Can We All Agree Now?

The "be there before them" argument only works when you're already maintaining contact with an enemy force. And when you are, yes, that's effective - not because you're there waiting for them, but because if you enter a defense scenario in that state, it's because you got pushed back to your base. And with the current state of bases, means you're probably going to lose it, even if you're only slightly outnumbered. Which pretty much highlights the problem with base design right there.

The "go find them first" argument isn't counter-attacking. It's just attacking. Counter-attacking would be when you get pushed back into the base, respawn somewhere else with reinforcements or armor, and hit them in the flank while they're trying to take the base. This rarely happens outside of rather large organized outfits, because by the time you organize people and roll back in you've already lost the base and then some.

The solution is, they stop screwing around with trying to fix the fundamentally flawed base designs that already exist, and redesign them to have mechanics that slow the attackers down long enough for defenders to actually get in place to defend. Multiple layers of objectives to take, not just one layer and then SCU/cap, with the interior layers being relatively immune to assault until the previous layer has been neutralized.

Do this and you create bases worth fighting over.

Good post, but want to emphasize the above. This is exactly what will help defenders and make attacking even small outposts more enjoyable. This kind of change needs to be added to all bases to some degree.

I'm not sure what the OP wants me to agree with... but I will agree that the changes around spawn rooms was a good change.

The point, you missed it.

"be there before them" ?

1. Forces rush to meet incoming zerg and leave the base so the fight would be "on the field".
2. Every enemy soldier in one squad takes flash and ride to that base.
3. Squad beacon is set.
3. They die but, Deploy indicator shows up on the map / Squad leader takes infiltrator and use drop pod to spawn on top of the facility.
5. Others join in.
6. You fight to stop the zerg far away from the base, and mentioned enemy squad capture your base.

There it is. Your plan to stop them before they get in.

That's impossible. I made it.

This world is strange, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't always this way.

Since when did losing before one started become in vogue? It is even more disturbing that one would define the ingredients of their own fail.

I suppose I prefer to win.

I dunno. I see the same amopunt of camping, but worse.

Now, instead of blue arrows moving out toward the enemy, the blue arrows are all still in their spawn fortress.

Make no mistake, the reverse-camp crowd will be back with new demands when these spawnfortri don't cut the mustard.

I blame video game designers. Heck- look at SOE. They're following the money- you can't blame them but, seriously, guys with Masters Degrees are taking development advice from adolescents? Money.

A few years ago, single player scripted win games led players by the hand to their glorious victory. And they bought it. Alot. Games like AW3 (one of the first sandboxes?) folded. Devs learned their lesson. It must be easy, or it won't make money. Players learned their lessons. It must be easy, or it is poorly designed.

Its all I do.

This world indeed is strange, and I'm pretty sure it was and always will be this way.

I think you are gravely mistaken. I was not talking about me, I was talking about you. Failing.

It's not a matter of preferences.

Let me point it out then. The problem was never the spawn camping in itself. That is an important part of taking a base. The problem was how easy it was to spawn camp. Now they made it more difficult. So now, the battle isn't lost as soon as the first tank park next to the spawn, it's lost when the base flips as it should.

I've tried to make this point many times but people just seem to be to stupid to understand it.

This question is irrelevant to me. Whether on defence, offence or just in the middle of nowhere-behind enemy lines, I am always the one camping. I can camp you in my generator room, your generator room, and everywhere in between.

Get farmed at spawn? Get real, I haven't been farmed from a spawn point since I learned to redeploy (it isn't hard). Hell, 95% of my deaths involve me giving a nice hefty exp bonus to whoever it is who dropped me because of my massive kill streaks. (You are welcome by the way).

You can't stop camping from happening. Why? Because some people know how to position, and will always find people to camp no matter where they are and what they do. One day you will respawn somewhere you think is safe, pull up to that vehicle terminal and then *thwip*, you've been camped. One day you will walk around that corner to the next control point, and *thunk-thunk*, you've been camped. Getting the picture? Good. Now watch your back, cause I'll be there.

So what you're saying is... If the base is lost.. I shouldn't keep running into the Prowler's camped outside the spawn room? BLASPHEMY!

In a more serious note, the problem isn't running out to the prowlers camping the spawn room. The problem is Prowlers are able to camp all spawn rooms to begin with. Smaller outposts? Sure, go wild. Large facilities? Tweak them more so vehicles can't spam the spawns with HE rounds. This doesn't mean changing the spawn rooms themselves, this means changing base layouts so vehicles can't reach them.

Not all spawns should be immune to vehicle fire, not all spawns should be completely exposed either. Variety is good, shocking, I know. Biolabs are a good start, but there's a lot of room for more variation. Underground spawns have been suggested before and are another viable approach.

This of course will not stop infantry from camping spawn rooms. But if your spawn is being locked down by lowly foot grunts, then you've well and truly have lost. Redeploy. Redeploy. REDEPLOY! Spawn somewhere else and EARN the right to retake your territory, don't just wait for the flip timer to turn you into someone else's cert.

Tell me again how spawn camping is a fair way to ensure the cap of a base, how important it is and how i am wrong for thinking that spawn camping is easy wherever you go. The battle is lost when you are spawn camped, it's simple.

The new spawn layouts have changed nothing but make it slightly easier to fire back. I was defending a small region yesterday and guess what? The enemy instantly spawn camped me and 2 others with tanks and 1 esf. Why? Because NO ONE DEFENDS! That's the problem. Spawn camping is easy unless you have equal/more numbers, it's as simple as that. Nothing has changed, the battle is lost when you are spawn camped. End of.

Until defending becomes more profitable than attacking, only then will anything change But that won't happen.

Spawn camping has always been easy, it will always be easy.

it has nothing to do with the spawnfotress, it has everything to do with the campee.

Do you always project your tells upon others?

You are almost grasping it now. Think one step further now. If the base is lost when the spawn is successfully camped, what would happen if a design change makes the spawn harder to camp?