[Suggestion] Could we finally address a2g

There's the slight problem that your experience does not line up with the experience of everyone else. That means we have to judge it based on something else, like performance or what the developers told us it's supposed to do. That performance is pretty bad because even the developers have specifically told us that these weapons are designed as deterrents, giving plenty of time for their victims to escape. This is quite literally their designed purpose in the game, what the developers have wanted and what the experience of just about everyone except the unicorn flybois who magically have a different experience despite, you know, rarely having any actual experience with it. Like you! This is doubly hypocritical since those same flybois tell us "you don't have the experience so you don't count".

If you get 3 people to play G2A in a Ranger Sundy you will just get killed by whatever random Harasser/Lightning/MBT/etc comes along and you will still have to pound dirt for 4 seconds to kill a ESF that uses FS, that is with 2x Rangers and 100% accuracy, super easy to maintain 100% accuracy for 4 seconds on a ESF that serves itself on a silver platter by just staring into the void while being shot. No its not, not even a aimbot could do it because the projectiles are too slow.

Also, big F on making AA more effective against ground targets, sure that would make them "better" but its a well used tactic by pilots to try to appease the ground farm since they dont care at all if the AA gets better at killing ground targets, they still dont pose a serious threat to air targets.


I really have to question anyone that has even taken a cursory look at the state of G2A/A2G and come to the conclusion that is not completely and utterly stacked in A2Gs favour. Its so blatantly obvious that it could be seen from orbit while using a microscope so I can only really put it up to 3 different reasons.

1. Stupidity. Literally too stupid to put two and two together so they just go with what "feels" right.
2. World shattering bias because they dont want to lose the massive advantages.
3. Wilful ignorance on par with a flat earther that is taken up to space and instead of looking at the planet through the window, they look at the space stations floor and proclaim that the ground is flat so clearly the planet is too.

Literally takes almost 9 seconds for a Skyguard to unload a clip into a ESF, congratulations! instead of flying halfway across the continent the ESF decided to stay in the area so you could shoot at it for what is a eternity in a FPS game.

There are often other people also fighting in the area, so TTK is significantly lower than 9 seconds most of the time in actual engagements.

One lockon, a few shots from a friendly esf, etc. that's all it takes to get a kill or an assist with the SG, you just need to know when and who to engage in combat with.

I also use AP lightnings and vanguards for AA duties, and hit ESF pretty well even with the nerfed shell speeds, I'm also totally **** in FPS games, but still manage to do it quite consistently.

Making AA more effective in AV and AI roles would mean that there is a better chance that your faction mates are gonna light up the same target as you, dropping the TTK significantly.

Also, about being AV bait in AA sundies, that is definitely true, and if that is something you are concerned about, why not just grab 6 more guys and you'll have 3 fully manned AV tanks in a full squad.

So what you are saying is that the devs should nerf A2G weapons by like 70%?

I could support that change, at least we would be deterrents against each other then. All it would take is some ground lock ons and one or two Liberators to have shot at my Lightning for the final ESF to kill me with his Hornets.. a team effort!

"Fighting in the area" =/= "AA present". It is extremely rare for multiple G2A sources to be present unless there is a consistent group of aircraft attacking for an extended period of time. It just shows what you know.

But hey you can put your money where your mouth is and show us your performance with G2A weapons on Fisu or an unedited video right?

When Oracle Of Death was alive we could see some nice numbers, one of which was that almost all G2A weapons consistently killed more ground vehicles than they did aircraft. Consider that players including you realise how bad G2A is against ground units and then let it sink in that G2A weapons are WORSE at actually killing aircraft. That puts your imaginary experience with the Skyguard into perspective doesnt it? Even if you were right, and its possible that you cherry-pick your fights with the Skyguard to succeed like you do (that is how I auraxed the Skyguard), the overall experience of everyone else is way waaay worse.

You are asking the most lone-wolf vehicle to be countered by teamwork, thats odd isnt it? Like Botji said we should then change that to be more equal right? A2G should be a deterrent and require other players to effectively be able to kill a vehicle right? Teamwork FTW!

You guys like putting words into other peoples mouths for sure.

You can read what I've said, I don't hide anything between the lines.

I've also not said anything about the ESF being only counterable by teamwork, that's just silly.

You guys seem to have a hard time grasping what is actually happening and what is your imagination.

You simply ignore unconvenient truths.

You ask us to use teamwork against the most lone-wolf vehicle in the game, which is what at least 2 entire post of yours are about. Using weapons that are designed from the ground up not to kill the aircraft but deter them instead, which you yourself already point out doesn't work because they'll just fly somewhere else which is not deterrence but shifting the problem somewhere else.

You have your own imagination trying to justify a broken system. The fact that you try to spin this on us is stupid.

Its yet another case of Pilotitis, no point talking with them as its a illness that affects the mind making it impossible to see reality and they will happily contradict themselves after just a few posts or be unable to see clear parallels like "Ground should need teamwork to kill Aircraft" = "Aircraft should need teamwork to kill Ground", it will just error them out and be outraged how you could even propose such a stupid idea even if they themselves said it first and for them its a completely different statement if you turn it around like that.

Its where my frustration with the A2G subject comes from, the endless battle against Pilotitis is pointless because its like trying to explain the colour green to someone that can only see red and they will insist that the grass is red.

The development teams of the past have pushed hard to make aircraft a stronger presence in the game. The entire Bastion ideal was based around that and boy was it an epic failure.

It's become a joke with this game.

Q: "What do you call a decent GTA weapon?"'
A: "Nerfed next patch"

Taking a rifle team or tank shell's to down a light fighter withing a decent TTK? That's what it's become.

And we also have the god liberator. Not only can that thing turn to it's side and shoot down aircraft in a single shot with it's AG gun but it can lay waist to anything on the group with ease.

I think you've described the AA problem well here. The only thing effective isn't. It's just a deterrent. The idiot that pushes against it gets killed but anyone with half a brain doesn't. This is with people on the ground stopping doing stuff on the ground and instead dedicating several of them to doing AA.

Flip things.

Those same players instead coordinating with equipment to do the A2G farming...

They ARE effective, not just a deterrent. If they deter the infantry into literally packing up and going to a different base then the Air just goes there at a whim and continues.

A2G in its current state is a broken mechanic in the game. AA options available to vehicles are a deterrent. AA options available to infantry are one of the best stand up comic routines in all of 3D Shooters. Netflix should book a special.

Remove flak. Replace with a direct fire Canon. Eliminate spawn room fighting. I refuse to elaborate.

no and we talked this back and forth already years ago, so forget it, flak will stay ... again MORE.PROPPER.options .. not removing options ..

as much as i would like a better G2A vs A2G game this is very much something i disagree with there should not be such a thing as build this and deny X their play entirely ... buff current AA options, offer more AA options with missileturrets on vehicles like either the pelter or hyena, even hornet heck maybe G2A lock on launcher that still has dumbfire against ground ..
a saron like AA gun/repeatercannon has been suggested a number of times .. nanite singleuse AA missile - and AV launchers have been suggested ..

... the thing that still p sses me of though is how stupidly dificult it is to fly ESFs in this game for A2A fights ... there is soooo much room for improvement in this game but the devs seem to lack the will, manpower, resources or balls to do it ..

see its an interesting situation.
liberator dies to any decent esf or battle galaxy group.
2 groups of 3 esf with air locks kills you instantly. (no counterplay)
3 sets of 2 esf with air locks kill you instantly. (no counterplay)
galaxy wins the extended trades because repairs and lots of guns focused on you. (to be fair its like a whole squad shooting 1 lib)
skyguard will kill you if you try and get on target after its shooting you and it can hit you from 800 meters with enough accuracy to be a threat.
get too low to the ground and tanks kill you.
light assault rockets do far too much damage to libs.
ranger sundy + any ground lock wins.
And on top of this there is ALWAYS some ******* in the spawn room with a burster max at least 2 bases over that way that can hit you just fine.


Tank buster cant tank bust anymore.
Vector and spur are HMG damage so you cant even damage an ext to save your life.
Galaxy had 75% hmg resist which was buffed to 80% because the vector could pivot. now it still has 80% and vector cant pivot (which nerfed everything form godsaws to gorgons to drakes against galaxies. also flak projectile direct hit is HMG)

You need to sit on people with a duster to make it useful, and then your not killing the sundy.
Dalton kills the sundy and any dip**** standing still.
Bulldog does decent direct damage but using both of those means you lose to anything in the air trying to shoot you.

You still think A2G is strong? I remember when the dalton was more likely to flip your tank with its impulse.


Some things we could to would be larger hardlight domes to protect mans on the ground.
Missiles could get a damage buff but only if they can be shot down. (aimed mainly at ext A2A squads)
"micro" construction that lets you build some things inside no build zones to help with defence on the ground.

At the end of the day we have to accept that sometimes its better to not spawn at the base in question and help deal with air or open another spawn point. It is in my opinion that bases that border other teams bases should not have functional spawn rooms such that spawn points are important for everyone in the battle. This way tanks have something to do other than farm mans and the infantry have other objectives that are not cramming as many people as possible onto a capture point and shooting out a doorway.

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Why not though? It doesn't have to be COMPLETE denial, and for once it might force air players to actually have to coordinate with the other elements of the game instead of just doing their own thing- meaning they'd need to rely on a ground force to move in and take out the AAA site.
As for denial, it could have something like a 15 degree minimum elevation angle which would allow aircraft to avoid its detection by flying low. The closer they get, the lower they have to fly. Now you've got options, either you risk flying low and exposing yourself to regular G2A or you get out of your aircraft / ask ground forces to go remove the AAA site.

I just want a viable anti-air counter. Infantry can die easily to infantry, vehicles, planes. Vehicles can die easily to infantry, vehicles, planes. Air? A solo ESF? The only hard counter is another ESF specced for anti-air. It blows my mind that a Python is the best non-air anti-ESF weapon in the game. The weapon is made for ground AV, has no homing, and takes way more effort to land than anything a ground-pounder has to perform.

Skyguard? Nice "deterrence", bro.
Walker and Ranger? Barely an issue unless you have three or more of them against one ESF.
AV Turret? Not with that ~300m max range, limited turning radius and five second setup time.
AA MAX? Costs more, still loses. At worst it causes a reset for the pilot.
Decimator? Maybe against a stationary target.
Lancer, Striker, the other HA AVs? Only in groups-- thankfully they're free so I don't actually think they should win 1v1 here.

Pound for pound, a good solo pilot has way more influence than a solo Prowler, or a solo non-Berserker MAX, or pretty much any nanite-based pull you can make, and it's entirely due to the sparse selection of viable counters. Maybe buff the Skyguard, Walker and Ranger so they're no longer a joke? Honestly it's the same issue Harassers had, just magnified: fast as hell, hard to swat, punches up without much effort. At least with old Harassers you needed two to three users to do it.

I don't expect it to change, but it should have been addressed a long, long time ago.

When it comes to AA the TR infantry has the best options with the T2 "Striker", more of those dumbfire lock on weapons would be great (like a NS vehicle turret option). A MAX with double Mercy gattlings can also make short work out of an ESF if the pilot doesn't get away fast. The NS 20 Gorgon is also a better alternative than bursters. (Simply because it's easier to hit with the MGs)

I think the main problem is that flak (Bursters, Skyguards, AA base turrets and the ranger) are way to inaccurate to get the projectile close enough to the target and if it hits it has too less damage per shot to counter the amount of projectiles that miss

incoming wall of text ...

it shouldn´t require a single lone large AA installation for a particular unit to be willing to coordinate with other platforms ... that should already happen with the current plattforms by default ... ...

simple example .. breaker ESF comes in for general sunderer/infantry busting .. spawning infantry of 3 with any AA option (rockletrifle or G2A launcher) should bust the thing in no time the moment it dares to get too close .. if there is a additional burster Max with them the thing should be toast immediately ... a max has as much nanitecost as a galaxy/Lib and mbt yet even with cover has little survivability even against a loneoperated MBT and Lib .. bring in a daltonlib even with 2 Maxes they get scraped on .. 2 skyguards? esfs laugh in turboboosting ... lib also laughs in turboboosting and daltoning ...


even then, a different way to go with PMBs is to simply allow still 3 PMB turrets max per player but ANY 3 ... so meaning you may not take a AV or AI turret for an additional AA turret or go straight 3 AA turrets ..


point 3: how should said large tactical AA installation operate? ... surely can´t be automated because you already have automated turrets for that and if the thing was anything like a lock on SAM launcher pilotsalt would come in like a tidalwave ... .. remotecontrolled with some sort of marker? how? also why when you have so many directfire options already? .. i mean ok maybe an infil or medic (who don´t have any AA capabilities of their own) could make use of it but that to me still seems unnecessarily timeconsuming of a setup even if RPG were to cut general PMB construction in half ..

seriously the simplest sollution would be to give both infils and medics AA capability at the cost of AI capability
give them both access to the rockletrifle as a primary option .. BAM now both can defend themselves (being able to supplement the AA/AV Capability with a fitting AI sidearm like commissioner, pilot or emissary) and provide support against both vehicles and aircraft .. and rockletrifles aren´t that strong by themselves on a rather grounded lightassault but archive clear deterrence and become deadly pretty quick with 2 to 3 infantry ..

buff current AA on vehicles to be capable/decent (not obviously good) at non-AAduty to not be entirely impotent .. skyguard for example has decent/okayish AV capability were as burster MAX and ranger ANTs/Sunderers can´t defend themselves for scrap (again MAX lacking general survivability outside of bases with and without cover, at least ANTs/sunderers have access to walkers for ranged AI capability) .. and for gods sake add more AA options with missilelaunchers .. every aircraft has them, with the exception of harassers and MBT´s (primarily with the halberd, which imho could get a AI nerf) why can´t the rest of the vehicles ( and engineer with more manaturretoptions as well as a higher pitch on their current options)? ...

sure that might be a lot of but still mostly rather small changes (with the exception of moddeling lightningturrets and engineer manaturrets) but that would improve the infantry v vehicle v aircraft game by a significant margin without ripping aircraft off their antigroundpotency (heck ESFs themselves need improvement in different areas) and you would have TONS of ways for any combined arms vs combined arms composition ..

Years ago? Have you still not learned how to fly?