Scout Radar should not be changed whatsoever. This means still having people standing still or "crouch walking" being detected. If someone paid thousands of Certs to get radar, they deserve to see you camping in their base. If this upsets you, put in the time to get radar on your own Flash and level the playing field. I'm really not trying to put anyone down here, but honestly, if you're blaming Scout Radar for your deaths, you're not playing at the same level as others.
isnt the Flash Scout Radar the counter to Infiltrator stealth? It has the same slot as the Wraith Cloaking Device so as an Infiltrator you have to chose. I use the Scout Radar sometimes i go to a (the next) Base. So i can put it at an area, that I can now define as Safehouse. There i can go if i am hunted. There I will see from what direction the enemy comes. All Houses have more then one Entrance=Exit If the Flash goes down, i am sure about 2 things. - My Safehouse isnt safe. - The Enemy is smart AND knows that i am still here. I, in his position would take a Flash with Scout Radar to find me. So its time so look after him, or to go If you allready hack the Vehicleterminal you may hear him by destroying it. The ESF with Scout Radar are very Powerfull. But they are skilled for farming Infantry. Go to an Infantryterminal, hack it shoot twice with a Rocketlauncher in the direction of the ESF and it will flee (usually you need not to hit him).
In between battles this is exactly what I do with my ESF - run a search pattern around recent battlegrounds, -slowly- (but not predictably, I'd rather not be 'decimated'), either finding people by drawing fire on purpose or else pinging them with my 200m radar. 10 seconds isn't going to help you. And when I see that dot I don't give up the search until one of us is dead. Especially if it's an infiltrator. I've even on occasion jumped out and shot a dart if they're particularly troublesome. When the target is an infiltrator, as in your example above, there is -no- counter. I've spent 91 hours in my ESF, and the vast majority of that has been hunting red dots on my way to battles, or cleaning up after battles. It's extremely effective. I actually feel bad for the infiltrators I spot that actually try to hide and lose me. They rarely ever do, unless they've found a rock crevice that I can't reach or land near.
Lol, scout radar does not cost thousands of certs. A functional recon dart, on the other hand, does. Anyone can get enough certs for a flash scout radar in a half an evening's gaming. I don't blame it for my deaths. I *use* it more than I'm a victim of it and would suffer if it was nerfed in that respect. Most of my kills each night are a result of scout radar and few of my deaths are. But I don't see the logic in having scout radar be superior to recon darts. Just swap the motion-sensing functionality and it would be greatly improved. And it would give people a *chance* of surviving, forcing an ESF to remain in place (vulnerable) while you stop moving and wait if that was the source. If a flash is the source, it's trivial to find and blow up.
First off, I said "if someone paid thousands of Certs", not that they are each 1,000 Certs. However, to fully upgrade the Flash and an ESF, it would cost you 1,700 Certs total (a.k.a. "thousands of Certs"). Secondly, I fully support buffing the dart. I have also fully upgraded my dart and find it mildly annoying that it only detects motion. Range and scan rate are just fine in my opinion, but they should detect an enemy whether he's moving or not. Scout Radar, however, does not need changing. It works exactly as intended. No modification required.
The scout radar is too large and too passive with no way of knowing you have been detected nor any way to influence or adjust your play to in turn counter it. It is a very easy, very general, hard counter to an entire class. Additionally, people have no problem spawning a flash just for this purpose as there is no arguable reason not to - it is essentially a free hard counter that only needs one out of dozens of people in the area to take 5 seconds to do and lasts for a long time. Basically, your argument is this; Infiltrators can cloak now and again to remain undetected; when not cloaked they should be detected if in the large area covered by the flash module. If this is intended I want options on my flash for countering other classes; Since medics heal now and again; any time they are not healing they have a damage over time if in the large area covered by the flash module. Heavies get a damage shield/resist now and again; any time it is not in use they take more damage if in the large area covered by the flash module. LAs get to fly now and again to allow them to move faster and get over objects; any time they are not using this ability they move slower and can not jump if in the large area covered by the flash module. Engineers can give out ammo packs to very quickly replenish ammo; when not near an ammo pack they lose ammo very quickly if in the large area covered by the flash module.
@Aimeryan Ha, your off on quite a few things. The radar is not a counter to anything. It's just radar. And while I do agree with the fact that Infiltrators should show on radar while they're not cloaked, I obviously disagree with everything else you said. All the other classes show on radar just like the Infiltrator. It's not like they're without penalty, so why are you saying we should penalize them even further? You don't make sense. If you would have actually read the thread, you would have seen that I have already stated that there should be a notification when you show up on someone else's Scout Radar. As far as the ranges go, they correspond to the vehicle's speed. Since ESFs are very fast and agile, they have the greatest range. If the range of an ESF's radar were only 50m, you would never detect on the ground while flying at cruising speeds. Also, it takes 850 Certs to get to the max range, which is a sizable investment, that should be met with a significant reward. And as I've already stated multiple times, if you played with a squad, radar would be a non-issue. Why are you so against it? If you're constantly trying to solo-cap bases and losing fights to someone with radar, you need to evaluate your play. It's risk vs reward. If you're going to run into a base by yourself, then be prepared to be engaged by someone else who's made the decision that you'd be an easy kill. Judging from your avatar you play Infiltrator most of the time. Why don't you shoot a scan dart? Why don't you stay in buildings when there's an ESF trying to kill you? I honestly say this without meaning to be rude: You may need to re-evaluate your strategies in order to survive an enemy with radar. It's not that radar is broken, it's your strategic planning that needs work.
Obviously, you lack the logical mind required to have a decent argument with; I'm not bored enough right now to bother with you. I'll simply leave it at stating that infiltrators are meant to, at least in part, remain undetected to be successful. With the way the scout radar works this is impossible, unless your whole operational time only requires 12 seconds. There needs to be a way to remain undetected by scout radar if you do the right things, otherwise it can not be countered. I like some of the other suggestions here; make it like the dart radar - can only be detected while moving.
Yes, the point of the Infiltrator is to infiltrate for the rest of your squad/army. If you're going solo, you're not going anywhere. Period.
Radar nullifies the suppressor. So you could say radar is a counter to the suppressor attachment. Radar nullifies infiltration. An infiltrator can only stay cloaked for 12 seconds. Radar is a counter to infiltration. It's what I use when I think there are infiltrators nearby. And it works. A bunch of easy red dots on your mini map. So when that enemy squad tries sneaking in with their infiltrators and suppressors. You know exactly where they are. One question xluryan: Do you have scout radar unlocked for that mosquito of yours?
You've based your conclusion on a straw man argument of my OP. I included some brief examples of how scout radar can limit battlefield engagements or make certain tactics impossible because, as it exists now, there is no way to counter it short of finding and destroying the vehicle (which may not always be possible). That's assuming you've even realized there was a scout radar vehicle in the area. Those examples apply to solo, small squad, and large squad based situations. As for "risk vs reward", what's the risk associated with popping a Flash radar vehicle and parking it? It doesn't scream "RADAR HERE!". It doesn't tell your opponents they are being picked up on radar. The vehicle cost is miniscule. In other words, for the benefit it gives there is little to no risk associated with using it. Now if I want to spend certs to nullify or reduce the effectiveness of radar picking me up but in doing so I now get instagibbed by mines, not only would that be "risk vs. reward" but it would open up more varieties in gameplay options.
Of course I do. And on my Flash as well. I also have a highly upgraded Infiltrator class. What's your point? And if you're defending a base, you should pull a vehicle with radar. That's what home field advantage is all about. But there's nothing stopping the enemy squad from bring their own Scout Radar Flash along with, is there? On the flip side, if a full squad of soldiers is invading a base with only one defender, and they're unable to take it, then it's not the radar that's keeping them down. It's a lack of skill, plain and simple.
NO, the defender doesn't have to choose risk vs reward. They're defending; it's their home base. Pulling a vehicle to defend is smart, and should not be risky. The attackers are the ones choosing risk vs reward. The more people they bring, the less risky it will be. If a single soldier wanders into a base and tries to cap it alone, that's extremely risky, and rightly so, because it's also extremely rewarding.
This explains this You're against You're against someone standing perfectly still or moving at an incredibly slow pace. Because you spent a lot of certs. Your solution is for the other party to bring radar of their own to level the playing field. My solution does the same thing. If no one knows where the other person is... that is also a level playing field. Except the person crouch walking is at the disadvantage of you know... moving incredibly slow.
Radar should be left as is. People using radar on vehicles are already sacrificing crucial slot to be able to use it. I'm sure there will be some kind of implant used to counter it in the future.
100 meters cover the whole smaller base and half of an amp station. If you seriously believe that those cheap *** radars are fine then you're simply one of those bads who rely on it to get an upperhand on your opponents.
Someone is very frightened they might lose their radar player crutch. Here's why: They're spamming this thread with posts defending radar in big bold gold letters.
Scout Radar directly affects Infiltrator gameplay and abilities more than any other class or unit. 1) It gives away the Infiltrator Class Tool ability to any other class, ESF, or Flash. (even many Infiltrators are using Scout Radar as an improved version of their Class Ability) 2) It has an effect that counteracts the Infiltrator Class Ability.* That is why this thread is here in the Infiltrator Forum Section and why many Infiltrators are speaking out against Scout Radar. The Infiltrator is a messed up class. It's got TONS of problems: 1) growing (new bugs are added faster than old bugs fixed) sea of bugs in key areas: hacking, darts, cloak, sniping, etc. 2) they have only 2 Primary Weapon types that are used widely: Bolt Actions and SMGs (I used to add VS Semi-Auto Sniper on that list, but the current mini-sway hold breath bug is killing trying to 2x headshot at range) 3) they have lower Shields than anyone else 4) they can't damage vehicles (unless they use a turret) 5) their abilities are positioned to continue to get worse from Current Power creep (Nanoweave vs. Sniping, Scout Radar vs. Cloak, Scout Radar vs. Recon Dart, etc.) 6) the latest SOE announced attempt to "buff" an Infiltrator area (Scout Rifles) is widely regarded to have only made the one thing that was widely being used in that area to become bad 7) it is a very underplayed Class 8) there is some debate regarding the usefulness of Infiltrators in Team Play Tons of problems does not automatically mean underpowered. There are tons of vids of Infiltrators still doing neat stuff. But the more the class slips, the more it is losing power, and many of the looming problems definitely threaten to spiral to a point where the Class does suffer major power and playability hits. If you give our Class Tool away, and you nullify our Class Ability, what are we left with? Sniper or being an outclassed Infantry. SOE has announced they are "updating" ("revamp" vs. "update"?) the Infiltrator Class in May. Read #'s 1-8 above. That is an established track record. It's just really hard to imagine SOE is gonna somehow comprehend, address, "fix", and care about the class going forward. Especially given how they did with the Scout Rifles. With the Scout Rifles they announced "buffed" and "drastic changes" and "viable". They seemed to have a "theory" on how weapons can work at "close", "medium", and "long" ranges. But the game is not designed with such a respect of specific ranges. A narrow, specialty "medium" range gun is crushed by High Power multi-range guns: Bolt Actions are better at finesse use and offer more usable at more ranges, and other class weapons flat out crush it at non-finesse use and they also have more usable ranges. The actual areas in which the Semi-Automatics did have some measure of use (Aim Accuracy, Hip Fire) were drastically nerfed, making these guns even less usable then before the "buff". The reason why we fight against Scout Radar is because it's one of the only areas that we can put up a fight to stop the Power Creep threat. Implants are on the Roadmap for May. If that is the Infiltrators counter to Scout Radar, then ok. But Infiltrators using up their slot just to get BACK to their previous power and playability level may be another Power Creep problem. Though the idea of the Infiltrator being the ONLY unit not showing up in a game full of Scout Radars and everyone else perma-lit on everyone's map DOES seem very powerful. All abilities in the game come at the price of not being able to use some other ability. That does not make that ability balanced. We have already seen nerfs in the game, and we will continue to see them in the future. People using a broken ability instead of a less broken ability does not make something not broken. The game is full of abilities, counters, and counters to counters, etc. ESF threatens units, units use Anti-Air (which ESF is aware of), ESF uses flares (which the units are aware of), everything back to square one, loop back to the start Infiltrator threatens units, units use Scout Radar.... Infiltrator is not aware of the counter, and has no counter to the counter, and there is no back to square one, and there is no loop back to the start. Power Creep is going to happen. It's the nature of these types of games. And when it does, you can either: 1) nerf the Creep 2) readjust whatever unit got unbalanced (up or down) 3) let whatever unit got unbalanced stay broken We're letting SOE and the rest of the player community know that we don't want to be #3. * - the usable one
