Ok, I don't want to be "Radar is OP! Nerf!" so I'd rather focus on if people feel radar needs something to counter it. Currently, the only counter to scout radar is to destroy the vehicle equipped with it. There are several problems with that. 1) Which vehicle is it? Could be a parked Flash hidden somewhere. Could be one of the ESF's flying overhead. Could be one of the tanks. I think only the Flash displays a little radar dish but you still have to be pretty close to see it. 2) To reach the vehicle with scout radar you have to....get past the radar. Kind of a self defeating proposition. To do so means everyone and their dog will be aware of your presence. That's assuming you know where you're headed to destroy the vehicle. 3) Even if you do destroy it, the vehicle is likely to be easily deployed again (if possible). Just my own opinion, but I think without and sort of counter to radar, it really limits battlefield engagements. There can be no surprise flanking maneuvers, there can be no infiltration to sabotage or harass, there can be any hidden staging areas to regroup. Any loners that have survived a battle are hunted down easily. It just seems to limit the way battles can be fought. So I bring this up here because I feel Infiltrator is probably the best class to have some sort of evade radar detection skill. Our cloak already lets us do that, to an extent. But lets face it, you likely aren't going to get far with 12 seconds or less before you appear back on the minimap again. Do people have any similar thoughts on scout radar or disagree for any reason? Just curious.
I don't think it would be too much to ask for radar immunity or a significant reduction in the detection range of radar devices to become a permanent, passive addition to the Infiltrator, probably but not necessarily in the form of a suit slot. One of my biggest gripes with radar devices as a whole is that you have no idea that you're being detected by them, so they don't influence your behavior at all until you stumble upon the source almost by accident and finally realize what's been happening. More often than not, totally legitimate attempts to evade the enemy factions will still result in your death because they have an implicit awareness of where you are, which you yourself are unaware of.
This in one of those things that all but eliminates stealth play and is used by the lamest of the lame, the roflSpammers - ESF, roflPods and Scout Radar = cert farming. It's currently too effective IMO, I think it should be brought inline with the recon dart. Actually the recon dart should be overall a more effective detection device than the passive scout radar. To acheive this I would do two things. 1) Lower the detection frequency to something less than the current recon dart. 2) Stop the scout radar detecting stationary infantry.
This change would definitely help balancing it. In its current state it's ridiculous how it changes a base defense/capture. Move your flash into one of the side buildings of the base and everybody knows exactly where every enemy will approach/try to flank. A lower pulse rate would give the enemies a chance, once they are aware that there is scout radar in the area. Since i'm also using my scout radar flash to hunt down flanking infiltrators, i'm against this change.
A lower pulse rate wouldn't change a thing.....->oh there is a single ping at a critical position-> 5 guys go searching or->lots of pings at the east gate->lots of defenders go there
You can tell the enemy has radar if they act like they know where you are at all times (i.e. they have their guns pointed at the door you come in every time). Finding the vehicle is one thing but there's usually a device that rotates visibly on the vehicle somewhere. In any case, it's a vehicle kill. Points. Does scout radar need a counter (not a nerf)? Perhaps or atleast a stronger counter. Currently Infiltrators can evade scout radar for a little bit. If it's a flash, sure we can kill it (but anything with a gun can kill that). If it's a tank or ESF...fuuuuuuuuuck that. Hmm, I just got an idea: why not allow infiltrators to disable scout radar (or give vehicles specific locational damage like the radar dish so that it can be shot off)?
It definitely needs to stop spotting targets that aren't moving, there's no way to counter it on foot, so it completely destroys the stealth aspect of the whole game. Do you think someone is sneaking in your base but dont want bother to look out for him? No problem just spawn a flash with scout radar, problem solved! Do you see tanks coming at your way? Quickly go hiding behind those rocks and they wont notice you. Wrong! Someone of them was using scout radar noticed you. Seeing ESF flying on the area? Just stay still under that tree and you are safe. Wrong! He was using scout radar and just turned around and lolpodded you. This kind of CoD mentality needs to go, anyone who disagrees either dont want their little toy to be more balanced or just doesn't have any idea what game balance means. Scout radar is already really powerful tool to use, so change like this hardly does nothing, it just gives skilled players a way to counter it.
Maybe they could even just make it a direct ripoff of Halo - it only picks up movement at the normal walking speed and above. Crouch-walkers can move around undetected. I would still like to know when there's a radar nearby, of course, because this isn't a game where motion sensors are always present. Also, not all Infiltrators have the firepower to kill a full-health Flash. I mean, yeah, eventually and with five magazines from our pistols we might be able to destroy one, but it's not practical unless you have an SMG on hand.
I think infiltrator cloak hides them still? I remember getting surprised by one with my Flash about. Against other classes, the Flash Rader was like cheating almost.
Yes it needs a counter. Nothing permanent, we just need a temporary Ammo that disables it when we shoot that vehicle with it. In general though against all other classes.... Dr.Euth is right, it needs to either behave like real radar and NOT pick up hiding motionless entities.... or maybe not even pick up crouchwalkers either. For infiltrator.... if we ever get a cloak that doesn't run out period (given X Y Z conditions being met) then S.R. won't be as much of a problem for us but it's still incredibly imalanced if you look at it from a Vehicle enthusiast perspective. IE: Why does the ESF get the biggest range one, while the Galaxy doesn't even get the option at all??? Why does the lightning only get "Proximity" Radar? IMO, they need to swap several of those around and give ESF the shortest possible range in the game so it stops being such an EZ-mode single occupant supersonic 'BFR' Or at the very least... if you get out of your ESF, that Radar needs to shut off.
Vehicle based radar should only detect vehicles, and vehicles already have a counter which is the "Stealth" option. Infiltrators have a radar deployable and I wouldn't be against Engineers getting getting motion detectors (as they had in PS1), but here too like vehicles there should be a Stealth armor option for Infantry to counter these radar types as well. Presently radar is very unbalanced.
Scout Radar is a disaster. #1: Scout Radar vs. Recon Dart It gives every other Class and a couple units access to Recon Dart, and in many ways it's better than Recon Dart: no duration, no noise that signals an opposing side it's on them, no signal that gives away your location when you activate it, can equip vehicle it's on with Stealth so it doesn't show up on Radar, etc. You don't see Flashes that can be equipped with Revival Fields/Beams or Repair Fields/Beams. Just the Infiltrator tool is given away. #2: Scout Radar vs. Infiltrator (detection) Infantry can't see or hear when its being used on them. So Infiltrators trying to be sneaky never know there is any danger unless they stumble on the vehicle and see the little dish. Even if an Infiltrator finds the vehicle: 1) it takes way too much firepower to destroy it (1 Grenade + 2 Pistol clips or 3 Pistol clips for a Flash) unless you have an SMG. And when I have tried to destroy Flashes I have been discovered and killed ~50% of the time, and 2) they will know when you are shooting the vehicle (they have a vehicle mini-map that shows them) and they can just spawn a new one and hunt you down with it. I have been hunted down in an Amp Station by a LA on a Flash with Radar who just drove it up the stairs of the tower onto the walkway and the lapped until he got my signal and then chased me down. And they don't even have to be in the vehicle to have the Radar effect active. It just sits there turned on. So now you see riderless Flashes with Scout Radar dumped all over the place. And it's going to get worse and worse the more people that (1) Cert into them, and (2) the more people catch on to their power and just start spamming them and dropping them around bases. And if an Infiltrator COULD hear a Scout Radar active in their area, their best bet would be to Re-Deploy somewhere else: Infiltrators are terrible vs. vehicles and Infiltrators are terrible vs. Scout Radar. This has been a looming problem for a long time. Power Creep sees more and more people using Scout Radar, and Scout Radar is a killer to being Sneaky. Infiltrators that can't be Sneaky are either Snipers or really outclassed Infantry. As it continues to grow, it's going to push Infiltrators into fewer areas they can operate safely and into falling back on just being Snipers more often.
true that, this is a massive problem in making. it would be cool if the dish alone could be damaged/destroyed (action via E would be better than using weapon), the radar wouldn't work anymore but the owner would be none the wiser. There is a problem with this idea though: you can't do anything to ESFs which have even more powerful radar (thank $deity they are rare).
The short answer to the thread - yes I think it needs a counter. Maybe its just my playstyle, but scout radars that I can't realistically counter (4 pistol mags != realistic) can really ruin my ability to function in a base. The people I play against on Mattherson who know me will immediately pull a flash when they see me hitting their tower. I can still cause trouble for quite a bit of time but it is frustrating how this mechanic works. Suit, implant... whatever SOE chooses, I think there should be at least one mechanic to counter perma-wallhack.
1. Radar doesn't give much of an advantage. If there's one dot on the map it certainly helps. Starting from 10 you simply don't know who goes where and looking at the radar means distracting yourself. Plus the update frequency is really low. 2. Infiltrator does need a buff indeed, it was supposed to be a class number 1 for scouting. Currently engineer works better, because that's what you use for driving vehicles. 3. There are counters to the radar. Invisible infiltrator is not visible on the radar. Vehicles have stealth perk. And as I said earlier, zerg is a counter to the radar. Radar is mainly useful for defending facilities when there is a need to prevent infiltration on a massive territory. And perhaps on small outputs when you go solo vs. small amount of troops. Other than that it's not that super useful. Oh, right, Reaver + M30 Mustang + Nightvision + Night time of day + Radar == Death to enemy infantry. But that can be countered with few or just one skyguard(s).
you can't be serious. Zoom the minimap in and it's good enough to show you in which corner of the room the enemy camps, it's good enough to tell you which door to guard. Ok, inf can vanish for 12s max but there are 2 problems: - often even a single ping on the minimap is enough to make the general area crowded and that spells trouble - vanishing dot (=inf) makes people especially motivated in their efforts (after all nobody likes 1.invisible 2.snipers): even more radars pulled, enemy infs spamming probes left and right - now you can't even move.
We need at least something that warns us about the scout radar, sensor darts are more fair because you can usually heard the ping sound. And instead of killing the flash I would love to just shoot off the antenna.
Dear Infil, the Radar can't see you when you're cloaked. Just don't run around like you're rambo and you'll be fine.
