Customer Service Announcement: Premium Membership

Please PM me about the contents of this post - Piestro

Quick question first:
Many apologies all if this was said earlier and I've missed it, but what happens to existing cert points after the 3rd Feb deadline?



My mates and I have decided to let our subs lapse as a direct result of this. We won't cancel immediately as we've already paid and it seems daft to loose the benefits prematurely. That was something that annoyed me right from the start - the fact that I've paid for six months but need to leave my credit card on record to keep some benefits, benefits that in my mind I'd paid for (I did renew happily the first time).

I'm the only one of four of us who haven't bought extra SC in addition to having the monthly SC coming in, and even I've got most of the weapons I want. I had thought to buy some gear with my SC, going forward, but to get one single item each month seems like crazily bad value. That whole marketing spin really feels like the gone off icing on the the bad-value cake.

Like many others here I used to subscribe to PS1 and would be much happier just paying a monthly sub and not having all the micro-transaction money-grabbing that becomes an additional factor hindrance in game design. I'm not too upset with the set-up we've got now as an alternative to that, but this change... urgh.

One thing I should say though, is "Good work and it's appreciated" to the folks manning this thread from SOE. You just need the marketing guys and finance guys to remember they're building an entertainment product with many passionate fans, who are generally the biggest advocates too and it's best to not annoy them. And for whoever thought this was a good idea to buy you a beer or two, on our behalf...

The announcement was made only where it was applicable, which is the games you listed above. Unfortunately I'm one of those dastardly middle management types (or lower management anyways), and yeah I thought about that clip too. We'll take some additional time when we can, but that's the nature of the gig. When you guys wanna talk we're here to listen and respond. It's a 24/7 on call type thing.

This tickles me because my boss' handle is brasse. We did of course anticipate that players would have substantial feedback on the new system, and would potentially come up with new ideas we hadn't considered. This is understood and built into our process. There are a lot of you, and you are bound to have ideas and circumstances we haven't thought of yet. That's something we can benefit from, because we can improve our decisions by listening to you folks and making changes where it makes sense.

I get this feeling, but this is something I want to specifically address. The 500SC bonus, or new announced 1 item purchase, is not something we offer exactly as part of membership. It's a benefit for recurring membership. The goal is to grant something additional for maintaining a recurring subscription. We can talk about how this is messaged, and if membership benefits are enough without it (although a separate thread would be better for this)

This is good feedback, but even better are specific examples of how we could add to or modify this system to make it work. If guns aren't the right reward for you, what is? All those ideas are really really helpful to us.

Oops, wanted to grab this point too.

Cert points are not impacted by this in any way. Station cash in your accounts will remain exactly as it is now. New Station Cash will not be granted as a result of the change (although existing Station Cash and Station Cash through purchase will still be available of course).

Time to end my subscription then.
I don't play all the time, i log back in to check new things and like to buy new camos or cosmetics with the accumulated SC.
Because it is fair that it accumulated, i'm paying for a subscription.
The 1 item per month just doesn't resonate well with me.

500SC = 1 camo or several smaller cosmetics (1 decal and 1 tire rims or whatever) or even 4 items if i choose on sale items.
1-per-month = 1 camo or 1 anything else.

See? I'm losing by this system.
Because god knows the game have not added any new cool weapons or vehicles for over a year (no new vehicle turrets, no new vehicle main cannons, no ESF update, etc etc) so cosmetics and camo are the only things you wanna buy.

Bye PS2 subscription.

I know that many of the points around this have already been mentioned, but I think it is important to spell them out in light of this comment, Pietro. Yes, you are absolutely correct: this change is a benefit to many players. But as has been mentioned, it is significantly less of a benefit for established players who have been in the game for a while. So, as a new player, yes, this is great, but as that new player stays in the game over time, they have less and less of an incentive to keep up with the membership. Effectively, it creates a loyalty program that is less beneficial the more loyal you are; it works against itself.

I understand that things needed to change and for a number of reasons, primarily accounting-related; this happens, I get it. When making changes like this, it would seem to be in everyone's best interests (including SOE as a whole) to make sure the changes meet the needs of the entire organization, not just the Finance Department.

I understand the desire for a separate thread, but I didn't want this to go un-commented. Again, you're right, and technically the fine print does say that, but the perceived value of the membership to your customer base is in the entire package, not just one component. In addition, the entire pay and sign-up structure is set up to make it difficult NOT to have a recurring membership -- which makes business sense, as that's really what you want people to do -- but when the two parts (the membership and the "recurring-ness") are almost inextricably linked both by the systems for signing up and in the minds of your customer base, it doesn't do your company any good to point out that fine-print distinction; SOE is only going to look bad by doing so.

SOE PERSON: I would like to know if it is possible for me to cancel my subscription and get a prorated refund from Nov. 20, when my membership, paid for the year, renewed? Being SOE changed the agreement, shouldn't I have this option?

The principal of being treated like a stupid kid just infuriates me.

Going to be honest with this new idea for station cash... It isn't good and should not be implemented, but that doesn't mean that it cannot revised.
The general idea of being able to save up for items even if they were only cosmetic sounds a LOT better than one item a month, especially if the item is limited on what you can buy, now this idea seems to be a step in the wrong direction but it can be revised into something that benefits the whole group and not just one side, i see a lot of people asking to go back to the old system, i can agree with that but the chances of that are slim, so the idea of 1 item per month is reasonable but it is WAY too much of a drastic change to the system, however if you look at the specs of the idea we are able to get a larger amount of Station cash on items but the amount of items is the breaking point of the idea, sure we can get better items that are more valuable but only 12 seems too less, maybe we could get a purchase of 2 items per month with a 2,000 SC cash limit anyways? The station cash would expire after a month and the community would at least still be able to get 24 items, it seems like a better idea to me, how about everyone else? What i'm saying is that the 12 item limit seems too small, I honestly would like the old system of 500 SC per month back because it was what i was looking forward to when i bought a 1 Year Membership about 2 weeks ago, but a change to the system of membership SC can be changed and redesigned. Thank you for your time. (Don't forget the 2 items a month idea I presented, I think many players would be happy with it.)

P.S.- Shoutout to all of the Community Managers who are helping to navigate and resolve this issue so that both parties are happy with the end result.

Does this mean that every member is going to get the NS PDW Gold (The only item valued at 2000)?

A few things wrankled about this email. The changes to "rewards" were definitely part of it, but overall, what hit me most was the overpowering sense of smugness and self-satisfaction that it conveyed.

Surely it is for we, the players to say whether SOE are

not the other way round

Also, the following is surely up for question

Again, surely that's our call.

How can this be announced to take effect in February and still have some TBA points included?

If the proposed changes to these rewards haven't been figured out by now, what does this say about the planning processes for anything more involved in the game?

For me, I really liked the fact that I could spend money on an annual subscription and then not have to spend any real money for the next 12 months - building up the monthly allowance if required for that BIG purchase.

Obviously, SOE and I differ on what constitutes excitement and value.

For the record SOE, I feel neither appreciated nor valued
At the end of the day, this is a game. Everyone has the choice to play or not play; pay or not pay and the only people who suffer if SOE get it wrong are those who work for SOE.

Overall, after reading the email, I thought it was more BS2 than PS2.

I've said previously I've cancelled my renewal simply because of this change because it represents little value for money.

I take your point about Station cash being a perk of a recurring membership under the current system but do you not think that people actually subscribe for that benefit? Whether it's not part of the package in your eyes means little because it's part of the deal to your customers.

What is currently proposed is hurting your loyal subscribers. It hurts because they are getting less value and less choice out of the deal. In fact the free to play players are completely unaffected by the change which makes it an even stranger decision to comprehend. Reading between the lines it basically means that you want your loyal subscribers to purchase station cash on top of their subscription fee. Money that people thought were going to support the game in return for a fair rewards.

I've bought Station Cash on top of my subscriptions but I can't see myself doing that at all now.

Why can't you just keep it the way it is? If it's money you want why not increase the sub fee by a couple of dollars a month and add another 100/200 Station Cash into the deal or something to make it worthwhile?

People like their freedom. A lousy voucher each month to buy something you probably don't want or need is rubbish I'm sorry. I enjoyed saving my station cash up for something I wanted or adding to it with my own money. Now it's a little pointless to me. I feel a bit betrayed. I'd like to retain the option of spending my station cash in other SOE games too if I like. But you've removed that as well with this proposal.

This change is community breaking. You may not realise it now but I'll tell you straight that the number of membership cancellations will mean that there's less cash going in to the game and in time less people are going to want to play because there's not enough being spent on the game.

I was there during the SWG farce after the alleged combat upgrade and no matter how much people said they didn't want it SOE stubbornly went ahead and did it anyway and reduced the biggest MMO of that era to next to nothing. Please learn from history and don't make the same mistake again!!

Too late they released PS2 way before it was ready even though most of the beta testers thought needed more time to bake before release.

I think the reason the majority of the feedback here is so negative, is because to us it feels like we were just an afterthought.

A
Ok we decided the new plans, lets tell them that we are changing the "contract" (subscription) benefits because this will be better for them.

It should have been...

B
Hey, we have an idea we think is good. Lets go see what the community AKA our paying customers think(s) about it.

While for you it may have been B. The way it was presented makes us feel like it was A.

If you had gone option B, you would have people saying I don't plan to resubscribe under those conditions. I'll only resub if it is changed to something more favorable ... whatever ...

Instead you can see all the people that flat out unsubscribed from your game. (or at least they stated they will / have)

The way SOE did this announcement felt like they decided that what we paid for was not what we wanted so through their grace, they will change it to benefit us.

I highly doubt that was what you guys were thinking when you did this, but that is how it makes us feel when you announce this is what we are doing to you on this day rather than this is something we are considering, what is your take.

Thank you so much Piestro and Luperza for staying on top of this and responding. I realize that much of what is written gets read on the forums, but without constant feed back like you two are providing, we often feel ignored and unimportant.

I do not want you to have to work any more on Sunday than you may already be working. Feel free to wait till tomorrow to respond to any of my comments. It will not hurt my feelings in the least. Keep up the good work.

So far as I can tell, they want to change it because currently they have to shell out money to the creators when we use SC to buy player studio items. When we get the subscription we might use it to buy items they create which cost them nothing. We might use it on player studio items that they have to shell out for. Instead of a subscription going straight into their profit margin, it goes into limbo. Some of that money they may need to move to player studio. Makes accounting hard, and can cut into expected profits. Sounds like it should have been better thought out before they released the whole player studio thing. Likely it was unexpected and this is them trying to reign it back in.

While I realize that yet another "me too" post does little to contribute to the conversation, I'm not sure exactly where we would dutifully sign a petition. Change.org? Seriously though, I just want to say that I was ecstatic about Planetside 2's open beta, I was delighted to have the opportunity to become a member and to take every opportunity to get the equivalent of a "founder's pack" or whatever, and I knew that in exchange for real-world, hard-earned physical money, I would receive virtual, infinitely reproduceable value in certs and "station cash" within a game that I loved. I took it to another level and bought station cash, and I paid for a one-year membership.

And then real life hit me, and I had to step away for two or three months. When I came back a couple months ago, I found not $1500 in station cash accrued, but less than $500. I figured then that Sony completely tried to "play the system" and used my "failure" to log in as their excuse for me to not be given my fair trade. Maybe my eyes and memory deceive me. This is how it seemed.

So now my subscription recently ended, but after joining a massive multi-game clan I returned to Planetside 2 and was about to pull out my wallet for another year subscription. Then I saw this thread.

And all I have left to say is this: Sony is in the money-making, customer-milking business, they have no intention to play fairly in the world of capitalism as long as they can get away with what they do legally, and everything they're doing is dancing along the shallow waters of a class-action lawsuit. Even a class-action lawsuit, if lost, they expect they will still profit from their decisions.

I have total sympathy for the customer support representatives at SOE having to wade through these posts, and I have deep, DEEP regard for the developers and artists who envisioned this game. I hope some wonderful and amazing company that has ethical leadership finds a game visionary, comes up with hundreds of millions of dollars, and hires you all away from SOE to leave them rotting away in their own mischievous shame in the company of their good villainous friends, Electronic Arts.

Thanks! We're doing our best. As we've been stating, we're compiling all of your feedback and sending it on up the chain, as we're not the ones who get to make these business changes. Please continue to provide us with your feedback!

Items are constantly being added to our Marketplace Depot and we'll continue to add more.

As stated before, the 2000 SC is a bonus for recurring subscriptions. We want to make sure that we are providing you with thorough information of what the below quote entails:

(as it's caused quite a bit of confusion and brought up many questions.)

A few players have suggested something like this. I will add your feedback to our report.

Can you 'grab' my question from earlier then? I'd say it's highly relevant. Here it is:

I understand why you have done recurring membership benefits but I personally find it sleazy marketing. Why not build consumer loyalty and trust instead? Hoping people forget their sub is on when they aren't playing anymore is just... well...

The problem with the 500SC change is as I posted before. You are essentially removing choice to 1 item where we could have had membership sales purchases and get the same items. That you have tied your online currency to another game means nothing to 90% of your PS2 members.
We should be getting at 2 choices or 1 expensive 1 non, etc.
Or seperate PS2 from SC.

The recurring subscription bonus SC would be forfeited if you canceled the recurring membership as it has in the past.

If I had a lifetime membership on a different game also run by SOE, would I be able to use that as a premium membership on this game for life too?