[Suggestion] Crouch cooldown?

Aight, aight.

I know a few of you are not idiots for sure. I'm clearly missing something. Post a vid of this wizardry that makes people so powerful. Let me see.

Your entire argument consists of: "Naw, there is skill in using crouch, so it's fine." and "get good and stop whining".
The exact same can be said of every mechanic in the game; why don't we bring up infil's and apply your logic - that it's a skill and any player that thinks it needs to be changed is whining and needs to get good.

I'm not sure what you consider 'spamming', but you can see here and in basically any pick up match or high level play, crouch is consecutively used very often: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/933758219?t=01h40m26s
At minimum, that is 1 crouch a second and he absolutely obliterated the PoV player without really sacrificing aim and being basically un-trackable for headshots.

Reminds me of the morons in R6S who defended drop-shooting.

Lunar did some odd thing there with an adjustment and didn't fire right away. I think that's why he lost that one. But yeah it was a good duck (or lucky) right about the time he got a bead on the head. It all seemed more deliberate, or a practiced timing (you can't realistically dodge actual shots) that the rhythmic monkey mashing that guy did in my .gif.

You made a straw man there, but close enough that I'll own it... I DO think there is skill involved in using crouch so it's fine.

And although I don't mean to be toxic about it, yeah, learn how to do it rather than expending frustration trying to get it changed. At the right range, and at the right time just once per engagement, it can make a big difference.

My guess though there is some other definition of spamming here you guys are talking about. If it's the stuff seen in my .gif and that twitch.. I'm fine with that.

No, I was using the logic behind it, by applying it to any mechanic in the game to point out how stupid it sounds, re:

Strawman, lol. Apply that same sentence to anything in the game.

I've had 300 ivi players tell me the same thing in different words for other mechanics.

Spam or not, the animation for Crouch needs fixing. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

The true ADAD+crouch-spam makes your model teleport slightly and misaligns the hitbox with the model as it takes a moment before it catches up. You can see this phenomenon especially good when you jump a jumppad together with someone or place C4 on an ESF and detonate it while it's fast in flight. The C4 will deal little damage as the model and hitbox are too seperated from where the C4 actually explodes.

This is why people hate it so much. It's not because it's skillful, it's because it messes with the back-end of the game and makes you much harder to hit than you would if the game didn't need a latency system. If you've ever seen one it's a messy sight to behold. Their model warps left, right, into a crouch position, seems to walk left and then the game realizes they were going right all along so it suddenly warps then right only for them to have changed left again so now their model teleports left...

A simple limit, or slowing down the model just like if people bunny-hop, or an increase in COF every time you complete a crouch-to-stand movement would be simple solutions that punish this kind of behaviour. And you should be punished in some way for attempting to spoof the latency system, just like when you try to bunny-hop you quickly learn this will cause you to move as if you were going through ankel-deep mud so people just jump sporadically instead of constantly.

I think you also have to take into consideration that the devs already have taken a stance against 'things' like this. Jumping around is penalized quite heavily because thats not the kind of gameplay they wanted to promote. Crouching has just become the go to option instead because it achieves much the same as jumping around like a clown does, only instead of up your hitbox goes down.

It has been suggested before and its been suggested in this thread as well, crouching should have similar penalties as jumping does so its used for what its supposed to be, you crouch to be more accurate or get a lower profile.. not to do your best attempt at tricking the netcode or janking up the animations.

It seems fairly simple, just add in a big bloom when you stand up from a crouch just as when you jump, people can still tactically crouch and get accuracy and throw off aim if timed right but then its also a commitment, you either stay crouched or deal with heavy bloom when standing back up again.. just as jumping mid combat is a commitment to either killing them mid jump or die, unless you land point blank ofc and hopefully the multi-crouch tactic will become as rare as the bunny-jump tactic is.

I'm gona make one.

But due to the nature of what I'll be recording, I can't predict how long it will take me. It might take me weeks.

What I can predict is that it will take more than a few days.

This kind of video is a ton of work, or, to be more honest about it, cause it isn't "really" work, it's extremely time consuming.

Heh, I don't need a montage man. Just give me a clip of what you're talking about.

The crouch is nearly instant.

So what are you suggesting exactly?
Make the animation not instant, insert additional model frames, and have the player model disconnected from the players actual motion? (oh boy won't that be fun in clientside)

-or-

Make crouching not instant?


Because my proposal is: leave it the F alone, that's the mechanics of this game and it's fine. Stop trying to turn it into some other favorite game of yours.

So my last session I had 200+ kills on the butcher with 65% hsr and 3+ kdr. 150+ kills, 62.745% hsr and 1.5ish kdr with the betelgeuse. I typically get about 2 rage tells/yells an hour, often far more.

Been playing a lot with a really competitive outfit lately (not in that outfit myself), with some of the best players on my server. I like to improve, so i play with them, challenge skilled players, push myself to improve. I also have 8+ years of experience with the game, with the last 3ish years of playing "sweaty".

With that out of the way, I hope some of this advice helps:

1) As mentioned by the person who created the thread, spamming is basically gifting the opponent headshots. When you spam crouch too fast, your head basically doesn't move. So all you opponent has to do is keep his aim at the head, and the crouch spam will do nothing.

2) It takes just about 1s for the average player to readjust their aim. When you crouch spam, you want to time it right as your opponent is about to land a headshot on you. You then stay down (crouched) for just under 1s, and then prop back up. The maneuver can be repeated as many times as required, if done properly - although typically in 1v1 scenarios, the opponent is dead after the first crouch.

3) Crouch spamming is useful in certain scenarios, but not 1v1s. For example, when sitting in a spot (for whatever reason), you can "spam" the crouch - quick up and down in randomized pattern- or strafe short/long if necessary to be a harder target for snipers. But as soon as you are placed in a 1v1 scenario, spamming crouch will not be more of a handicap than anything else. If anything, try jumping instead (again, please be aware there is a cooldown if you spam 4 jumps too close together, that will penalize your movement).

As a general rule, don't spam anything. Learn to use mechanics properly to your advantage. I don't see a reason why there shouldn't be a crouch cooldown like with the jump. But seriously, I have rarely seen a crouch spammer. Maybe like twice in my history of play - and they got wrecked. What I have noticed is that a lot of people rage and confuse crouch spamming/abuse with people who actually time their crouches properly (as I said above). I feel too many people don't understand the mechanics of crouching (which are proved when they refer to crouch animations), and therefore just fall into the bandwagon of "crouch spammer!" when they die to someone who outplayed them. Again, no issue with implementing a crouch cooldown if it makes people feel better. But I just want to clarify that it's targeting a minuscule issue, and not the actual one people asking for a cooldown want addressed.

I do feel that the devs aren't capable of reworking a simple mechanic properly without destroying the game.

lol we're never gonna see anything tbh

they'd have to find a crouch spammer - and one that actually wins an engagement - first.

gl with that

I don't know about that, Orion and TRAC-5 have the same TTK in CQB and the LA shot first. Looks like Mr. Light Assault does ~1 extra bullet of damage to Our Hero in that fight which is about right for that slight reaction advantage. Crouch or no crouch without the AS that should have been the LA's fight IMO.

Agreed.

Also agreed, but I want to point out that the speed at which the animation shifts is precisely why spamming crouch isn't the issue: the faster you go the less your head is actually out of the way of the bullets being fired at it.*

*The exception being the extent at which the hitbox is "warped". A claim I take with the appropriate amount of salt, since most videos on the subject are not only old but also show players whose internet connection is clearly already suspect. I guess I'll see what kind of vid Nots uploads.

That is largely part of the problem, yes.

Leave max alone, that's the mecahnics of this game and it's fine. Stop trying to turn it into some other favorite game of yours.
Leave a2g alone, that's the mecahnics of this game and it's fine. Stop trying to turn it into some other favorite game of yours.
Leave infil alone, that's the mecahnics of this game and it's fine. Stop trying to turn it into some other favorite game of yours.
Leave rubber-banding semi-auto alone, that's the mecahnics of this game and it's fine. Stop trying to turn it into some other favorite game of yours.
Want me to go on?

Yeah, the people that spam it 2-3 times a second just damage their own aim and end up with their head more or less in the same spot anyway. Still pretty stupid that it happens though.

I wouldn't expect much from their vids (if they even do make any) lol.

You're pretty much proving the part about whining so yeah, let it rip....

Not so much stupid as a consequence of its age. Not that it couldn't be improved, but it's not as if its peers at the time were exactly leagues better.

I don't either, I'm just being polite.

I know, I wasn't talking about putting music and titles lol

Simply remembering to save and record and each time only for an event that lasts less than 1 second is what I mean. Plus one example wouldnt be enough. To be convincing, you'd need a lot more.

The other thing is, I need to think of it, for example, when I played since I posted that, I completly forgot to pay attention and record.

But I promise I will.

It's an issue that pisses me off a little because it's like an "accepted" exploit, one players have been doing for years and years and no one seems to care about even though it gives such a huge advantage to those who use it.

Personally, I don't use it on purpose. I used to, but I don't exploit..

1. It isn't whining.
2. I guarantee I can go through your post history and bring up you 'whining' about some mechanic or another... Took literally 10 seconds to find a thread you even started: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...mini-chaingun-it-got-overbuffed-sorry.183633/
Why did you even post that 'whine' thread? Should have just let your complaints rip.
3. Everything you've said in defense of the terrible crouch animation can be applied to ANY mechanic in the game, even those that have been changed or needs changes because they don't work 'correctly' (bugs).

I shouldn't really be getting involved in this discussion but I'll chuck this in the mix and see what comes out:-

what if we take away the button which makes you crouch when pressed and uncrouch when released, and, instead, make everyone use the crouch toggle button.


okay, I'll get me coat...

Wow. I bet I have a thousand or more posts since 2014. You really got me there man. 7 years ago I whined too. Guess I'm the kettle.

Also congrats: This is the most pathetic display I've seen in a discussion in all those years.

Use shadowplay, put it on a like 2-3 min buffer and pop it off when you see something.
I suspect you guys are seeing some ridiculousness that should be obvious from one catch?

I trust you on good faith here man, I understand it might take a bit.