c4 vs fully certed MBT

To be fair: The best the tanker is known the more he will get targeted (and believe me, i know what it means to get targeted: klick ). Personally i experience that c4 fairies come for me more when i am playing HE, but that is obviously because i am standing closer to infantry fights, so there is just more infantry around. I can avoid a lot of these attacks by using prox radar, what i am not using with AP loadout.

But when i switch sides now: I do c4 kills myself. And the tanks i am really going tryhard for are those who farmed me and/or my squadmates with PPA and such. I would even waste 350 nanites for a stealth reaver and go for them as drifter LA with radar shield implant.

But i still agree with you in this discussion. Personally i enjoy Anti-tank a lot more. And every tanker going without the zerg, flanking and such has another, bigger problem than c4: air! And even when it comes to infantry, these strange "popping up in the middle of nowhere" heavy Assaults everywhere are pissing me off way more than c4 boys.

If C4 did 50% damage each, you could hop out repair a tick then when the second block hit you, you would live.
Or you could fire suppression, and then live.

There is a reason it does 80% on the first block, you wanted to know why, and that is my reasoning why they have it that way.

You can, its called flak armor.

Nope, most competent MBT's (1) run AP which negates Flak armor (2) kill you with direct hits regardless of what weapon they have. The incompetent ones aren't a threat in the first place. I find Flak armor is mainly useful against HE/grenade/rocket spam in bases, not useful when actually fighting tanks.

You are using DPS as a determinant of the effectiveness of C-4? That's like saying the effectiveness of my Force Knife is reduced due to the fact that I carry it all the time.

The power contained in 1 brick of C-4 has the MOST KILLING POTENTIAL of any weapon system in the game. It can have the same killing power of 3 snipers making simultaneous headshots and an AV MBT one shotting a MAX or potentially higher.

There is no AI cannon that could do that, there is no rocket that could do that, the only thing that comes close is an AV grenade and by default you can only carry one. I'm not saying C-4 is bad it has it's place, but I feel the killing power is completely ridiculous.

no I am telling you you are comparing a one time use burst weapon (C4) to a tank or a max, and saying it has more killing potential then both, which simply is not true.


1 stick C4 kills like you said 3 guys if you are good and its done, thats all the killing it will ever do no mater how good you get at C4 and its range is short, as in touch your enemies butt short.

1 tank can kill far more then 3 people and a few vehicles in its life time if piloted by an experienced player, since it is not a one time use burst weapon it can go even higher the better you get at it. it has ranged weapons and increases your speed.

1 max can kill countless infantry and even engage and win against vehicles with little support, and if you have a few team mates you become a wreaking ball. again with experience the kills come rolling in.


so which one has more "POTENTIAL" again? because I am not seeing what you are seeing, I am seeing experienced max and tank players raking in high kill counts and C4 users taking one of them out now and again for a fraction of the certs.

This discussion summarised:

nerf c4 arguments: *cry* People one hit kill my tank while I'm one hit killing infantry around me non stop
Its not enough that I can go third person view to watch everything around me! I want to be able to kill whoever damages me to then repair my tank somewhere safe. They should team up to kill a tank I can pull on my own! Its no fair :c



But seriously guys... wtf
C4 has a high resource cost. It is harder to actually get the c4 on a tank than it is for the tank to kill the infantry.
Vehicles are completely dominating this game as it is. Was the same crap with the deployment shield... If you want people to team up to take you down, pulling a tank and keeping it alive should be a teamwork objective too. In this game, it isnt.
So by all means, keep things 'fair' and stop talking about more nerfs to things other than HA's and vehicles.

"Nerf C4" arguments have more legitimacy than you think. Tanks are enormously more expensive, 450 nanites for a MBT and 350 nanites for a Lightning. How much does infantry cost? Zero. Infantry should not complain when they die because they will just be reborn somewhere for free.

The math simply does not add up. One block of C4 costs 75 nanites, and two blocks are needed to destroy any tank. So with only 150 nanites, an infantry can destroy a MBT which costs 450 nanites. How is that fair? It is absurd that a very inexpensive weapon is allowed to destroy a very expensive tank with one press of the trigger.

What about certification wise for an anti-tank build (after all, we are talking about destroying tanks)? In order for a MBT to kill a tank most efficiently, it needs the anti-tank turret, which costs 750 certs. For the tanks secondary, it needs the Halberd, which costs another 750 certs. That is a total of 1500 certs in order to kill a tank with another tank efficiently and with the lowest "time to kill". The time to kill with this kind of build is at least 6 seconds. Now for infantry, it costs only 700 certs to unlock two blocks to C4. Its time to kill is roughly 2-3 seconds.

The amount of damage C4 does is just simply absurd and illogical. C4 is incredibly inexpensive compared to a tank making it arguably a more viable anti-tank weapon than an actual anti-tank cannon. Infantry also have a stealth factor to be considered because it is much more easier for everyone to spot a tank than a tank to spot a soldier sneaking up behind it or a light assault flying above it. It is simply illogical that a high explosive, non-penetrative explosive is destroying tanks more effectively than an anti-tank cannon. Why aren't these tanks load with C4 rounds instead since there so effective against tanks? Shouldn't the most effective weapon against a tank is another tank like today's modern combat since Planetside 2 parallels modern combat so well?

Buffing tank armor against C4 wouldn't be the end of the world for infantry. There are a tons of other ways to kill tanks, though not as effective as C4, such as the engineer's AV-Turrets, base turrets, bombers, tanks, and hand held rocket launchers.

C4 is simply overpowered. Tank armor needs to be buffed against C4 so that two blocks of C4 puts a MBT on half health or a Lightning on critical.

real men get gud, not QQ on forums.

Nanites are also free, it takes 9 minutes to gather the nanites to get another MBT. The average lifespan of a tank is far, far longer than that. When your tank dies, your resources are full, it doesn't matter that it cost 450 nanites in the first place.

It's easy to say C4 is less expensive than a tank so it shouldn't be able to kill a tank, but tell me, how much nanite's worth of damage can one tank do in its lifetime? In theory, it's infinite. You could pull your 450 resource tank and play all day with it and destroy countless enemy tanks, sunderers, aircraft, infantry, and total up massive amounts of nanites "destroyed". Why is that fair? Clearly, by your own logic, tanks should stop functioning when they've dealt an equivalent of 450 nanites of damage onto enemy forces. That oughta shorten their lifespan quite a bit.

Do you plant your tank right next to the enemy spawn room? If so that would explain why C4 is such a bother to you. Otherwise there's no way the time to kill for C4 is 2-3 seconds. From the moment the infantry player spots your tank and decides to C4 it, there's probably several minutes of fighting through enemy infantry, hiding, flanking, to finally get within the poking range needed to place C4 onto the enemy vehicle who by this time really should have moved to another spot.
And that's not counting the failed attempts.

i agree that C4 is OP..........i use it alot....and i actually feel bad when i kill NC MAX units and vangaurds.............but when i fight vanu i throw C4 EVERYWHERE


i hate the VS on connory.........they always, ALWAYS have a PPA somewhere....and if there is a PPA nearby...i will find it....and i will kill it, no matter what it takes.....i once went 23 and 0......until i finally killed that goddam harrasser



anyways.....C4 needs to be toned down.........hell....if they made C4 less powerful as a trade off for having a faster detonator id totally go for it

I am sorry, what? Like you are going to live 9 minutes in your MBT when there is competent infantry around. If not C4 then max AV, lock-on nests, AV turrets and enemy air/armor will make short work of you. Not to mention you usually have to drive for quite some time in order to get a new MBT into the fight, since you cant pull them anywhere.

Not really, because you dont have to use C4. Your tank can quite easly die before it has even dealt any amount of damage (lock-on nests, tank mines, enemy flanks, ect). If you get instagibbed as a light-assault for any reason, you just respawn/get revived instantly and try again with 0 rescource costs.

I am sorry, several minutes? I am only a half-competent light assault and once i spot a tank that is too close to any sort of cover over 2m high i can usually kill him within seconds. Not to mention that when I am doing valkery drops with a few friends of mine, the enemy armor-zerg just melts. Drifters+radar shield+C4 on a LA is extremly OP, and the enemy armor cant even look upwards in order to see you comming.

I simply find C4 far too rewarding with not enough skill-involvement, on light assaults. If a medic or HA gets the C4 off, fine. I probably overextended or failed to spot him. But a LA can come from so many different places you just cant spot them all, especially not when they are comming from above and when you are dealing with a 100 different things at the same time. Not to mention they dont even have to hit the C4, it would just have to be somewhere near the tank...

IMO, c4 needs to get one of the following changes:
-Reduced rescource cost and damage.
-Reduced amount of bricks carried on LA.
-Certable counter to C4 on lightnings and MBT's.
-Decrease the area that makes C4 deal full damage. For example only the back of the tank would get full damage from a brick of C4, while a brick not even on the tank would barely do anything.
-

Your argumentation is flawed whereas you pay 450 for a tank that can repeatedly fire and kill things whereas the c4 is single use. And as I said... if they get that on your tank... You're the one thats failing. Don't drive your tank inside buildings then. But really... Comparing tank cost to c4 cost is ridiculous. One is a one time use while the other loves to grind infantry. GAL

Mate, we're discussing with idiots here... They just want tanks to be unstoppable forces. Their logic is flawed immensely and we won't ever agree with them. If they place tanks at the places they SHOULD be (fields and such) They should have no problem seeing c4 coming their way. They have third person too (should remove that tbh) And can repair any damage done to them if given some time. Theyre already overpowered as hell. But these are the same people that like to hate on classes other than heavies cause they don't go face to face combat and kill them as a heavy.

They want to be unstoppable gods. Lets leave this discussion... I hope these low intellectual ****nuts burn in hell.

If you would ever, ever, drive a tank, you would know this is a death sentence thanks to long-range infantry AV like max AV, lock-ons and AV turrets.

Actually, infantry also has the ability to repeatedly fire and kill things, sometimes more effectively than tanks do. For example, in urban combat, infantry is able to do a lot more than tanks. What I am arguing here is to nerf the effectiveness of C4 against tanks, not make tanks overpowered. If C4 is eliminated as a threat against tanks, there are still many other ways tanks can die, such as against bombers, AV-turrets, base turrets, mines, rocket launchers, and other tanks.

That is assuming that your tank can survive against multiple threats mentioned above for nine whole minutes. Technically, the lifespan of an infantry soldier with C4 is infinite because they just get reborn at some spawn point when they die. Unlike tanks, their infinite lifespan is larger than a tanks infinite lifespan because they are not restricted to the income of nanites.

Clearly, you do not even understand my logic. Tell me where in my arguments do I say that tanks should stop functioning when they have dealt an equivalent of 450 nanites. I am saying that it is cheaper and more efficient to kill a tank with C4 than with any other weapon.

If you are in a spawn room and you are surrounded by a massive opposing force, there is really nothing you can do. All you can do is kill some enemy infantry who decides to pop his head out once in a while. If you try to spawn an anti-vehicle tank, you are still going to have the same problem as an infantry with C4. That problem is how to survive long enough to destroy the enemy tank. The answer is, you don't.


Everyone here thinks to narrowly. Everyone needs to look at the larger picture. C4 by itself can do nothing without a soldier to plant and detonate it. Sure C4 cannot kill infantry as well as a tank, but the soldier carrying the C4 can. Not to mention, that same soldier is able to carry an anti-air rocket launcher or anti-vehicle rocket launcher, a shield, and grenades. Or that soldier is able to fly temporarily and also carry grenades. It is good that infantry is versatile, but it should not be so effective at everything such as destroying tanks through the use of C4. Besides, if C4 is nerfed so that it cannot destroy tanks with only two blocks, there are still many other ways to destroy tanks as mentioned above. Unlike infantry, tanks do not have that versatility. Tanks can't ward away aircraft with ground to air missiles. Tanks cannot kill infantry as effectively when loading AP shells and cannot for some strange cannot store two different types of ammunition in the same tank like in World War II. Tanks only have two options in order to be played effectively, anti-tank build or anti-infantry build. Once selected, there is no option to change, unlike infantry. Tanks don't need C4 to reduce its combat effectiveness even further. C4 needs to be nerfed.

If it's fully certed, why are you letting yourself get killed by C4? See, fully certed means nothing if you have zero situational awareness. You also have a secondary gunner and radar to counter it. The only way you can actually be dying to C4 is you are spawn camping. Here's a hint, stop spawn camping.

Dalton and ESF and ramming a vehicle that is smaller than yours. Looks like you should do your research next time.

MAXes can be revived, therefore their resource cost is insignificant. C4 can't be picked up or revived, so once it is thrown it must either be detonated or counted as a loss. That 3m radius for C4 also comes after the 10m throwing distance (with jetpack tossing) and 1-2 seconds of arming time. And finally, that 3m assumes that your target is not wearing flak. If they got flak, the radius shrinks drastically per level.

You can kill a C4 user 2 to 4 times over by the time they can detonate 1 to 2 bricks. I die less to C4 because I do a few things that most others cannot fathom doing for some odd reason:
-remembering that my mouse can traverse the z-axis
-not staying so close to MAXes and doorways that they fill my whole screen
-being a LA

Simple fixes to playstyle that keep you alive. I have a hard time considering you skilled if you can't figure out how to look up every once in awhile, considering that is where most C4 comes from. If you want a crutch, pick up an auto-shotgun or a fast ROF weapon and laugh at anyone else trying to use anything else. Virtually no meaningful downside to equipping the latter since bursting has been a thing since forever and you can disengage from battles at any time to account for longer reloads.

There is no valid reason why C4 is so effective AND available to multiple classes including medic. It is the MOST effective anti armor weapon out there. IF it was only effective against armor OR infantry it might be ok. If it was only available to certain classes , say engineers and heavy infantry it would be ok. Right now it is a super grenade usable by almost anyone.

Stop defending C4, it is cheesy and it is completely OP, that's why every guy I have that can use it , does use it.

Oh of course, I've been blind - next time I'm loaded up with AP and all the enemy tanks are dead I'll just sit there and have a wank instead of helping.