Hello guys ! I turn to you for help ! I really love the feel of the NC faction, from the design of equipment, the music, the theme. I change classes quite a bit depending on the scenario, but the HA is always useful to pin a line down, especially in deadlocks or confined environments where mobility or stealth isn't an asset. To begin with, I'm by no means a pro player (I play quite casually) and to add to that, my mouse is not sufficiently precise to allow extremely accurate shooting (yep, when trying to snipe with Infiltrators and 8x scopes, the crosshair "jumps" rather than moves smoothly). Both of these might explain extremely well why I find myself having trouble with the NC LMGs. That's why I turn to more experienced players for training advice and gunplay tips ! Compared to my other characters on the TR or Vanu side, I have tons of problem hitting things with the EM6 or the SAW. What really gives me trouble compared to the superb TR guns (imho) are the following : - Slower rate of fire : how to compensate for it ? in CQC I usually tend to lose the TTK war simply due to pumping less shots per second. - High Spread : the recoil is manageable but at 10-20 meters the bullets start flying left and right. Quite opposedly, I've got decent mileage out of the battle rifle (due to less spread) and the shotgun with slugs. Thanks a lot !
I've never used the EM6, but the SAW is more of a medium range weapon, so you probably will lose the TTK war if you're using it in CQC. The Anchor or GD22 are NC LMGs optimized for CQC.
Sounds like you just need to lower your mouse sensitivity. There's a great sensitivity guide here: http://iridar.net/planetside-2-mouse-sensitivity-guide/ The "spread" in PlanetSide 2 is called Cone of Fire, or CoF for short. There is a starting CoF, and then there is CoF bloom per shot. Starting CoF depends on what you do when you start firing - whether you're moving or being still, crouching or standing. In general, big guns like LMGs, have bad starting CoF for firing while moving, so you shouldn't expect great accuracy if you start firing while moving. With each shot, CoF will increase by a set amoung - CoF bloom. Most weapons have a nice balance in regards to CoF bloom, there's nothing special about NC LMGs here - they deal more damage per shot, and bloom proportionally more. The CoF resets when you stop firing, so you just have to remember to stop firing every once in a while to reset CoF. Basically, you have to fire in bursts. Burst length here depends on distance to the target and how big was your CoF when you started firing. That's just a brief introduction into PS2 weapon mechanics, for full info I welcome you to my guide: http://iridar.net/planetside2/weapons/weapon-mechanics/
All of the above plus do you have good burst fire discipline? Even with lower senstitivy and a more forgiving LMG like the Anchor or the GD22S ripping off long volleys will result in many misses (you'll run out of ammo pretty quickly on the GD as well because: small mag). From memory, the EM1 has the best rate of fire amongst the NC LMGs and a big mag, so if you need to adjust during CQC to get back on target, or you are not so good at headshots (which is where the Anchor excels in CQC) this one might also be worth a try. It has a lower damage per bullet (143 rather than 167) and I think this was at least one of the reasons for its unpopularity in the past. But it was buffed in the recent LMG pass by DBG.
Hello guys ! First of all, thanks for not calling me a noob or being aggressive, much appreciated ! All the advice you gave me is pretty interesting so far. I've lowered the mouse senstitivy and it's already much better, I jsut need to get used to it Regarding the COF, I didn't know it would go down so fast but the tests in the VR training seems to indicate it so far. Thanks a lot, now I can hope to start hitting the broad side of a Sunderer.
Hey again ! Thanks a lot for the tips, I've had the pleasure to try them out and they work great, especially the mouse sensitivity bit I'm still a noob, but at least now I can reliably get people at 30m with a SAW
As others have said, bursting is very important to reset the cone of fire. Also of note is that the SAW starts with a cone of fire of 0 if you aren't moving whereas the 167 damage guns start with .03 and the 143 damage guns start with .1 instead. What this means is that if you are stationary when you first fire the SAW your first 2 shots are going to be more accurate than almost all TR/VS weapons on their first. And since each weapon has a different cone of fire stat for standing/moving you can actually get off 8 shots with the SAW before you hit your moving cone of fire number. And don't be scared of CQC with the SAW, it's still a beast. Better for mid-long range for sure but is still tied (with Carv, MSW-R, and Orion) for fastest light machine gun time to kill in the game. In my opinion I feel the GD-22S is the best lmg in the entire game. It has very good damage, very good accuracy, usable hip fire, and a ridiculously fast 2.3 second short reload. It doesn't get the attachments other weapons do but it doesn't matter because it doesn't need them. But really the key to pretty much all of NC's weapons (the harder hitting ones anyways) is to try stand still for the first 3-5 shots when you can. A lot of people will argue that this is a very bad thing but if you can aim your first 2-3 are gonna be pretty much guaranteed headshots with some practice.
That's only to the body and in my experience with 200dmg weapons you're much better off going for broke with headshots. If you can aim you win. Reminds me also that with the SAW you're pretty much always going to be better of running Resist Shield since stationary aim is so important.
Yeah, cuz they're hard countered by nanoweave. True for any weapon. The point is, SAW has same TTK with headshots, and massively longer TTK with bodyshots against nanoweave. Yeah, SAW can kill up close, especailly if the user can nail those 3 headshots, but it is still one of the last weapons I would take into CQC given a choice. Best mode of engagement with that weapon is to keep an enemy at range. Thinking "SAW is fine in CQC" and storming buildings with it is a mistake, in my opinion.
It's not optimal given other choices but most new players don't have other choices and I think hanging back in the optimal distance just to preserve optimums (aka KDR) is the mistake. Sometimes you need to take buildings and heavies gotta heavy. 200dmg gun TTK against nanoweave +40% = 7 hits for 1120dmg 167dmg gun TTK against nanoweave +33% = 8 hits for 1068dmg 143dmg gun TTK against nanoweave +28.5% = 9 hits for 1029dmg Of course this is at max damage range and assuming your opponent is at full health, neither of which are overly common. The over-damage plus much more controllable recoil (and resulting accuracy) of the 167-200dmg guns puts them on more equal footing than most people realize. Generally lower first shot recoil multi helps immensely as well. I guess my point in the end is that the SAW is actually a very well rounded weapon. It's harder to use in CQB but more than makes up for it 25m+ where the true CQB lmg's start to fall apart in comparison. I think too many people put too much emphasis on pure CQB scenarios, because let's remember here, you gotta get to that CQB scenario to begin with and if I've gotta pick off 2-3 people on my way to the objective I want something accurate.
Nobody said anything about KDR. Yeah, and it's better to sport a faster firing weapon for that. That's BTK you calculated, bullets to kill. TTK stands for time to kill, calculated in seconds, not hits or damage. SAW TTK: 0.48s, vs nano 0.72s, 50% increase. CARV / Orion TTK: 0.48s, vs nano 0.64s, 33% increase. Anchor: 0.5s, vs nano 0.7s, 40% increase. Outside extreme cases, recoil and ADS CoF values are irrelevant in close quarters. Overkill does help, can agree with that. It's not a rounded weapon, it's a weapon heavily specialized for ranged combat. Which is why it's not a well rounded weapon. That makes it a worthwhile weapon in general, doesn't make it a well rounded weapon. Listen to what you're saying. "Sniper rifle is a well rounded weapon. It's useless up close, but snipes pretty good at 100m+". You're the one who brought up "SAW in CQC" topic. SAW is a great weapon, no argument there, doesn't mean it holds up against competition in CQC.
That's correct, assuming all body shots for TTK and targets at full health. The less shots fired the closer the gap. Recoil is very relevant and first shot multi even more. Unless of course the player has absolutely mastered their recoil management. But that's a fraction of a percent of the player base and compensating for the first shot multi can be rather dicey regardless. Why put quotes around something that you said and I didn't? Dipping so low to compare the SAW to sniper rifles means you're arguing just for the sake of arguing. Why bother? Bottom line for weapon round in this scenario is that the SAW is better at CQB than the the CQB lmg's are at mid-long. That's right I did, and then you cherry picked a specific scenario where everyone is full health and running max nanoweave with only body shots. Clearly you feel this is the only scenario that you'll run into so you wouldn't run the SAW. Cool but other players probably aren't, and shouldn't, specifically plan for that 3% encounter rate.
Not in close quarters, it isn't. When target has size of several degrees, whether you recoil 0.3 degrees or 0.5 degrees means nothing. Because you're wrong, and I'm right. I put quotes to demonstrate how nonsensical is your argument that SAW is a rounded weapon because its being bad in CQC is balanced by its being good at range. Rounded weapon performs well everywhere, SAW doesn't. Not really. Both require an adjustment from the player, both have potential to perform outside their desired range, but have mechanical limitations, which get exacerbated if the target is running nanoweave. Bodyshots vs full health target is the standard of calculating TTK. Expected you to know that.
No, you quoted me as saying something that came purely from your imagination because your argument is terrible. The SAW performs just fine in CQB. I didn't say it was overall as good as the CQB focused lmg's at CQB yet for some reason you want to pretend that's not only what I'm saying but that it's all that matters. There are many worse lmg's for CQB, that in itself makes the SAW rounded. And no, the difference between a MSW-R or Orion at 50m+ is far larger than the difference of a SAW at 15. You seem pretty contrite for a person that likely doesn't even use lmg's. Perhaps you should limit yourself to the roofhopper/tryhard topics.
No, it doesn't. No, there aren't. SAW has the lowest rate of fire, the worst hip fire CoFs, and gets countered the most by nanoweave. It is the quite literally the worst automatic primary for close quarters. There's no need for insults. I know quite a lot about PlanetSide 2 weapon mechanics, you can check out my weapon mechanics guide. If you still disagree after that - fine.
Yet by your own personal set of standards (CQB/nanoweave) the SAW has better TTK than 10 other LMG's, while being worse than 10, 2 of which are directive equivalents of their bases, so really only 8. But go ahead, move the goalposts somewhere else after your specific scenario still puts it middle of the road. Not insults, just observations. If you played heavy at all you'd know what you're saying is garbage. You're arguing just for the sake of arguing. All you had to do was say you don't like it, a lot of people don't. But instead of that you keep trying to use a cherry picked situation to sound as though you have some sort of authority. You don't. And by being such a try hard you just end up looking like a try hard which is probably a recurring theme if I had to guess.
It's not just about raw TTK. Raw TTK on its own means very little. It's all about how easy it is to get to that TTK. Otherwise bolt action rifle would be the best weapon because it has TTK of 0 on a headshot. It is the best weapon, for someone who can actually take advantage of it. But it's just unrealistic. SAW has poor hip fire accuracy, which forces the user to ADS at all ranges beyond melee, which isn't convenient in CQC. Granted, it's true for a lot of LMGs out there, but SAW is the worst. Rate of fire is another desirable trait in close quarters, which determines how easy it is to consistently apply damage to the target. E.g., it's much easier to deal "some" damage to the target with a fast firing SMG than a slow firing rifle. Again, SAW is the worst. You're the one who brought TTK into this. And you keep using it as an argument, but deny it for me. Kinda hypocritical. I play all classes on all factions, and used a lot of different weapons, including SAW. "Not insults", "what you're saying is garbage". Mhm. Every single stat on SAW screams "I suck in CQC", you've been proven wrong at every single turn. I dunno how can you keep arguing with a straight face and then say things like "you're arguing for sake of arguing". You just can't admit to being wrong out of sheer stubborness. Well, I got news for you, I'm the most stubbornest guy on these forums, and weapon mechanics is MY topic. There's no victory for you to have here. I do. I know more about PS2 weapon mechanics than anyone. Hell, I probably spent more hours doing research than you did playing. It's easy to prove. What is Horizontal Recoil Tolerance and what's so special about how SAW interacts with Forward Grip? I bet you can't correctly answer either of these questions. Refusing to give up is a good quliaty. People who coat it in negative colors by calling it "tryhard" just don't want to look bad for not trying hard enough.
Goal post moved, congrats. The better players ADS and SAW has the highest non-extended mag damage per magazine in the game. Some would say reloading is a pretty big deal. Also the whole issue finding and holding choke points in CQB. Rate of fire is negligible if a person can aim. You, oh great master of all gun mechanics, should know this. Again, poor hip fire accuracy isn't a big deal as hip firing tends to be for poor players anyways. If TTK in super CQB scenarios was the issue then just recommend the Cyclone and be done with it. Speaking of which, it's the slowest firing SMG and also the best. Odd huh? Yes, I brought up CQB TTK and then you quickly added all body shots against max nanoweave, at which point I proved the SAW was still middle of the road, and then told you to go ahead and move the goal posts because you were wrong. And you of course did, because try hard. I doubt you play all classes, your continued changing argument insults yourself, YOU don't like the SAW (it's stats are fine and this isn't SpreadsheetSide 2), you lost your own argument, keep plugging your self absorbed 'findings' and 'pages', and supposedly the grip on SAW/Carv actually extends the horiz tolerance past the baseline threshold before reset even though in play testing they seem about the same. Which ironically means you could throw a laser on the SAW to further hurt your argument. And alas, refusing to give up is a great quality when faced with adversity from outside sources. But that isn't the case here, you did this to yourself. You just don't like the gun, fine, but save your excuses for your ego blog.
