Note: This is cross-posted to the Light Assault Class Discussion forum. Click here to get to it! Greetings PS2 Community and Team, I am setting out to make a case for why Light Assault should simply be rolled into Engineer, thus removing Light Assault as a class and allowing players to use their abilities as an Engineer. They have the exact same armaments, defenses, and utilities, in terms of their certifications, except for a few differences. Light Assault really isn't very useful beyond the jets, as it has no other utilities, so there is no reason why it couldn't happen. The main change is that jumpjets would be equipped instead of an ACE that can complete ACE tool functionality (MANA turret and ammo pack), and that the Light Assault + Engineer merge would bring the ability to use jump jets with the repair tool. This is great for keeping the turrets on towers and large bases in good repair, as well as giving one more tool to help engineers get out of the way of tanks on the battlefield. Since Light Assault is a class without tools, there is no alternate device that would be chosen instead of the Engineer Repair Tool. One last feature that this adds is that jumpjets and ammo resupply packs could be used together - which was around in the E3 Demo and Tech Test if I remember correctly. Their differing abilities would work well for either class. The Adrenaline Pump makes perfect sense for a repair engineer, to dart from vehicle to vehicle faster, generator to generator faster, and to get out of the way of friendly vehicles faster. Likewise, the ability for a jumpjet-based deployer to carry additional mines or C4 would enhance the role instead of reducing it. While Light Assault doesn't currently have access to Tank and Anti-Personnel mines, it wouldn't upset gameplay balance whatsoever to put these in the hands of Light Assault (especially because AP mines are only useful where enemies are actually going to run, and tank mines where vehicles will drive, so using jumpjets to put mines down isn't adding much to their strategic value). Sticky grenades make sense for Light Assault (accurate grenade placement while gliding), and both Flash and Smoke grenades make sense for Engineers (to help them escape infantry or obscure vision) So there are plenty of reasons for the classes to be merged. Engineer picks up a few abilities that make sense, Light Assault picks up a few abilities that make sense, and nothing has to be lost or compromised to make it happen. On the other hand, this could reduce the potential for Light Assault to be developed further as a class. Right now it is just jets and a gun, with no class-specific tools aside from grenades and adrenaline booster, it really is mostly featureless compared to other classes. Spotting tools, tools that improve mobility for friendlies, and possibly a 10 second timed charge that will blow up whatever it is set on (except generators) but can be disarmed, would be tools that could improve Light Assault. Those sound like Engineer tools too. For as similar as the two classes are in equipment and abilities, I have an easier time seeing the two be merged than not. Light Assault really needs some serious character development for me to think otherwise. Even if it means giving them an extra grenade by default, and maybe an extra magazine or two by default, or doing something else to compensate for their lack of other tools. I haven't scored the Light Assault forum to see all the suggestions everyone has made on this subject, but I feel like looking at Light Assault in the context of it being merged with Engineer will help to illuminate the similarities and lack of added utility that Light Assault provides. I'm in no way saying that jumpjets and C4 are bad, but that there is so little to Light Assault that it would gain a lot from being rolled into Engineer, and that Engineer would gain a lot by absorbing Light Assault, but that it wouldn't be anything imbalanced or game-breaking.
No. Both Light Assaults and Engineers have vastly different roles on the battlefield, and both perform their role exceedingly well already. Furthermore, no class should have mines, repair tools, AND jump jets. Jump Jets alone are an incredibly good item, and AT mines, as much as I love them, should never be combined with jump jets. That turns an already strong item into an OP one (essentially a better C4) and turns the outclassed C4 into an anti-infantry weapon, which is the AI mine's territory. I think you severely underestimate how broken the combination of mines and jumpjets are, as well as how game-changing allowing that combination to exist would be. TL;DR You can't make a single class with both everything LA has and everything Engineer has because that class would be far too flexible and powerful. There is also no need to merge them.
Heavy assault is already extremely versatile and powerful, and I feel like this would help bring LA+E up to the level of Heavy Assault in usefulness and versatility. Right now a HA with anti-vehicular grenades, anti-air rockets, and a good HA-only weapon has the ability to kill anything and everything on the battlefield. And they have a shield on top of that. LA+E will still only have small arms fire and eventually the MANA AA turret (no jumpjets with an ACE) to counter air, and instead this makes the combined LA+E class (maybe call it Assault Engineer) effective against ground troops and vehicles in a completely different way than either of them can do alone right now. Remember that there are also deploy limits, so the amount of deployables placed at once would prevents a player from completely shutting areas down. Eventually there will also be tools that allow for the safe removal of planted explosives, no clue when though, I think explosives can just be shot til they explode or disappear right now. Reduced capacities for mines (maybe a max of 10 or 15 of both mines, and they cost 100 or more infantry resources each) would prevent a player from spamming mines.
Oh HEEEEEEELL NO!!!! Think of it, flying up a bio-dome, planting a turret and killing everybody below? Too OP, and I agree with marzipanzer, they have way different roles.
Dunno. I do think that some classes lack focus, which might be caused to some point by there being too many classes doing similar things so they had to cut here and there. Not sure how much I would like to merge engineer and LA. I mean i would personally love it, but it seems a bit overkill. Engineers aren't really in a bad position as they are. Especially if engineers get some more goodies to combat armor and air. Infiltrators getting jumpjets seems a bit more logical (you'd lose stealth ofc), and might give that class a bit wider field to play on. Biggest problem here (and reason why this was split anyway) is dome camping snipers in each base. I would level the field a bit by making giving engineers more power to counter armor/air just like the heavy. Probably through the turret and explosives.
Planting a turret and using jumpjets are in the same ability slot, and thus would not be able to be used together. Turret OR Jets, not both!
Yeah, the team decided earlier in the project that jets and a sniper is way too much power. Medic and Engineer could be rolled together too I bet.... On a Venn diagram of certs and gear, Engineer and Light Assault overlap 90%, so the weapon class change wouldn't be as severe as if LA was rolled into another class (in fact there wouldn't be any weapon class changes needed at all). Same carbines and shotguns, most of the same certs, just that mines get in the mix too... and a repair tool, and the option for mobility or turret placement.
Well then those loadouts are almost like two seperate classes, since they're so different. I feel like the classes should stay the way they are, especially since LA is gonna get some unique goodies of its own pretty soon.
Hmmm, I gave this some thought and think that the points raised are valid; but both classes just need to be more streamlined in their roles imho. I play an Engineer as a main and love mines but I think the LA should be able to deploy them as they can surge forward and back much easier which allows for more support of fringe areas. I also think the LA should also have all the short-mid range carbines and give Engineers the mid-long range rifle options for the same reason. The LA can also advance and fall back a lot easier to deploy mines and early warning systems for perimeter defense. As a replacement for not having mine options I would like to see the engineer get more support deployables like a shield, heavy grav field (ground area which slows movement), pain field, health regen field, energy drain/boost field, automated turrets or decent-mana/ace turrets. Basically; where the LA should be equipped to support from the sides, the Engineer should be equipped to support from the rear.
Fixed. AT mines > C4 at taking out vehicles, why you ask? first off 1 point into AT Mines gives you 2 mines which can kill a MBT/sunderer, 1 point into C4 gives 1 C4 which can barely kill an 80 year old woman. Secondly you have to detonate the C4 while the mines can be laid down, even under stationary vehicles, and they'll go off within a few seconds automatically allowing you to switch to a gun to take down any infantry trying to stop you. Throwing a small rock at a plane > Nemesis, why you ask? Since release they nerfed the dmg on the nemesis (which should be renamed to "Waste of 7 dollars") which basically forces you to get another hit on any plane to take it down. Unless you have a fair amount of people focusing on the same plane, even if you do damage it'll usually just fly away for repairs. Some argue that in itself is an accomplishment but when you look at the fact that even ESF's can easily take out MBT's, it seems a little lopsided. Any other classes main weapons > HA's main weapons, why you ask? Don't get me wrong, for surpressive fire LMG's really can't be beaten, even faction specific weapons like the lasher are godly at surpressing, but the guy I replied to said HA's are good at killing, and for killing power LMG's are lacking. Heavy does have access to a few other weapons that have killing power, but the LMG isn't one of them. I'm also not saying you can't get kills with an LMG, I'm just saying that other classes have better main weapons for that purpose.
I just can't agree with any of this. First off, I didn't even mention C4 when talking about HA. 2 missiles in the rear of any Lightning or MBT is a kill, and with persistence plus either anti-vehicular grenades or extra rockets, they can even take out a Sunderer. I roll with a PPA on my Magrider to take care of infantry, just to make absolutely sure that HA can't get free shots in without having to dodge giant disco balls of plasma. Secondly, I'm pretty happy with the Nemesis. I prefer them over anything else for AA, because they force Liberators to move or die, and ESF to use a flare then move or get hit on the second lock. Higby keeps saying that ground forces aren't supposed to be able to murder aircraft, so as far as I'm concerned, this is the best a HA rocket is gonna get (faster travel speed on AA rockets would be nice though!) and the ability to lock-on seems to clear air from the area way better than a Skyguard or other flak weapon in my experience. I've been using an alternate character with a SVA-88 and a couple different scopes... maybe I'm just a good player in a field of noobs, but I get a lot of streaks with that character. Headshots and using the shield properly are the keys to long engagements, but I'm pretty confident with the SVA-88 with either the NV scope or the VS 2x Reflex. I can't speak for the HA of other classes, though a good friend of mine showed me how easily he could murder with the MCG so I think TR is fine too. HA is the only class with all-range damage capabilities. A VS MAX can technically go with the Burster and Comet, but then they are just half a tank killer and half an air scratcher. Engineers will eventually have better MANA turrets, and having a MANA AA turet and tank mines will let them be harmful to all classes and vehicle types in a different way than HA. Infiltrators will eventually be able to hack and detonate parked vehicles, though that isn't quite the same. Medics and Light Assault will probably never have anything but small arms fire to counter air. I'd be fine with Infiltrators (except when enemy air turrets are hackable nearby) and Medics being the only ones who can't really hurt air. Rolling Light Assault into Engineer would kinda work, even though that is just combining a class that can potentially attack all ranges with one that is meant mostly for infantry and battlefield mobility.
i was rather happy to see the roles were very seperated in PS2 Since i'm not very good at shooting, i had zip chance in PS1. And those guys, you know: HA guy with adv med / combat eng, adv hacker kind of things would have all the points :lol: . NOW you really HAVE to choose and take all the disadvatages with it...
I don't think that engineers need the jump-jets.(being able to fly over and instantly kill any vehicle is definitely op) As for LA if you gave them Laser Designators, it would first, give the lock-on warning that cause vehicles to flee, and if it came with air craft being able to launch (big)guided missiles it would make them (op?) but LAs main role is to get around barriers both man-made and natural Edit: just looked at your other thread; well apparently there are more engineers then LA.
Higby mentioned it in his stream yesterday. My point is that, as Assault Engineer, you'd have two loadouts, one with jetpacks and no ACE, and one with an ACE and no jetpacks. That's basically just the LA and Engi classes.
Right... but giving Adrenaline Booster to Engineers or capacity for extra deployables to LA would make both of them better. Just having the option to be a LA with an Engineer tool adds utility to the class. Sticky Grenades make more sense for LA, Smoke and Flash Grenades would be great for Engineers.
No. LA's are for flanking over obstacles that no other class can reach, as well as going vertical to survive in CQC longer (depending). Engineers are for repairing and resupplying your Infils, HA’s Medics, LA’s, and MAX’s. That and the occasional turret, or if you have certs in it, laying mines. Granted you can tweak the infantry fighting ability of both with the right weapon purchase, but in general those are their roles. And I like my engie role. If I had jump jets AND a repair tool, I’d be so OP it’d be hilarious. Could probably hold one of the defensive towers by myself against multiple enemy aircraft and tanks (although infantry would be an issue). Even worse if I got mines as well. AP mines at the entrance or the jump pads and I'm a single-man fortress.
You are putting mines in places that people can already go so it isn't like Light Assault get some special bonus aside from getting to the placement point faster. There's still a deployable limit, so it isn't like you can spam the mines everywhere. It sounds to me like you'd be very crafty and creative with the jumpjets while repairing. Don't you think it is fine because everyone would have the same ability to do those things, and being effective is just a matter of knowing how to play the Assault Engineer class?
No. Just because you can't roll out and rip everything to shreds face to face with an LA doesn't mean it's useless. In fact, an engy with jets would be stupid op, because taking away the mana turret hurts absolutely nothing. LA has it's use and requires a specific playstyle. Plus engy with jetpack and it's AT/AP capabilities would be insane.
