Claymores Versus VS/NC AP Mines

First off, I'd like to make it clear that I'm aware there are many other threads about this topic. I'm of the opinion that there can't be too many of these threads out there, as maybe public outcry is required to motivate SOE to get some **** done. If you're looking for more discussion on technical nature of ap mines or other proposed changes, I suggest looking at some different threads after this one.

So I've been a dedicated TR player for several months now, and finally decided to try out claymores.
For those of you that are unenlightened, claymores are the Terran Republics anti personal mines- you drop them on the ground and they detonate in the presence of enemies. However, there are some obviously noticeable differences between claymores and the Vanu and New Conglomerate mines, the proximity mine and bouncing betty. These mines are roughly disk shaped, have a low profile, and, when dropped, explode outwards at a 360 area after a short delay. The TR mine, however, is an entirely different creature: Large, bright red, and bulky, this box shaped mine has a completely different blast radius- a mere 90 degrees! (quarter of a circle). Its only advantage, if you could call it that, is the fact that explodes immediately, which can actually **** you over in some situations.
This brings me to the point of my post: What the **** was SOE doing?!
I'm of the personal opinion, that depsite all the hate and b*tching that goes on in the forums and in the community in general, SOE has in general done a wonderful job developing this game. That said, there are definitely some elements in the game that make me wonder if some of the developers got quite enough oxygen while in utero. Anyways, there are several major problems in the game ATM, mines just being one of them.
While claymores are still extremely useful for guarding doorways, one of their most valuable functions (in my eyes at least) has been completely nullified: chucking the damn things into large groups of zerging enemies. I've seen this happen countless times ingame and on YouTube: an interprising VS/NC infiltrator will run behind a mob of eneimeis behind a rock or building, chuck some mines down, and BOOM! instant megakill. While I'm not arguing that this is a fair or balanced use of the mines, the fact is, its there, and I believe that if something is going to be unfair, it should be unfair equally.
That may sound a bit dumb, but ATM I see only 2 real solutions: change claymores to behave more like the other two mines or change the other two to behave more like claymores.
C4 is common pool, why not mines? Frankly, I have no idea.
I'm just trying to stimulate discussion on the subject and hopefully raise the devs awareness, so please, leave a comment and explain your ideas on the subject. I know some players almost never use or encounter mines, and the NC/VS obviously won't care about this as much as TR, but it is an issue in the game that needs to be fixed.
Again, leave a comment with any comments/question/advice/ideas you have. It would be much appreciated.
Hoping to see you soon on the battlefields of Auraxis!
Thank you for your time.

I think claymores work perfectly at defending a capture rooms / corridors. But the bbs and proxies have the advantage that they can be used as C4 against groups of infantry.

Otherwise they are all pretty balanced.

As Higby pointed out regarding NC weapon balance. Sometimes having an inferior weapon is just as important for flavor as the good stuff. The fact that claymores aren't as good is likely as intentional as the vanguard being the best tank, and the orion being the best CQC LMG.
Factions have their perks and downsides. Now, the catch is, the thing has to actually be able to perform its primary role, and the thing has to be fair to the enemy.
Examples of bad items for the VS, since I know the VS as good as anyone.
The magrider- Its a terrible MBT that needs some looking at since it fails to perform its primary role. Which is why I drive a lightning.
The ZOE- terribly unfair for those on the receiving end. Its one thing to have the best MAX, but the curve here is way too high.

Other things that come to mind.
The mod. enforcer.
The old strikers
Tthe old pheonix (One hit kill infantry pheonix)

Now I'm not here to burst your bubble. I just feel that the claymore can do its primary role just fine. I heard it had problems with placement. that needs to be fixed, but its performance at a secondary ability can just be notched down as 'flavor'.

I'll trade you bouncing betties for:
Fractures
Vulcan
Marauder

Deal?

I do wonder why NC / VS don't get different AI mines from each other. I like that ours is 'different', but only in some circumstances. For instance, while repairing a stand-alone base turret (ie its just a maglift + raised turret), it's nice to be able to put one down and stand behind it. Someone will come up the lift then POOF, they get hit and I do not thanks to the 90º or whatever directional damage.

I agree, it would be nice to infil spam them in crowded rooms, as cheesy as it is

I'll trade my anti infantry mines with claymores on the spot. Right now they are the best anti infantry mines in the game, by a huge margin.

• Highest damage
• Biggest blast radius
• Lowest visibility (no flashing lights, need to check both sides of a doorway before entering instead of merely looking down)

They only thing you can't do as easily is frizby them while running around. Which is probably why you are complaining, if I can deduce from the infiltrator icon.

If you want to argue that these are unfair or overpowered, feel free to do so.

Elsewhere.

/On topic:

The one change I would love to see SOE do is add a deployment timer to mines. Far to many times do I see NC/VS players use mines as a suicide bomber device, or just leisurely throw them out while being pursued around a corner, safe in the knowledge that they will explode on proximity and kill the pursuer. This unintentional use of mines needs to end, now. Add a deployment timer to all mines. TR already have to stop and think about where to put theirs down due to the explosion angle, so if there was a 2-3 second long process involved in putting one down, people could put down mines when an where intended, and there would be time to stop people from using these as glorified grenades. If you are oblivious enough to let a NC/VS players deploy one in the middle of your allies, well, you deserve the outcome.

This man speaks the truth!

Claymore are just ridiculous since the anti personal mines buff (they never needed one in the first place). They are much harder to see, and they will instantly kill you 100% of the time you activate one. I don'T know how claymores cost as infantry ressources but if you want to be able to just throw them in group of people like bouncing betties, SOE might as well just give us the choice to buy kills directly with infantry ressources. I still don't understand why they are in the game. They are the most rewarding item for the lowest effort given at the same time. Completely disrupts the flow of battles and impossible to counter (unless they're being placed by complete idiots)

Wow, no. I think this guy is just trying to enrage some TR forumsiders. There are few people who think the TR's claymore is in any way better then the other two. most of my engy mine placement depends on people coming from several angles. A claymore can only protect one. Thats a big deal.

All I wanted to say was that its intentional. Sort of like how the NC are always complaining about their lack of high-rof LMG. Even after they balance NC weapons its unlikely they will ever have one.

So, it sucks, but I don't think SOE is ignorant about how claymores perform.

Yea, totally agree, Claymores are the best AP mine in game!
And the only reason they have 4 times less KPU is because all TR players can't play for **** and NC and VS are all MLG-pro! Everyone knows that! Right.... right?

Ever since the perpetual NC balance discussions it's a known fact that TR draws in the more teamplay aligned players. In their highly competetive and tacticool minds they simply lack the understanding to use such a cheap and cheesy weapon like an AP mine, unlike the NC lonewolves.

It's all down to player demographics, or simply put: L2P

/sarcasm

This.



Claymores (since the last buff) are the BEST mines for using as mines.

They have two problems only:

1. Placement (they should be able to be turned 180 as you place them).
2. The aren't as good for "suicide dropping".


1. should be fixed, but if 2. was (somehow) then Claymores would just be the hands down best AI mines (thinking about it 1. would considerable buff 2. anyway).

No one that uses VS or NC mines drops them in LOS (they drop them at the edge of doors behind door frames, not in the center).

Stick a Claymore in the middle of a door and yes it is worse than VS or NC mines there, but why would anyone DO that? (when all 3 mines are much better placed out of direct LOS and there the Claymore works best - so long as you can place it the right way).

The changes that improved the TR mines considerably in addition to the ones that lowered the effectiveness of NC/VS mines are relatively recent. Prior to that:

• The TR mines always had more damage
• The TR mines had red beams that were quite visible
• The TR mines had the same area of effect with the other mines.
• The VS/NC mines had no pulsating lights

The only thing you need to know about the TR mines is that the mine is on the perimeter of the blast, instead of it's center, like the NC/VS mines. If people drop them in the middle of the doorway, as I frequently observed, and expect the same results, I don't know what to say.

You can, but you are cutting the NC/VS mine effective area in half, at best, in the same spot where the TR mine works optimally.

In the end it may come down to perspective.

• If you play mostly engineer, then TR mines are hands down the best.
• If you play mostly infiltrator, then NC/VS mines are still better.

Claymores are ok as they are. You only have to learn to use them effectively. They're more noticeable than others but that's not always a bad thing. And when it is, there's always a way to hide them or to place them somewhere not expected.

I played once as a lonewolf infiltrator and I was fighting against another lonewolf infiltrator in an amp station, trying to kill eachother. I put a claymore just on the doorstep, very visible, near a console he hacked that I hacked back to get his attention. The claymore in that case was not put for ambush purposes but as a bait: the console was in a room with two entrances. I guarded one of them, but I put the claymore in the one I was expecting the enemy would come. When he arrived he saw the claymore and made it explode with ease without hurting himself, but that was what I expected: he didn't die BUT he did told me where he was, making the mine explode. From that on, my ambush and his death was just a matter of seconds

Current Claymore is absolutely fine. Proxy and Betty could use less blinking lights and some actual differences between each other, but otherwise kill quite nicely too.

Big -1 to making mines common pool. We need more faction flavour, not less.

At least someone gets it.

Frankly I could care less about how they balance free-kill devices.

Claymores are great now. My problem with them is they seem to be the mines most likely to sink into the terrain. Wish they would fix that.

I'm fine with claymores the way they are right now, especially after the recent AP mine buff, but they seem like they don't go off half the time since OMFG, I've seen way too many enemies walk right by, or even stand right in front of them, while they shoot me in the head and kill me. Doesn't happen every time, but it always happens when I need them to work the most.