C4 - Overused and needs to be toned down

Please stop trying to make this game worse.

Worse for who? Not for me.

It would be worse for you. The amount of tank zerg in this game with a nerfed C4 would be outrageous. If you've been playing as much as you say you have, then you know what that type of tank zerg does to this game. It's awful. They would have to nerf damage resistance from other sources.

It would be worse for you. The amount of people who would stop playing because of that type of tank zerg would mean you'd be fighting in an even emptier game.

Address why you don't want to be able to be punished for not paying attention.

No, people would be forced to coordinate and call targets and light people up 1 by 1.

I realize now there's just a fundamental difference between the way you and I want the game. I'd rather have TTKs more like Planetside 1, where CQC gunplay was more meaningful and drawn out so the "see first wins" mentality that pervades this game could be negated by a skilled player with quick reaction times. The Sniper weapon in that game, the Bolt Driver, did not kill in 1 shot if you were full health. Took you down to almost crippling health, yes, but it didn't kill you. You had to land 2 shots. Tanks had a dedicated driver with a secondary gunner for the main cannon. TR prowler actually had a crew of 3, Driver, Cannon gunner, and secondary gunner. There wasn't much of the 1 hit kills. Tanks could run you over, and in effect some people did exactly that, but there was much, MUCH more cover in planetside 1 to hide behind. There weren't these wide open plains and exposed yawning hills. There were forests, real water, pillboxes, etc. Vehicles had high damage and had high TTK, but they were also much rarer because they required dedication from limited certs and absolutely required 2-3 people to use effectively.

C4 didn't cost resources, and it was deadly, but it had to be properly placed.

There is a fundamental difference in the way this game is, and the game you want to play. If you want this game to be PS1 go play PS1. It's not PS1 and never will be.

What you want from this game is too far from what it is. The amount of mechanics they would need to revamp and rebalance would mean that this game would be in such an unbalanced state for so long the game would die before it reached a balance. Either way, the C4 isn't going to be the first thing getting nerfed.

Address why you don't want to be punished for not paying attention in the game we are playing with low TTKs. BTW, the lack of cover in this game makes it harder to sneak up on a tank an C4 it.

Please, address the point I brought up in my first post in this thread.

Please, address the point I brought up in my first post in this thread.

The only ways an LA is going to be able to fly above you:

- He made his way close to you across flat terrain, which means you failed to spot him coming over the ground.
- He flew above you from a distance with Drifter jets, which means you failed to spot him coming through the air.
- He scaled some terrain and flew off from that, which means you failed to take your surroundings into account.

If I catch you unawares, make my way towards you despite being exceptionally vulnerable (remember, LA can't even ADS in the air now), I shouldn't be able to make you pay for your failure just because you're sitting snug in a tank?

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not trying to convince you. I'm just trying to show everyone else how bad your arguments are so that others don't mistakenly support you and run the risk of getting your bad idea actually implemented.

If he breaks concentration on me to shell my teammates, I kill him.

This has happened to me. A C4 fairy kept coming after me, over and over again. It's simply not safe to focus on anything else when the threat of insta-death is just around the corner.

You mean to tell me that you figured something out in 9 days played that this guy couldn't figure out in more than 20d played (supposedly)? The guy is so idiotically stuck in the mindset of a completely different game it's unbelievable. So much so that he refuses to get better at the game he's actually playing. He will never be able to tell anyone why he thinks he should be in a vehicle that is impervious to his obliviousness.

There are still people complaining about getting C4'd as a vehicle?

Here's how you deal with it as each vehicle type:

All Aircraft - Get a noose.. there's no helping you. I'm surprised you lived long enough to get C4'd
Vanguard - Press F
Prowler - Press W or S
Magrider - Press F* then W, A, S, or D. (Assuming Magburner is F, might be shift.. haven't played a VS MBT with the ability yet)
All other Ground Vehicles - Press W or S
Deployed Sundies - Take it. You should have Blockade if you're dedicated to deploying.

But this is all irrelevant. You're more likely to be teamkilled (on purpose or accidental), or better yet killed by terrain in a spontaneous vehicular suicide event. Rocks, Small Hills, and weirdly shaped buildings are worse than grues. Well if you're paying attention. If you're not, then you were killed while AFK.

What's the respawn timer? How long does it take to get to the tank (if this is less than a minute he's probably positioned badly)? How long does it take to kill someone when using a tank? Btw, I'm not saying you couldn't kill him. I'm saying he'd be able to kill people before you do. I'm saying that unless he's badly positioned and bad there's a good chance his tank cd will be ready by the time you do. Tanks shouldn't be impervious indefinitely to dedicated assaults.

Because Planetside 1 is an absolutely dead game population wise and I'm surprised SOE hasn't pulled the plug yet. When they made it free for 6 months I immediately hopped on, played a few hours, killed some people who were clearly new players from PS2 (they didn't know they had to actually equip armor) reminisced, saw every notable outfit was dead, and logged off.

As for this point you keep pestering me on, I'm pretty sure I did. Mods may have removed it. I'll expand on it. You keep saying "I don't pay attention." I do. However, no one is 100% focused 100% of the time. Sometimes my attention and the gunner attention is drawn elsewhere, like the vanguard bearing down on me, trying to maneuver away from AV turrets shooting 9 million miles, avoiding running over friendlies that I'm trying to support, lots of things. No one is perfect. No pair of people are perfect. Sometimes those C4 guys are going to get through. Why shouldn't I be able to make a trade off from frontal armor to C4 defense if I know going to be fighting in cramped quarters for those oh crap moments? People can run mine guard if they really want to and a pair of those cost almost as much.

Conversely, why do you feel C4 should be good against everything? Why should it inflict non directional damage? Why shouldn't it have some kind of indicator that its been tossed? Why shouldn't people be able to make slot sacrifices to defend against the damage? Resources aren't the issue, as mine guard is in the game. Flak armor stops prox mines that cost 75 a pop and only kill infantry. Why is C4 supposed to be "special?"

And why shouldn't they have an option that sacrifices a defense slot so you can't punish them by yourself?

Hmm, seems like if the playstyle of PS1 was so good that there would be more people playing it.

You literally just said that you shouldn't be punished for the times you're not paying attention. That in the time when you're not paying attention you shouldn't be able to be killed even though you're not paying attention. That's not addressing WHY you think you shouldn't be punished, you're just saying that you shouldn't be. It's exactly those times you're not paying attention that people people should be able to kill you. That's how it's supposed to be or you'd be an unstoppable killing machine that laughs at all infantry except that mana turret 4 hexes away. I could understand having a defense slot against the damage of c4 if I could load it on a dart and shoot you from 100m. But I can't.

I feel C4 should be "good" against everything because it's so easy to counter and has such a short range. I feel it shouldn't have directional damage because it would be worse, and the game would be ruined by tank zergs (again). It shouldn't have an indicator because it needs to be placed from ranges where you can detect the people placing it. People can make a slot sacrifice to defend against the C4, just not a hard counter. If there was a hard counter to C4's damage tanks wouldn't be balanced. Imagine how easy a tank would be to play if you didn't have to worry much about your positioning. Imagine how broken they would be. BTW a pair of tank mines costs 150 (75% of C4) and don't need to be manually set off. Prox mines don't need to be manually detonated. Get better at this game. Think before you post (x2).

Now, again, address WHY you shouldn't be able to be punished for not paying attentions. Don't give me excuses about why you're not paying attention. Like you said, sometimes, not all the time, those LAs get through. You should die when they do.

Because tanks wouldn't be balanced. Why do you think they're not in the game already? Especially because it's not like they forgot about C4 resistance defense slots. 3 other vehicles already have them.

Edit: 3 others had them. They were deemed too good on the harasser. For the same reason they'd be too good on tanks.

My usual driver and I parked our Vanguard on an open road once. That was over at Allatum. It just so happened that the Bio lab jump pad took its arc right over our tank.

One respawn later, we learned never to do that again. We also learned never to park under a ledge for extended periods of time.

But wait, C4 needs nerf nao! It so OP, kills me when I AFK. D:<

Ha ha, now that is some C4ing skills to do it while jump padding.

Why aren't more people playing PS1? Because SOE stopped supporting it. Because its graphics are 11 years old in a 3d game and extremely dated. This game is called PLANETSIDE. Its not unreasonable for us who actually bought the game way back in 2003 and paid a monthly fee for long periods of time to expect it to be more like the first game with improved graphics, ui, and other features. Some of us older players that remember feel like you new COD generation guys ran away with our game for the worse.

Like I said, no crew can be 100% focused 360 degrees. There is a difference between "not paying attention" and "distracted by multiple potential threats." You don't seem to get this distinction.You also really like to use insults and trying to force statements on to people. Stop doing this. It makes your argument look weak and pathetic.

Address this. Why should you be able to "punish" someone in game, by YOURSELF, in a TEAM ORIENTED MMO. Heavy assault, other tanks, even AV turrets generally have to work together. YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL. Having a top defense slot that protects against C4 from 1 guy but makes sure I have to jump and repair is fair. Two light assaults coordinating and working in tandem and gibbing me? Fine. Let me repeat. YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL. The resource argument people keep throwing out? Other people use them too, and they aren't hard to manage.

It is absolutely laughable to suggest tanks wouldn't be balanced without C4. How about other tanks? Other vehicles? Airpower? Coordinated HA? Not having to worry about positioning from those threats? Only you and your kin can turn the tide? Oh my god, please check your ego LA hero.

Why don't you give us some full disclosure here about your own stats? How many C4 kills to you have? Vehicle kills? How much time do you play LA? How much time do you spend lone wolfing? I already said 24d and change on my main character and LA is by far and away my least played class.

I don't care about PS1, lets agree that it really has no point in this discussion of PS2 because they're completely different games.

My main two chars:
https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/5428013610486604849
https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/5428082731016510065

I basically quit NC once my outfit fell apart. I don't lone wolf. Which is why I don't have a problem with C4. The Vanu is the one I play now and look at it's LA%. I knew without you telling me that LA was by far and away your least played class because of the arguments you've been bringing.

I'm not putting statements on you. You're saying you shouldn't be able to be punished by a guy with c4 who sneaks up on you. Come on, if you've been playing since beta, you know what happens when tanks are too strong in this game.

Needing 2 people with C4 means you've got almost double the chance of exposure. Fewer tanks dieing means more tanks on the field for longer having more impact on the battlefield. If you nerfed C4 you'd need to go back to one clip podding tanks or some other such removal. Or completely revamp how you get tanks, which would need to revamp a lot of other mechanics. Killing tanks with C4 is only part of the tank removal equation, but don't get me wrong, it's an important part.

I don't really care about the resource argument. I only countered the arguments made in that vein.

I get that you're trying to make a distinction between not paying attention and getting distracted, but there isn't really one. That distraction is teamwork to make you not pay attention to your surroundings. Tankers who live a long time don't get distracted by those things or aren't in places where they can be C4d.

Edit: Btw my most used tank on the vanu is a skyguard. Almost the quintessential "C4 me because I'm not paying attention" tank. Most of the deaths in that thing are from C4.

I agree, as someone who abused HEAT last year, as a Prowler no less, it was severely overpowered. I could fire randomly into bases and get kills from the splash. I wouldn't really dream of running with HE since it means you've all but given up fighting other vehicles even with a good secondary and competent gunner. Even with HEAT or AP I'm outclassed in a 1 on 1 tank fight by both Vanguard and Magrider. Anchor is a death sentence in any situation where you aren't at extreme range shelling a base, both in regards to LA and other vehicles having a much easier time hitting you because you aren't moving which is where part of my LA C4 rage comes from. I get killed as other classes by tank shells too, not by splash much anymore but with direct hits. Its a helpless feeling at range as infantry with no cover. I'd like it if the game had more cover but I think the issue with SOE implementing that here as opposed to PS1 is the sheer PC crippling graphics intensity. If infantry had more cover, like the actual forests the old game had that were deathtraps to tanks I don't think they'd find vehicles nearly as much a problem.

I still don't think having a C4 defense slot makes tanks suddenly more OP. It could leave the vehicle HUD flashing, smoking, maybe even on fire even with the defense. Just not an outright kill from 1 person in such a short time from initial attack on a vehicle. Part of the issue is we have entirely different metrics. For you the Light Assault 3 seconds is a significant amount of time. In vehicle on vehicle combat it isn't nearly as much in most situations. Using such a slot leaves the vehicle more vulnerable to everything else without the HP buff from front/side armor and at least as a Prowler you're already extremely fragile. 2 Vanguard AP hits is more than enough to have me running for cover. I'd prefer more teamplay oriented gaming, with target calling and the like. You could actually gib a tank faster and more efficiently that way and no one has to be pissed they were sent on a suicide mission potentially wasting resources.

Do you know when I die to C4? Not when I'm mindlessly shelling infantry at a distance which is what you hate. Its when I'm pushing forward with the infantry and supporting them. You'd think a horde of infantry around you would make you more immune, but you'd be surprised. All it does is make for massive friendly fire incidents or a dead tank because as much as you say I don't pay attention, most people don't pay attention at all.

Thanks for not using the "bad player" insult this time around. You also didn't need to link to the characters, just give me a general idea of what you played and how many kills. I hate that idea that suddenly someone making a point becomes invalid because another poster comes along and trashes everything based on k/d or SPM. Just for full disclosure, I only have 75h logged in MBTs in that 24d9h as TR.