Development Update – Forum Discussion - Dec. 19 2023

I am glad to hear that work is being done to brush up the game, even if such an endeavor begins with the humble Sunderer. This is greatly needed reassurance and communication regarding improvements players can directly benefit from in the core game.

May such welcomed news also be matched with welcomed acceptance from the community.

(NOTE: Though, I will say this with great reservation... Let us hope such changes do not pan out like the "Fortification Update" where so much was changed, yet so little was improved.)

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SUNDERER ORIGINS:
Rather than dwelling in the PlanetSide 2 mindset, I'm going to use this moment to go down memory lane back to PlanetSide 1.

Back during the early days of PS1, the Sunderer was a much different vehicle with a different purpose. It had increased armor and modest weaponry. Essentially two Lightning style tank cannons and paired with an EMP function for mine-clearing which could be pulsed out once every 30-60 seconds. It was essentially an MRAP (Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected) vehicle.

To explain and translate these details into PS2 terms to make it more relatable...

• Imagine a Sunderer...
• ... with 8000 HP in armor by default
• ... two M75 Fang turrets (from the Colossus tank)
• ... a Mine Guard installed by default
• ... and an EMP Capacitor (like the Gateshield Diffuser) that detonates mines within a 25 meter radius upon activation.

As you can see, this would be quite durable. Given with two M75 Fang turrets, though it is strong enough against other vehicles, however the cannons puts it at a disadvantage against close-range infantry swarms. All while matched with suitable defense against mines and an ability to clear them.

The Sunderer was once the vehicle of choice for punching a hole through stagnant front lines.

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SUNDERER UTILITY:
However, making the above changes would most likely require adjustments elsewhere. Such as the removal of Proximity Repair from Sunderers. Or... To redesign Proximity Repair so that it should only function while its in a deployed state.

Also be sure to remember that Sunderer's didn't spawn infantry back in PlanetSide 1, as that was reserved for the unarmed AMS (Advanced Mobile Station). Although its resourceful to simply merge a AMS' functionality into a Sunderer, however this merger comes at a cost.

... The Sunderer must remain reasonably destructible for the sake of balance as a spawn point - which is completely contrary to the Sunderer's original purpose of durability. There must be a configuration for each respectively.

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SUNDERER HANDLING:
This topic is perhaps one of the most requested changes of the Sunderer which was not mentioned in the rework.

Sunderer's have long-since had horrible driving characteristics for years and years. Terribly front-heavy with poor traction and a very bad habit of sliding sideways down hills or flipping over. This has been mentioned -multitudes- of times in this forum. If the Sunderer is going to receive a rework then its handling -must- be improved.

If you want a quick and simple solution, then read closely...

To improve the Sunderer's driving capability, simply take the existing handling template of the ANT (Advanced Nanite Transport) and clone it for the Sunderer. All you have to do is make some minor tweaks and adjustments to make it feel like a "Sunderer", such as a longer wheel base with a wider turning radius and slightly less acceleration.

If the Sunderer is given at least half of an ANT's driving stability, then a large number of players will be happy from that improvement alone. Trust me.
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I'll be keeping an eye upon the progress and improvements as time goes on.

there is so many stuff that needs some time in this game, but you guys think a sundee rework is what the game needs?
how about scrolling true the bug report forum and fixing some of that stuff first?
/rantmode

My Idea to make sundy not just small bus for spawn, but deployable and growing siege machine. We need longer base fight without adding stupidly OP battlebus.

You can use construction functional to make siege camp near deployed sundy. And add simple rule - longer time sundy deployed - more things you can build near or install on bus.

Possible things that can be installed for bus themself:
- modules for durability, hp, stealth, logistic;
- area for disabling enemy cloak in small area near sunderer;
- module that adding additional 1000hp shield for 3-5 second after spawn for infantry for braking spawn camping;
- module with shield umbrella for defence against enemy air.

Possible things that can be installed like construction near bus:
- walls, shield gates. (solo lighting tank need to kill obstacle first)
- addition spawn tube in 15-20 meter radius, cause 2 spawns to chose is better than one.
- deployable air-lifts or jump puds (cause its fun and great opportunity for siege)
- additional silo for CTF thing.

I been saying it for a long time....... Sunderers have been way overdue for an overhaul in the shop, but vehicle zergside is bad enough. Fixing the cloaking bubble to where is it less visible, giving the sunderer overdrive like an afterburner or even 4X4 abilities and removing the deploy zones completely would be the better way. Deploy zones came at a time when we had no orbital strikes, now the AMS's are so predictable where they are being put, it to easy to find where they are at.

Give the infantry emp mines and grenades and even the thumper that could actually jam vehicles. How about more mines for combat engineers and even max suits that had real anti vehicle capabilities instead of being run over by a flash or harrasser like an insect?

Your opening the doorway to all types of things that need to be addressed in spawning. What happened to the Deliverer variant? It was better as an AMS deployable. On top of that did you guys forget the Loadstar? It will need love to. Why can routers even be spotted on minimaps? There are lots of things that can be done for better spawning alternatives that don't require much work.

Get rid of Oshur. Too much water and not realy to much people like it.

Bring back at least two planets online and stop planet rotation like it was years ago. I hate the short planet games and then we must hop to another one. I would like to play on one planet the whole day when I want to (except Oshur).

NC Vanguards are to strong and needs nerf (since years)
VS Magriders are to strong and needs nerf (since years)
or
TR Prowler needs buff (since years)

Return pump damage to shotgun!!

Hey! Good to hear what's coming next and that the game is still being updated. Thank you! You have my support!

Regarding sunderers, I remember galaxies when they first received AMS modules they would gain extra HP when deployed. Maybe do something similar for sunderers on deployment, either passively or as a cert slot option, or increased resistances. Considering sunderers' versatility, they need to be balanced between being spawns (resiliency) or battle busses. Imo as battle busses they are quite strong and useful as they are now, any improvement will put them too close or even above tanks in vehicle fights and would break balance. If there's a plan to increase their overall HP, maybe remove remote repairs so they need manual repairs?

And to confirm your statement ("The general increase in infantry anti-vehicle capability"), since the game's inception all older players now have anti vehicle capability, and new players gain that right off character creation, not to mention the general expansion of anti vehicle weaponry. Rocklets and anti-materiel rifles didn't exist far in the past for example. Now we even have knives that damage heavy armor. It's one thing to fight tanks and air with these, but sunderers are like sitting ducks with neon light open season ads placed around them. However, regarding vulnerability to a single lightning, while true, it's also something to blame on whoever is attacking the base with said sunderer. Far, far too many times a tank army shows up and instead of spawning their own tanks to counter it, the defensive force chooses to complain in chat 'omg tank zerg'. I love it when it happens, gives me something new to do. I blame this squarely on the playerbase for not reacting.

Some opinions on Oshur next, since I don't consider it a lost cause. Before I get into it, keep in mind that I'm a solo/duo player since I first started playing almost a decade ago on Cobalt EU.
Aestethically, I like Oshur, though not entirely - I personally expected more beaches with rocky outcrops instead of 90% cliffs when I heard 'ocean' and 'water fights'. But it turned more like into a 2-in-1 map of mazes, one being water with some shores on the low, and completely separated by cliffs we got the highlands on the high ground. And the two can barely interact with each other unless there's a dedicated ramp or just go into the air - remember, the general anti-vehicle capabilities expanded considerably, everyone and their grandma now has AA launchers.
Additionally, the general concept of Oshur being a logistics focused continent missed how players behave nowadays in all mmo / open world games and this is the biggest problem with Oshur.

Throwback to the old days as an example - classic WOW pre-2010, everyone who joined any MMO wanted to be part of something bigger, so they formed or joined sizable and organized guilds, small specialized guilds and solo players used to be outliers and considered, well, special in one way or another. The same was true of Planetside 2 in the early years - massive pop, organization, large outfits with a bunch of small ones on the side, plus solo players. But socializing like that was back then.
But now, taking recent WOW as example again, small guilds and solo players are the dominant population, with large guilds being the outliers. When these people want to run a raid, they don't want to search for people, they just want to get in already and be done with it (also, don't ignore social media making people want instant gratification, it's the world we live in). Their mindset isn't about being part of something bigger anymore, it's about 'What's in it for me?' or 'What can I gain out of this right now?', so if there's nothing special guaranteed from the very first interaction, they lose interest and move on.

The same is true for Planetside 2. Small squads and solo players have no interest in the logistics required to deploy forces across the continent. They come in, look for the best available fight (that fits their individual criteria) and go there. If it isn't available, you will hear 'game is dying' and 'i hate oshur' on the forums, reddit and whatnot. Wrong or not, that's what's happening. Being solo/duo I also get miffed when I see Oshur open and no direct access to a fight, but at least I'm willing to pull a tank to get places and shoot something. Which is completely different from a bigger outfit whose first line of thought is generally 'Alright, we need to provide spawns and keep em up. Get galaxies, sunderers and tanks and get moving.'

So yeah, compared to the rest of the continents, Oshur's highland base connections are VERY walled off from the open sandbox concept (not with literal walls, but by the cliffs separating high and low ground for long distances). Especially given that there are bases that do not permit passing through them or even around them with vehicles unless you go in water and drive far far away to another island and come back the other way around. Or just give up on the idea and go somewhere else, be that another base or another game entirely. However, if the islands were more like beaches instead of highlands bordered by cliffs, moving around would probably be easier and encourage underwater ambushing a lot more? Dunno, I'd personally nuke the center of the map (lore be damned) and put everything on a beach and see what happens. Put Pommel Gardens on a beach, and yea, the hydro plant wouldn't make sense anymore, but oh well. Next, Mirror Bay and its surroundings have just been a mess in all their iterations since solo type players just go straight forward to what they see instead of searching for alternative ambushing directions, but those alternatives aren't really provided either. Just nuke the place and make something simple and see what happens. I'd go for a beach level base with surrounding rocky outcrops, maybe with a low water canal traversing it. Or an opposing cliffside multi-level balcony shooting range on the same water canal idea.

Lastly, I think level 1-100 for new players could receive ASP skills at around 25 or 50 before getting to level 100, takes too long and feels like a chore now. Been playing NC for the past 1+ years on and off and still not there yet to get that juicy jackhammer second slot. But I'm a vet and can deal without it (inb4 other salty vets call for 24/7 no life dedication to PS2 being an honor - new players don't give a damn). New players could use a pick me up considering the galactic sized gap in both equipment and skill. It's an old game of grind in the end stages, no sense to beat around the bush about it. I'm personally advocating for Planetside 3 at this point for the freshness if nothing else (no, I don't hate Planetside 2, quite the contrary).

Edit:
- clearer descriptions are needed for weapons - are they close range? do they have any special quirks? lore is nice and all, but add clear functional text about weapons and abilities - basically completely remove the need for people to search for info outside the game
- on Oshur, underwater bases are single area combat sites, they don't extend from one to the other - take mirror bay, there's a point underwater with a few rocks, plants and a broken tower near it, and towards the center of the crater there's just void

Love the detailed breakdown of the Sunderer's root problems. Let's talk about some of the proposed solutions.

Point Defense Goals

• How is this upgrade intended to increase short-range defense, without over-tuning offense? Are we focusing on improving close-range accuracy, or something else?
• Mixing higher projectile speed with an arbitrary range nerf may confuse players about how the game works; isn't projectile speed traditionally a long-range statistic?
  • What other tuning mechanisms can accomplish the improvement goal?

Point Defense Mechanics

• Can different weapon classes (e.g. Bulldog vs Basilisk) be tuned in different ways to achieve the improvement goal?
  • Increasing blast radius for the Bulldog is an interesting example for anti-infantry.
  • The Bulldog's slow projectile speed becoming faster is also interesting.
• The Pain tower mechanic in construction was bad because it was fully automated. What about adding a low-intensity pain aura to a deployed Sunderer for each manned turret?

I'll separately post different topics to help focus replies.

New Feature Idea: Snare Aura (Name WIP)
An exposed Sunderer should die to long-range fire, while a protected Sunderer should be rewarded with survival. Point Defense weapons play to this virtue, and other mechanics might also. For example...

What about a close-range aura that decreases enemy movement speed?

For that matter, what about a cargo attachment that decreases enemy movement speed?

Are snare mechanics fun? Are they possible in the game engine?

Point Defense Fire Rate

To preserve offensive balance, we have to consider the effects of fire rate.

Increasing fire rate shifts balance in multiple ways, including:

• increased alpha damage
• increased damage over time
• increased accuracy by tightening the gap between projectiles
• decreased firing uptime between reloads

We can tune the damage by lowering it, but what about the firing uptime? For this, we can modify clip size. Conversely, Warframe has a mechanic called Ammo Efficiency which lowers the amount of ammunition used per shot, increasing effective clip size. Daybreak should consider the benefits of refactoring for ammo efficiency, or look at manually modifying clip size for each weapon affected by Point Defense.

I have only one question: will 2024 finally lift NSO to a higher level?

NSO currently feels like leftovers thrown in the gutter when it comes to MBT, ESF and Max.

Sunder idea.
Give all vehicle the Option to transport 10000 Kortium, but only the FNT can Harwest Kortium and can give it to all Ground Vehicle.
Than can all Player tranfer the Kortium to an other Vehicle than it will give a Shield to this Vehicle 10000 Kortium 10000 HP.
This vehicle can power up with Shield hp up to 200000 Hitpoints.
When players will help he transfer the Kortium to other and power the Shield hp.
Enemy Players cant see the hp of the SHield only Shield is Working.
So we can build strong Vehicle frontlines to cap the next Base.

And i find Importen the free base Build must update more.
We need Blueprints to set closed walls and turrets to often we have open way into the base.
And one big problem is trash Buildings we cant delete it and cant build closed walls.
i think wehn 2 players use the Consturtion pistole and use the delete button it work than to give free place.

I really like the sound of the sunderer changes. The cargo slot and reactive armour sound very interesting to learn how to use effectively!

And I'm happy to hear about class reworks. There are things that might be fun to play as, but not fun to play against. I hope class reworks tackle that!

Long time PS player here. My 2cents:

In my humble opinion, PS2 core issue is never things like construction, base design, vehicle, infantry class, or weapon etc. It is lack of purpose. You can tweak those little things for years but you won't stop losing players, resulting in less people buying cosmetic, maintenance mode etc. Players like myself have no incentive/attachment to be part of a faction/outfit. The game simply lack of reason to conquer bases/maps, PS2 is a glorified call of duty with big map and support more players, that is all.

Bringing back map lattice years ago also brought me back to this game. What made the original PlanetSide stand out from all other Multiplayer FPS was becoming part of something big, faction loyalty was a real thing. There are reasons why players fight for every single tower, base, and continent. There was real incentive/reason/consequence for defending/capturing both lattices link to a faction sanctuary.

So please bring back continental lattice, that's what makes Planetside special. But how? I think the current 5 maps are WAY too big, there are way too many bases are NOT being utilized 90% of the time. You can simply cut each map in half or 1/3 and make them into 10 different maps or even more. From that 10+ map pool, now you can finally make continental lattice possible. From Sandstorm on Ishundar, Bridge fight on Cyssor, Volcano madness on Searhus, shining caves, to epic LLU chase, backdoor MAX rush, generator hold with Lib bombing from high above. Now that felt like 'real' war.

I know its a lot to ask especially if you only have 5 people remain in the dev team, but hey, the game is call PlanetSide not MapSide and I want to experience those glory old days one more time, perhaps a foolish hope...

Before Yall make a new vehicle, Please do some tweaks on the Javelin Atleast. Ive aurax'd the javelin twice and i am on my third already.

ive been meaning to make a video proof for what im about to say.

- HYDRA needs more ammo. You run out of ammo super quick. maxed out ammo is at 705, it needs to atleast have 1k ammo when maxed out, as phased dispersion makes you shoot out 4 bullets, it goes by quick, and phased dispersion is the only way to make the hydra viable. (NOTE the description for this is WRONG and not sure if yall fixed it and never changed the description, but the way it is NOW is perfectly fine. it does NOT need to have a slower rate of fire because people delete you off javelin very easily.

- CELESTE needs a re work or a damage buff. its hands down the worst weapon in the game, even fire work gun and all the other holiday guns can get more kills then a celeste can. instead of making it arc, let it shoot out in a straight forward like the larion, and give it a 3rd round in the clip, the damage is fine, its the way it shoots out is the big problem. increasing its velocity would also help as well.

Javelin is prone to latency side tank rounds. 90% of my deaths on my screen are from a Tank round that shoots 3-4 feet away from me to my left and it still kills me Even when i boosted out of the way telling me on their view i didnt boost away at all.

base speed for speed chasis needs to be up atleast another 5-7 miles per hour, Combat chasis could use a 5 mph increase and a 2-3 miles per hour increase when strafing. clientside hugely affects why i die and i shouldnt have to constantly be 3 steps ahead to avoid client side shots that you cant even see.

a slight resistance buff will help as well.

VS kills me very easily because of the no bullet drop on their weapons. i am constantly getting shot down over 75-90 meters away by a heavy using the orion, pulsar, or betelguse even when trying to escape. no bullet drop from VS is easily noticable when riding a javelin and trying to kill VS players.

NC is second on the list with the gauss saw, Burst weapons, and Scout rifles, they all can kill me within a 0.85 second time frame even with jockey 5 equipped, aux shield equipped, and nanite armor default slot that gives you 20% reduction that does nothing.

N.E.S.T is perfectly fine, the problem is you HAVE to max out its reload speed and max out its ammo for it to be viable + maxing out your vehicle look sensitivity. i have no problem using it, it takes skill to properly use it and i have plenty of footage using it.



As for this "new vehicle" hoping it isnt a NSO ESF, lots of people would be happy with a motorcycle that has guns on it, or a Aircraft that can carry and drop vehicles.

as for one other suggestion Removal of Aircraft Pads and Aircraft Terminals should be removed from construction. They are the soul reason why people are complaining about construction vehicle (chain pulling) its not the tanks or sunderers or any other ground vehicle that is the issue, its the Air to ground players mass chain pulling from construction to spam the horrible a2g weapons on low populated fights. removing aircraft terminals and not vehicle terminals from construction would be a big plus for the community.

old thread (back when the new MBT and Lightning turrets have been added) but still relevant imo
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...and-dbg´s-stingyness-on-customisation.258775/

i left a bunch of notes here. https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/18ntcl9/thoughts_on_the_sunderer_rework/

• New facility type / game mode

1. Not new, but a fresh look holding\capturing a point: There are 3 revival rooms in the sector, one or two of them must be captured in order to begin capturing the main position - the artillery installation. When the players capture the artillery installation, it will start firing at the room from the defense side. Defending ourselves, it is necessary to repel the artillery installation, capture, after which it will begin firing at enemy rooms, while the installation is captured by the defense side, it is necessary to turn on or repair the generators of the renaissance room repair.
2. Escort: It is necessary to protect or capture a caravan that goes from the center towards the gate. The caravan is moving towards the gates of the faction that owns it. The caravan can be intercepted, and then the caravan will start moving towards the gate of the faction that intercepted it. To capture the caravan, you need to hack the shield generator and hold the point for 90 seconds. When the caravan reaches the gate, an alarm will start, if the caravan was escorted during the alarm, the alarm does not stop and does not resume. The faction that was able to bring the caravan receives bonuses (discounts on transport, accelerated capture of sectors and, of course, certificates, ISO and merits. The unit that performed its best in this game mode should also be rewarded, at least with resources for the arsenal.
P.S. this game mode must have the motivation of the entire faction!
3. Bastion repair and refueling stations: this mode is more suitable for Oshur, a sector with a special purpose. Bastion needs support, the faction can help it. There will be isolated sectors on the continent that can be captured at any time. In order for the bastion to refuel or make repairs, the sector must belong to the allied faction. These sectors will have 2 types of capture and 3 types of generator. 1 the classic type of capture is point retention, it is available to attackers and defenders at any time to intercept or defend a sector. Type 2 are flags that are only available for the bastion. The bastion has 10 minutes to refuel or repair. Those who own the bastion must first capture the sector, otherwise the Bastion will not be able to anchor. After the bastion has anchored, the time report is 10 minutes, the allies need to bring 5 flags during this time to refuel or repair the allied Bastion. The enemy forces need to stop them: return all the flags, intercept the point. The capture of the point can begin only after the return of all flags. The bastion will be refueled or repaired by exactly the number of flags that were delivered at the time of expiration, as a percentage (for example: if 3 out of 5 flags were delivered at the time of expiration, then the bastion will be repaired or refueled by 60%). During refueling or repair, the Bastion will be surrounded by a citadel shield (a two-sided shield sphere around the bastion), damage does not pass through this shield in both directions, but it is possible to penetrate through the shield (for example, enemy aircraft will be able to attack the allied Bastion only in the vicinity, penetrating through the shield, but ground equipment will not be able to damage the Bastion). The citadel shield can be deactivated in two ways: damage the applicator, which is located on the top of the shield, in which case the shield will disappear for 150 seconds, the second way is to overload the generator of the service station shield. As I said, there will be three types of shields at the station: 1 shield generator will protect the sector capture room (two-sided), 2 respawn point generator, and 3 citadel shield generator.

• Новый тип объекта/режим игры

1. Не новый, но свежий вид удержание\захват точки: На секторе находятся 3 комнаты возрождения, одну или две из них необходимо захватить, чтобы начать захват главной позиции - артиллерийской установки. Когда игроки захватят артиллерийскую установку, она начнёт вести огонь по комнате возрождения стороны защиты. Защищаемся необходимо отбить артиллерийскую установку, захватить, после чего она начнёт обстрел вражеских комнат, в то время когда установка захвачена стороной защиты, необходимо включить или починить генераторы ремонта комнаты возрождения.

2. Сопровождение: Необходимо защитить или захватить караван, который идёт с центра в сторону врат. Караван двигается к вратам той фракции, которая им владеет. Караван можно перехватить, и тогда караван начнёт движение в сторону врат, перехватившей его фракции. Чтобы захватить караван, необходимо взломать генератор щита и удерживать точку в течении 90 секунды. Когда караван дойдёт до врат, начнётся тревога, если караван сопроводили во время тревоги, тревога не прекращается и не возобновляется. Та фракция которая смогла довести караван, получает бонусы (скидки на транспорт, ускоренный захват секторов и конечно же сертификаты, ISO и заслуги. Подразделение, которое проявило себя наилучшим образом в данном режиме игры, то же стоит наградить, хотя бы ресурсами для арсенала.
P.S. данный режим игры ОБЯЗАТЕЛЬНО должен иметь мотивацию всей фракции!

3. Станции ремонта и заправки Бастиона: данный режим больше подойдёт для Oshur, сектора с особым назначением. Бастиону необходима поддержка, фракция может этому посодействовать. На континенте будут изолированные сектора, которые можно захватить в любое время. Для того, чтобы бастион смог заправится или произвести ремонт, сектор должен принадлежать союзной фракции. Данные сектора будут иметь 2 вида захвата и 3 вида генератора. 1 вид захвата классический - удержание точки, он доступен нападающим и защитникам в любое время для перехвата или защиты сектора. 2 вид - это флаги, которые доступны только для бастиона. У бастиона есть 10 минут на дозаправку или ремонт. Тем кому принадлежит бастион необходимо сначала захватить сектор, иначе Бастион не сможет встать на якорь. После того, как бастион встал на якорь идёт отчёт времени 10 минут, союзникам необходимо за это время донести 5 флагов, чтобы дозаправить или починить союзный Бастион. Вражеским силам необходимо им помешать: вернуть все флаги, перехватить точку. Захват точки сможет начаться только после возвращение всех флагов. Бастион будет заправлен или отремонтирован ровно на то кол-во флагов, которое было доставлено на момент истечения времени, в процентном соотношении (например: если на момент истечении времени было доставлено 3 из 5 флагов, то бастион будет отремонтирован или заправлен на 60%). Во время дозаправки или ремонта Бастиона будет окружать щит цитадель (двусторонний щит сфера вокруг бастиона), через данный щит не проходит урон в обе стороны, но сквозь щит можно проникнуть (например вражеская авиация сможет атаковать союзный Бастион только в близи, проникнув сквозь щит, однако наземная техника нанести урон Бастиону не сможет). Щит цитадель можно будет деактивировать двумя способами: нанести урон аппликатору, который находится на макушке щита, в таком случае щит исчезнет на 150 секунд, второй способ перегрузка генератора щита станции обслуживания. Как я говорил на станции будет три вида щита: 1 генератор щита будет защищать комнату захвата сектора (двусторонний), 2 генератор точки возрождения, и 3 генератор щита цитадель.