So, I have come to the point in my engineer's career where I think I'll be supporting infiltrators in my squad at range. While I could use my GaussS Compact with a grip and HV ammo, I think a weapon more fitted to the engagement range would be appropriate. While I could use all three weapons and kit them fully in the VR, they would not be the same as in real combat, and while I can trial them all in real combat, they would then lack the appropriate kitting. From my understanding, there are three different weapons at my disposal: -AC-X11 (the first real contender for long range combat.) Pros: Holy thud gun, Batman! This gun hits like a truck. And the damage falloff isn't bad, either. Plus I can get a 6x scope on this for extreme ranges. In addition, my LA would get the weapon, and I'm a pretty big fan of my LA, and that lacks a long range gun. Cons: Not digging that 20-shot clip, and the bullet velocity leaves something to be desired for a long range weapon. Also, the recoil is kinda high. -Razor GD-23 (I do like my heavy's GD-22... Will Genuine Dynamics be able to reproduce that gun's awesomeness in a carbine form?) Pros: Decent bullet velocity, damage isn't bad, but not as impressive as the AC. Recoil is super easy to control. Also, dat short reload.... mmmm.... Also, my LA gets this gun, and that could use a long range gun. Cons: Damage is sub-par, so I would be plinking targets and alerting them to where I was before I could reasonably kill them. Also, I can only get up to a x4 scope, limiting my effective range. -Warden (Maybe a sniper rifle's little brother is in order? Pros: 250 damage at max, 200 damage at min. And I thought the AC-X11 hit hard. 6x scope is nice. Very, VERY accurate. Cons: 20 shot clip, and it's only semi-auto (which is sort of a boon with such a small clip). The bullet velocity is slightly higher than the AC-X11's, but not a lot better. Also, this gun is shared with my heavy, and it doesn't need a dedicated long range weapon. So, forums, I put it to you: what are you thoughts on which I should get?
Well, i dont know about the others but the warden is AWFUL. It takes something like 6 body shots to kill, has very low muzzle velocity and is generally a complete waste of certs. For me at least. That said i do normally play as Infil baring EM4 Longshot.
I prefer the razor as a "sniping" carbine. I typically run a 3.4x scope, HV ammo, comp and fore grip. Since I ads pretty much all the time, the hip fire reduction isn't noticed. I keep trying the warden but have little success. Like many have stated, primarily due to low velocity ( I main inf fo its a huge difference and I can't adjust to it). I've never used the AC so I can't comment but many other swear by it
I guess it really depends on what range you're going for but IME the choice is really down to the Warden or AC-X11. In your case I think I'd go with the AC-X11 tho. It's a better weapon all-around and you can use it on your LA too. IME the AC-X11 wins hands down out to about 80m since it's accurate enough to just hold down the fire button until your target is dead so it'll kill faster. And its more accurate past 125m due to its 0 ADS CoF and adv foregrip compared to the much larger ADS CoF on the Warden (.1) which at this range will cause you to start missing perfectly lined up shots.. From 80-125m they're about the same tho since you have to start burst firing with the AC-X11 so its TTK advantage disappears and the Warden is still accurate enough to remain competitive. One other thing, using the 6x scope on the Warden can be a bit awkward due to sway because of its semi-auto nature and the "hold breath" mechanic often doesn't last long enough to fire enough shots for a kill. Automatic weapons OTOH seem to almost self-correct the sway during burst fire so you usually don't need to hold your breath at all when using the 6x with the AC-X11.
Razors are great for mid to long range battles but decent in CqC for those OH SH** moments. AC X11's are great for longer ranges but fail at close range for their slow ROF and their mini ammo clip. The warden is awesome fun but not the best weapon by far. The semi auto holds it back, but it delivers solid long range performance. IMO it needs a buff along with the other guns.
If Razor is anything like T5 AMC - and looking from the stats it is - then definitely choose it. High bullet velocity is super important for those longer ranges. Other two option may, perhaps, after a long adjustment period, would more effective at maximum range, but they also put you in a bigger disadvantage at close ranges than Razor. And forget about 6x. What's the point of having a view angle twice smaller than your COF? (exaggerating a bit here).
What about a shotgun with slug ammo? Seems to perform decently in the VR, haven't bought it for everyday use yet tho.
Personally it's the Razor GD-23 for me, it doesn't have the highest Damage per Second or Damage per Bullet, but it's fast bullet velocity, low recoil and fast reload make it a beast on almost any range out side of the most extreme ones. The AC-X11 only seems to work for me on very specific ranges and although it's damage is great the low bullet velocity and high recoil per shot makes it just to unwieldy at those long ranges. The Warden just doesn't have any short/medium range capabilities and although it outshine both other at extreme ranges I just don't find myself fighting at those ranges for the most time anyway.
Of all the carbines, the Razor, hands down. The AC-X11 is not an long range carbine; it is designed to excel at medium ranges. The AC-X11, due to it's slow bullet velocity, high recoil and small clip, will perform much worse when trying to land enough shots to actually kill someone at range. Between 15 and 45 metres, the Mercenary, Razor and Gauss variants take 7 shots to drop a target (excluding nanoweave); the AC-X11 takes 6. Except you will land the 7 shots much more quickly with the Razor (or even the Mercenary or Gauss variants). The Razor takes high velocity ammo and its recoil is easily manageable with some attachements. I love the AC-X11 (it was the first weapon I got Auraxium with) but I've come to enjoy the Razor and Mercenary much more.
Generally speaking, weapons that fire slower than others in their damage class do well as ranged options. The Razor is to the Mercenary what the AMC is to almost all other TR carbines. Fires slower, but that helps in recoil control. You aren't going to be landing all your shots at range full auto anyways, so that's that. The Mercenary is still very good though.
My experience playing NC is admittedly somewhat limited but what you say doesn’t make sense to me. It seems that the Razer and AC-X11 are both long range weapons, just with different approaches. Both appear to be plenty accurate out to 150m or so, but with the AC-X11 you just need to use rapid tap-firing and/or shorter bursts than what you’d use with the Razor. It has an ADS CoF of 0 - one of only three non-sniper weapons in the game that are pinpoint accurate on the first shot (along with the SAW and Reaper DMR) Its Horizontal recoil is 0.175/0.2. Of the carbines, only the Burst variants, the Pulsar C, and the Merc have tighter H.recoils (all .175/.175). It's even tighter than the Razor (.1875/.1875). And unlike vertical recoil, horizontal can’t really be countered with skill except through burst fire Long range encounters favor its high damage per shot (200 max, 143 min) more than full-auto DPS/TTK due to the increased need for burst fire and semi-auto shots to retain accuracy as range increases It’s the only NC carbine w access to the Adv Foregrip making its low Horizontal recoil even tighter, and it can get the Compensator, 6x scope and HV Ammo as well. All carbines in the game except the Razor and T5 AMC have muzzle velocities of 515m/s or less, including the Pulsar C, which certainly is a long range weapon. All that means is slightly longer lead times when firing on a moving target, which is easy to compensate for with skill/experience High vertical recoil per shot is mitigated by its lower ROF so its recoil over time is not much different than the Razor (225 vs 192.5) and is lower than many other long range automatics (like the Pulsar C, and all long range LMGs but the Ursa which is 220). You can equip a compensator to further reduce the V.recoil, and anything else can be overcome with skill High ADS CoF bloom per shot is also mitigated by its slow RoF so its bloom over time is not much different than the Razer (.583 degrees(?) per second vs the Razer's .55) The small mag sucks for CQC, but you generally only have to engage one enemy at a time at long range and you can duck behind cover during reloads From what I've seen the AC-X11 shines the most as a medium range weapon. But it looks like it also has most of the base stats and all of the attachments you need to be good at long range as well. Its only downsides for long range combat are it slow muzzle velocity and high vertical recoil, both of which can be countered with skill. My limited combat experience with it so far seems to support this position as well. So what am I missing here?
Everything you mentioned is true but I think if you play with the Razor and AC-X11, you will find the Razor is vastly superior at range in-game. I personally think the compounding effect of the balance aspects of the AC-X11 are not visible until you play with it; it looks far better on paper than it is in reality. The high recoil + slow rate of fire + slow bullet speed + small magazine really handicap the AC-X11's performance at range. Burst fire doesn't work well due to the recoil and at ranges past 60 or 70 metres, tap-firing will give a target too much time to move to cover and (assuming your target isn't an idiot and dodges effectively) the slow bullet speed really impacts your ability to land some shots. The time to kill at range is made even worse by the small magazine size on the AC-X11 which punishes you for missed shots, forcing you to reload more often. Compare that to the Razor. It also takes HVA and with the forward grip and compensator is able to consistently land bursts on target at the same ranges. At 70 metres the AC-X11 takes 7 shots to drop a target (without nanoweave); the Razor takes 8. I guarantee you, if you are able to kill people at range with the AC-X11, you will absolutely shine with the Razor. You will also find that you will land the 8 shots with the Razor much more consistently and more quickly than you will with the AC-X11. Faster bullets, less recoil, bigger magazine, faster reload and more manageable bursts make the Razor, by far, the better long range weapon. I don't believe the AC-X11 is meant as a long range weapon at all. The HVA makes the AC-X11 more effective in the 50 to 70 metre range but given its performance, compared to the Razor, I don't see it as a viable choice at range. The AC-X11 absolutely shines at 20 to 70 metres, but that's about it.
Razor, much like the T5 AMC, has all the right stats for a mid/long range weapon. Consistency is key at range, and you are, more than likely, going hit a lot more bullet with the Razor than AC-X11.
This is absolutely true (for me anyway), no matter the strengths and weaknesses of the Razor vs AC-X11 on paper, in-game the Razor always seems to land more damage (which is what counts).
In my experience, the reload speed is what takes the Razor from an average gun to a great gun. If you miss at range (which isn't unusual), you can top off to a full mag before the target gets to cover. Ditto for short range fights against multiple enemies where you can break line of sight for a second or two..
Gauss Compact S and never look back ( UBGL just awesome) U want longest range then just use AV turret
GD-23 with HVA ammo, no doubt. Fast base velocity. Even better with HVA. Slow bullet velocity (and the 2 tier damage drop off) are carbines' big weaknesses for engaging at range. GD-23's fast velocity lets you land more shots, aided by: Biased recoil, easy to control. That fast reload. Yes, it's nice. Not great in CQC, but pretty servicable. On my LA I use it with laser and iron sights. Decent hipfire accuracy imo. On engineer I run 2x scope.
AV turret is good enough for sniping. Warden is good at long range, but imho not good good enough to overlook it's flaws on every other range. I now use Gauss Compact S with a\b sgootgun, for close range, and snipe people with AV turret. Though, i never used Razor, so may be it's better.
