other class has), yet it still has 'fun' uses such as the Turret and mines/C4.
    Whether you agree or not, explain why. Keep in mind to look at things from not only the viewpoint of an Engineer, or even an ally of the Engineer, because everything needs to have its strengths but also its weaknesses.
    • Up x 1
  2. Tatanka

    I wouldn't mind some engineer UI enhancements that were staples of PS1.

    1) Indicator that displays the number of currently deployed/max deployables. I don't have time to pay attention to kill spam and hop that I don't waste valuable infantry resources by redeploying beyond my max mine count.

    2) Map icons displaying friendly deployed mines. Would make coordination with other engineers that much easier when deploying mine fields.
    • Up x 2
  3. Falanin

    I agree with all the ideas that the OP proposed
    • Up x 1
  4. JJangles

    These are all wonderful suggestions. Although, the medical applicator does not overheat.

    • Up x 1
  5. Xebov

    I agree with all of your Suggestions, except the one below.

    The Reason why im not agree on this is the following. You currently have no head Protection from the front and a little bit from the sides (through the shape of the shield). Turrets are also made for blocking passages. Currently (without head protection) you can simply be killed, by a spy or any other class if the player has a good aim. If you had a head protection, players would be forced to find a workaround for the turret, like using grenades, missiles or shooting from positions above/below/behind/sides. In my opinion this would give turrets a little more usability on the field to black passages without beeing sniped away after 5s and forcing anemies to find other ways around the battlefield besides from running straight into it.
  6. Nehlis

    A thread suggesting changes that are not all about overpowering their favored class, and instead gives insight to balancing the game? Shamelessly bumping. Godspeed to you OP.
    • Up x 2
  7. Icebergg

    I'm up in the air about not being able to headshot from the front. Maybe have a shield up while not firing, but while firing, the frontal shield drops and exposes the gunner. It doesn't take much ballistic fire to destroy a turret placement, so getting rid of the headshot isn't going to slow down the death of the gunner by all that much, it just won't be possible for 1 person to run straight at the turret and instantly kill the gunner while the gunner had placed several shots into him. Is it possible to headshot with the turret? I don't think I have ever gotten a headshot bonus from it, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

    I've had the idea of different turrets for a while, I thought they would eventually make it into the game, which is why I never posted anything on it, but as seeing that ACE blueprints got dropped from beta, I think the base AI turret is all we're going to get. Anti-Tank weaponry would be great, some wire guided rockets, but with slow reload times to balance it out. AA guns would be a bit trickier, maybe have it replace the turret with one of the seated turrets from PS1, so shooting up into the air wouldn't make your character have to ly down to do it, lol.

    ACE blueprints would be awesome, I would like to see the return of Spitfire turrets and automated sentry guns on buildings. I thought automated guns on the bases in PS1 worked quite well, as they didn't target squishies, only heavy vehicles that were in motion. Sensors were also a great idea in PS1. I see that infiltrators get a gun that shoots out a sensor now, but I liked the semi-permanent motion sensors.
  8. Krawdad

    I like the ideas you proposed here.

    One thing that I would like to see, and it might fix your troll MAX issue, is that teammates walking in front of your repair beam shouldn't disrupt the repairing. It's really annoying when repairing MAXs like you said, or even Sundys in very crowded situations.

    And one suggestions to the OP and others that have said that the MANA turret is not very accurate -- try using 1-3 shot bursts with it. In my experience, the first shot is pinpoint accurate and the next couple are right there with it. If the render distance is ever fixed, I will snipe the **** out of people with my turret.

    Hardest part about it for me is getting my sensitivity low enough when in the thing. In all other vehicles I have to max out the mouse dpi switch, but the turret is way too sensitive even on the lowest setting.
    • Up x 1
  9. MiTHMoN

    Agreed. Although I never played PS1.

    I think this should be added to help with smart targeting.

    Though I didn't think to do this, I'd still rather an automatic fire option that is pinpoint accurate. Not for sniping, that's for Infiltrators, but instead for picking at that Heavy Assault or Infiltrator that keeps ducking behind cover and leaving their shoulder exposed, because the gun's accuracy isn't allowing me to finish them off.

    Maybe if my ideas are worth anything I should make suggestions on the other class forum sections, once I've played this game for a bit longer.

    EDIT: Also, regarding the vulnerable head on the MANA Turret, I have a new suggestion for a sidegrade. A sidegrade that trades deployment speed for head protection. Let's say it takes 3-5 times longer for the turret to materialise, but fills in the open space to the head on the turret shield.
    One main reason I think the head should be vulnerable, is because inside buildings I'll sometimes come across a group of enemies, and I'll be alone and be forced to run, naturally they follow me, and if I am fast enough to place down a turret I can kill multiple enemies by myself on such short notice. It would be kind of unfair to them if they don't even get a chance at killing me when they 3 vs 1 me.
    Also, if you took the time to set up a more protected turret, I feel the enemy should take that extra time to flank you instead of an Infiltrator just dropping you within the first 3 seconds of getting on your new turret.
  10. Riftmaster

    Tend to agree with most points.

    Would indeed be quite useful if turret was just slightly taller so you could actually place it on a balcony and shoot over the rail, instead of trying to find a box or just the right position to place it ON the balcony... The extra traverse would be nice but might be too OP, dunno...

    Def leave the shields heat as is, or as he says increase the heat gain. no upgrades and I have to hold down the trigger for quite a bit to have it require cooldown.

    One thing in point 2...As I understand it, if you hit B with your turret deploy thingy out (It's called an ACE), it changes modes to dispense ammo packs - thus you could dump the ammo pack in 4 and equip a heal pack or HOT, perhaps mines, or maybe C-4. OR so I've been told.

    As for point 3, I completely agree that the repair tool should deactivate/be unable to activate if the target you are attempting to repair moves out of range or is fully repaired. Is irritating when I am trying to repair a vehicle and only realize my aimpoint was slightly off after my overheat bar is half full. Or if the bastard moves. :p
  11. G-wiz15

    first off, the MANA turret is the one with the shield right? and if so why cant it be operated by anyone but the engineer who put it someplace(should be fixed) and i also think we should be able to upgrade to a auto-turret that could be manned and more accurate. missle are cool too. im new here so dont have slam fest or nothin
  12. Kid Gloves

    I disagree on leaving the head exposed (though I'd be fine for this to be an upgrade/sidegrade, and the deployment speed tradeoff makes sense). The reason for this is because of the way render distances work and the fact the MANA counts as a vehicle. Being able to be picked off from front on by a combat medic I can't see and thus can't shoot / respond to is old.

    The rest of the MANA upgrades I would happily trade for a head shield. It doesn't need to be godly, it just needs to not be a deathtrap for players who don't have the latest, greatest computers or in crowded fights.

    And yes, I'm talking indoor fights here. There are very rare situations where deploying a MANA outside makes sense.
  13. Sienihemmo

    I don't get why the head needs to be exposed. I mean, I never headshot gunners, I do it the proper way which is to either flank him, or just toss a grenade at his feet. If you can flank him, you can knife him to death before he can even get out of the turret. I can't think of any place where you could deploy the turret and be totally impervious to both flanking and grenades. Besides, it's much more rewarding when you skip the whole lame headshot business and do it like they do it in the movies.

    Plus, I think the turret should really be usable by all friendlies, or at least squadmates. Then I could put the turret down and have a friendly use it to give me covering fire while I repair a MAX or something.
  14. Relad

    I definitely respect what you do but would still take full advantage of the easy headshot. I understand what you all are saying about "balance", but I get on a turret outdoors and I get headshotted within less than a minute. That's unless I position the turret in a much less than ideal firing position (I.E. can only really damage the person before they can easily get out of the way, so basically only doing slight damage). Logically speaking, I don't think someone would design a turret with an obvious gap in protection. That's just stupid. If it has a limited turning radius, and the user can be one-shotted by a tank, I don't really see that as OP.

    Just give the Turret less health so if it's destroyed, the user is destroyed along with it. I constantly see users killed long before their turrets are. They should make player armor as strong as what that turret's made out of if that's the case ;) Or, better yet, the shield fails after being hit enough, similar to the Jackal or Shield Placements in Halo.
  15. Pockets

    In this world? Oh I think they would design things with defensive gaps. I mean, base and outpost layouts are utterly horrible for actual defense and in the future we have apparently forgotten the defensive value of doors.
  16. Relad

    In the future everyone studies and emulates Mr. Magoo.
  17. Riftmaster

    Hey we've got energy shields man. with the generators on the outside for easy access by attackers...o_O
  18. Pockets

    Ah right. Have to be good hosts after all. I'll set up the buffet for them.
  19. Relad

    Oh and my bad on the Jackals comment. There's a small gap in their shield where their hand/gun is. That's just bull ****. ;)
  20. MiTHMoN

    The way I see it is that the MANA Turret isn't overpowered the way it stands, and I like that. It's like any other gun in a way.
    -Unlimited ammo
    -Partial shield
    -Decent gun (accuracy/fire rate/damage)
    -Limited rotation
    -Shield doesn't cover back/sides/head
    -Takes time to set up

    What some people seem to be overlooking, is this Turret isn't a win-machine. You don't deploy it and automatically crush all enemies. If you deploy out in the open, that is your mistake. If you're going to deploy it in a situation where it isn't ideal, why not just use your carbine instead?

    Think of it like this. If you're trying to defend against a Heavy Assault as Engineer you have a few options. You could use your carbine, sidearm, knife, grenade or turret. The first 3 you'd probably lose out (assuming equal skill) because of the HA's shield and superior gun. You could tactically throw a grenade and hope for the best, but nades are limited and hard to use consistently. If you set up the MANA Turret beforehand (being prepared), all you have to do is aim at this HA's head and shoot, and he will lose. That's a 1v1 against the strongest infantry vs infantry class. If on top of that, he wasn't expecting you to be in a turret, or maybe he didn't use his ability, or maybe he wasn't a HA, then you'll likely take little to no damage and be able to repeat against other enemies who come in after. This in no way means you have to use the turret, because I've personally killed 7 in a row by myself using only my Solstice, then getting cleaned up by a MAX.

    My point is, use the turret when it's going to be effective. Part of this game is learning when to use any given thing, and when not to. I don't spawn as Infiltrator when I know I'm going to fight in close quarters against HAs and MAXes, for example (unless of course Infiltrator is particularly good in close quarters, in which case I'm sorry for a bad example).

    That being said, if you really want to fortify a spot, and want your head protected while on a Turret, then go ahead and push for the cert sidegrade. I have my head open when I use my turret, and the vast majority of my deaths while on turret are from grenades and flanking. The only time I die from being shot from the front is when I am overconfident and place my Turret on top of a building, and those times I deserve to die. If you are shot off your turret (bar when you're outnumbered), then I think you deserve it.

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