Discussion on the current state of the Valkyrie

You really should spend some time in an ESF before you make any more arguments for he Valkyrie. The Valk is definitely fun and unique, but an ESF has quite literally 4x the firepower, twice the speed, is half the target, and is a solo vehicle. I'm not saying it's right, but it's the way it is. We're also comparing the Valk to the ESF because you're going after the same targets, just more effectively in the ESF and with less player resources. Vehicle resources kind of come in to play, but vehicles are so cheap and spammable that it isn't much of a concearn.

I already spend some time in an ESF, but like you already pointed out, I play with a controller, which is not so good for aiming, that's why I don't count my time in ESFs. I don't see why you think I have to spend time in ESFs though, when I already spend time in Harassers too (where aiming is not important when driving). With Harassers I also go after the same targets as Valkyries (infantry, tanks, sundies, harassers, etc), and Valks are better than Harassers if used right.

Just because the Valkyrie can fly, doesn't mean you can't compare the effectiveness of the vehicle to a Harasser. But whatever... I'm getting pretty tired of the nonsense here coming from the Valk haters, so think whatever you want.

I just don't think you can make a strong argument without understanding the competition is all. And I don't think any of us are Valk haters. I think it's a really fun vehicle and I want it to be good. Most people here feel the same.

Harassers are also competition of Valks. Just because Valks are aircrafts, doesn't mean that only other aircrafts are their competition.
I rather think you don't make a strong argument, because you can't even prove if you actually spend some decent amount of time in Valks.

To me you are Valk haters, because you act like the vehicle was complete garbage, constantly come up with new nonsensical stuff to make the vehicle look bad, and anyone who disagrees with you gets ridiculed.

Edit: Ok, so after searching your TR name (adamxxx) on dasanfall.com, it turns out you actually have zero (0) hours spend in a Valk. So either there must be a mistake on the site, or you lied to me and all others too. You actually PMed me and said, you had a fully certed Valk on this account, so what's up with that? Judging about a vehicle you spend zero hours in, is not really what I'd call strong argument.

Mistake on the site. I still like flying/gunning for it, which is why I invited you to run it with me, but I'm not blind to how weak it is compared to the ESF. And no one it ridiculing you for liking it, you need to understand that a disagreement isn't the same as an insult. I think it's a garbage gunship compared to other options, that doesn't at all mean that I think anyone who uses it are garbage, it's a fun vehicle. If you think I'm lying about my Valkyrie then you're more than welcome to come to my server. If you want someone to gun with, I'd be happy to group up. If you want to get better at ESFs, I can show you the basics and we can help each other get better.

Can you prove this? I don't believe you (no, not gonna group up with you, thx).

Well, judging by your ESF stats on dasanfall, they don't seem too strong (1.3 KDR). My gunner stats for the Valk are twice as good (3.0 KDR), and I even played like complete garbage the whole time due to directives grinding. Or is this also just a mistake on the site?

Of course I get ridiculed here by people. Do you think I'm stupid or what?

If you know of a way then let me know. I don't have anything to prove and I'm not trying to impress anyone, there's no point lying about a silly game. I'm only here because I think the game can be improved and I'm arguing for the direction I'd like the game to go. With this new owner and them making big changes like the construction system, I'm hoping some big changes might come along. Like with the Valk, either make it a better fighter, or give more of a purpose for transports.

ESFs are tough to get in to, and like I said plenty of times, I'm very new to them, never claimed to be a pro, I only claimed to be able to show you the basics and get you started. I don't know about my kdr, 1.3 could be right, but keep in mind that's dueling as many better players as I can with a nosegun only, not farming infantry or flying in gank squads. If it really is 1.3 going A2A, I don't think that's bad after 1 1/2 months of flying against people who have been playing this game for years.

I don't even think you are lying, I just think you heavily underestimate the skill ceiling of Valks. The stats on dasanfall are only stats for gunning in a Valk, so it very well could be that you pilot Valks from time to time. I think you just didn't gun in it often enough, so little that a stat for it doesn't even show up on the site.

You said you are still very new to ESFs... My guess is that you must be still very very new to Valks then. I know, you think flying Valks is easy. Like flying ESF with training wheels (your own words). You know, they may have pretty convenient handling, but in reality flying Valks is really difficult. When I started to fly Valks I also thought the vehicle is useless. But with enough practice, it wasn't even that bad anymore, in contrary, it was actually pretty good.

I think, before judging about the vehicle, you actually first should spend some time in it. And if it still isn't good in your eyes, then perhaps think of the possibility that it just doesn't fit your playstyle? I have auraxiumed the Valk, and I actually still see me as a complete noob at it. I haven't even scratched the surface of the possibilities of it, yet I still think it's pretty decent. But to each their own.

(I still agree that it should have rockets for the pilot though, because with this "teamplay" in the game, it's too annoying to find people for rumbl seats).

That's exactly my point: the problem of the Valkyrie is the game has been designed so that logistics does not matter.
If devs want create a place for a transport vehicle the redeploy and resources must be changed otherwise we are just fooling ourselves: the Valkyrie is useless.

The Valkyrie is not useful as a transport because a transport needs to be able to get it's passengers into a useful position, alive, and support them long enough for them to have impact. With a tiny drop capacity, and no ability to drop force multipliers (Maxes) with the infantry, in almost any scenario you will lose 50-100% of the drop. There is no point in doing it- as you pointed out, redeploying is superior practically. However, I know a harasser is MUCH better as a transport than the valkyrie in every way, barring that it cannot fly. It can however jump over most obstacles and terrain with a little practice.

The key reason my squad often uses harassers/ANTs for transport is that they have staying power, and can provide adequate fire support. In the real world, vehicles like the Bradley and Warrior and BMP are used- they are specifically designed because of the need for a transport to also support infantry- and not only against other infantry. They all carry missile launchers for AT, machine guns, and autocannons for anti infantry work. All at the same time. They do not however carry too terribly much ammunition for these weapons.

The Valkyrie lacks fire support capability, becuase it has to sacrifice about 25% of it's drop capacity in order to both fly, remain on the field, and use it's weaponry. I personally would trade the valkyries' turret away, be unarmed, and instead get a 25% boost to top speed and accelleration, and a 10% smaller airframe model so it's harder to hit. Four man drops are almost negligible in fights routinely having 20-100 players. You can't have a significant impact without the drop being -in force-, and for that you need at minimum an entire squad- which a Galaxy can do better than a Valkyrie can. Not only that, a Galaxy can retain 1 pilot and gunner and still drop almost an entire squad- and with bulldogs can do massive damage to vehicles and infantry to support the troops.

Valkyrie? It's got peashooters that struggle to pick off lone infantry. Not that it isn't fun when you manage it, but it's never going to have a significant impact on a fight.

The Galaxy can tank massive amounts of punishment from a lone ESF, while giving back almost as good as it gets. The Valkyrie, if spotted by even a dedicated ground attack ESF, is a guaranteed kill almost every time. It needs to be able to either defend itself, or to run away. It needs -some- kind of option to be viable as a transport- because if it cannot out run, out tank, or outfight it's opponent, it cannot serve as a basic transport, because it will be shot down en route to the LZ.

The Valkyrie would gain much if it had a rework: Where it's gunner position locks into a foreward firing position when no gunner is present. This alone would allow a Valkyrie to continue to provide some measure of fire support while gaining an additional man in drop capacity, it also would allow the Valkyrie to attempt to dogfight against ESFs with only a pilot on board. Yes, it would lose almost every time, but it would at least be able to inflict some damage, and do something about the threat.

That, or I'd reccomend giving the valkyrie afterburners so it can jet away from incoming threats. Or increase it's top speed considerably.

As long as the Valk can self-repair, I don't think it can ever be buffed without opening Pandora's Box. I and a large number of allied Air (including 1 Lib, and me with Rocket Pods) just engaged a Valk outside our Warpgate. The most we did was get it burning once... before it healed right back. That kind of thing is too resilient to be allowed to be buffed to any level of actual offensive threat.

so agree with this idea.... if having additional guns/turrets make the valk too OP this would be the best compromise. At the very least if the gunner decides to jump out with the rest of the passengers the pilot can still defend himself or go on the offensive if needed.

I think Klabouter described the problem already.
Yes, the Valkyrie can be strong and in a way competitive (and anyone Who has had to fight this slimy bastard will agree), but it takes a ton more skill and teamwork than on other vehicles.

The Valk needs a better cas role that doesnt require as heavy teamwork. Preferably the ESF rocketpods and hornets as a replacement option for the rumble seats so the Valk can play a helicopter role. Adittionally it could function as a bomber unit.
As a transport the Valk needs some love as well, for instance better speed than the Galaxy or higher maneuverability than ESF so that it can get infantry at the perfect spot.

The valkyrie is a funny ugly duckling. I usually dont even attack them unless they are actively getting on my nerves by trying to challenge my air dominance.

I say remove the launcher ability of heavies in the seats and remove the AI gun from the ESFs and give it to the valks. Obviously tweak the AI gun range so its really only viable for cleaning out a drop zone and providing a little fire support for ground troops but nothing to OP. That should make for some good fun.

I don't agree with this one bit. First of all, to be "competitive", you need a pilot, gunner 2 engineers repping and 2 striker heavies. Or something like that. Sure, in that configuration it takes a ton of teamwork and can be devistating. BUT, much less devastating than taking those 6 players and placing them in 6 ESF, or 3 Libs if all the players can't fly. Considering the manpower investment, I don't consider it a competitive option to run a 6 person Valk. And even if it is fully crewed, I disagree it takes more skill and teamwork than anything else. Most of the firepower is below and to one side or the other, so just keep the target in the sweet spot, which takes far less skill than a Lib, as Libs have a much smaller gunner angle. It takes about half the skill as flying an ESF, as you're much more free to maneuver as you need because you don't have to aim. The only time it's "competitive" is when you get to hover over a target who can't shoot up, and in that case you're still better off with an ESF or LIB. It's just weak.

The biggest problem with the valk is that its a big target and doesn't fly all that fast, personally I love to fly it, however, its lack of armor and large profile make it fairly easy to hit with dumfire rockets and AP rounds which both basically (if its not already damaged in which case its dead) take it completely out of the picture. God help you if you get hit by a dalton. You know what the valk needs, a valkyrie shield like the vannie shield.

Not being able to outrun a lib is a MASSIVE issue

I feel like the Valkyrie is rarely used due to its impracticality, it kind of functions like a discounted Galaxy, it can spawn squad-mates, carry half a squad, and can deploy infantry from high altitudes. This just makes people still use the Galaxy because its a juggernaut and can deploy full squads of infantry, while also having reasonably decent firepower when equipped with 4 gunners.

It just seems to me that there's no place for the Valkyrie, maybe if they gave it a ability to cloak when you have a maxed stealth upgrade similar to the Sunderer it would be more useful, since in it's current state you can't run these things into a populated facility and drop infantry down as a few AA units can knock Vals down really fast.

6 players in 6 ESF would cost a lot more resources.

The point I'm making with "competitive" is that it's a strong force-multiplier considering the amount of players and resources it cost to use. If you've fought Klablouter you would know that a good Valkyrie can use it's handful of people to beat the crap out of squads of infantry or blow up a bunch of tanks (not necessarily with C4).
But, as I already mentioned, the amount of skill and teamplay required to get there is off the charts. You do need to do a lot of communications and have a ton of knowledge to properly work together. The pilot needs to know how to fly and how to present the best firing options to his crew, the crew needs to be aware how the pilot is going to change is course and react to damage so they know how to predict and compensate for any movements that the pilots going to make. Seat switching is important and communicating to be aware of danger and potential targets.

current state:
Sucks without strikers, rocks for TR

Valkyries are not really A2A vehicles. Look at its weapons... Apart from one allround weapon (Wyvern), they are all best against ground targets, and mostly almost unusable against air. You need very good positioning and situational awareness for flying Valks. Then you also don't get hit. With Valks you can position yourself much better than with ESFs.