Auxiliary Shield & Ambushing Changes.

There is a new toy on the (PTS) Public Test Server called ...

·Auxiliary Shield (Utility slot item)
oPassively increases shield health by 50 when equipped.

Keep in mind this could change before it hits the Live Servers but I sincerely doubt it will. I strongly feel we can adapt, however we need a post to show just how drastically these changes will affect ambushing. Auxy Shield Sounds innocent enough.... I do not doubt in future we will have anti-ambushing loadouts being worn by our enemies. Anyway the first question I had when seeing this change was....

How will Auxy affect NS sidearms ability to OHK infils to the head?

Crossbows: 650 dmg ( 975 dmg HSO) means that it will still kill Auxy Infils (950 total HP) reliably
Commy: 450 dmg (900 dmg HSO) will no longer work on Auxy Infils.
UBoss: 375 dmg (750 dmg HSO) Never worked in this manner, and certainly won't now.

Auxy Shield will protect you from being executed in a single NS Revolver head-shots, with exception of the Crossbow.




Now I honestly do not suspect many perfectly seasoned and salty vets will trade in their mines, C4 or medkits for the Auxy Shield. However it is nice to know what the 50 extra shield damage actually means form our perspectives.


Neat... What about other classes using auxiliary shield?

So lets investigate a juicy Medic with 1050 hp running Auxy. (No Nanoweave)

Already we spot a weakness for Auxy because if we were to EMP the medic, he looses his shield, including all the benefits of Auxy straight away.

Crossbows : Double Body Shot kills the Auxy Medic = NO CHANGE
Commy : Needs either HSO + Body Shot, or just three Body Shots. = NO CHANGE
Uboss: Needs either HSO + Body Shot, or just three Body Shots. = NO CHANGE.

So clearly. Auxy really has no meaningful benefit alone to the other classes. However the main question we must ask ourselves in this situation is how does Nanoweave and Auxy stack up. If our target is using Auxy they will probably be running Nanoweave because it just makes sense. Why spec for durability and neglect the suit slot made for that purpose.

Other Classes using Nanoweave & Auxy:

Crossbow body shot becomes 520 dmg = Double Body shot becomes 1040 (Medic = Alive @ 10 HP)
Crossbow HSO (975 dmg) +520 dmg Body Shot = 1495 (Medic =Dead @ 445 overkill)
Commy: body shot becomes 360 dmg = Triple Body shot becomes 1080 (Medic = Dead @ 30 Overkill)
Commy HSO (900 dmg) + Body shot = 1260 (Medic = Dead @ 210 Overkill)
Uboss: body shot becomes 300 dmg = Triple Body shot becomes 900 (Medic = Alive @ 150 HP)
Uboss: HSO (750 dmg) + Body shot = 1050 (Medic = Dead with ZERO overkill)

Many different outcomes appear now. The best situation in all cases becomes a headshot opener and then a follow up body shot. The Underboss really takes a hit in terms of reliability becoming a 4 body shot kill, and just squeaking by with a HSO and body shot follow up with absolutely no overkill meaning you would have to be in the weapons ideal range with no margin for error. In contrast the Commy becomes vastly superior since it is much more reliable.


Quick Knife Antics Vs Auxy and Nanoweave:

Crossbow : 975 dmg HSO +500 dmg quick knife = 1475 (Medic = Dead @ 425 overkill.)
Crossbow : 520 dmg body shot + 500 dmg quick knife = 1020 (Medic = Alive @ 30 HP)
Commy : 900 dmg HSO + 500 dmg quick knife = 1400 (Medic = Dead @ 350 overkill.)
Uboss : 750 dmg HSO + 500 dmg Quick Knife = 1275 (Medic = Dead @ 200 overkill.)

So again crossbow body shot knife becomes inconsistent when an enemy uses Nanoweave & Auxy. This actually makes them a little bit more difficult to ambush. Gives them a bit of time to react but in all honestly probably won't save them. The reason I say this is because in most cases your able to bolt + Knife almost instantly and then follow up very quickly with either another bolt or quick knife before human reaction time kicks in. The difference will most likely be that a crossbow user comes out of the engagement injured instead of completely unscathed. A similar experience to when we had the fire to decloak mechanics messing up our ambushes. I do like the subtle shift to encourage crossbow users to go for a headshot opener when it presents itself just to avoid the potential for Auxy Shenanigans.

What about the "Dreaded" NMG NANO HEAVYXIES? (1500 hp heavies)

Crossbow : HSO (975) + 500 dmg quick knife = 1475 ( Heavy = Alive @ 25 HP)
Crossbow HSO (975) + 520 body shot = 1495 ( Heavy = Alive @ 5 HP)
Commy : HSO (900) + 500 dmg quick knife = 1400 ( Heavy = Alive @ 100 HP)
Uboss : HSO (750) + 500 dmg Quick Knife = 1275 ( Heavy = Alive @ 250 HP)

This is not fun... this very not fun. We will have to do extra things to kill the HEAVYXIES.

What about EMP openers against the HEAVYXIES?

EMP becomes ideal since it removes 550 HP straight away, NMG heavy with maximum HP of 950 HP when factoring in their glowyness. Keep in mind striping the regular player shield is more lucrative then having everything ride on attacking the heavy before NMG comes up because the player shield is 550, and NMG is only 450. So if you had to prioritize which weakness to exploit it would be removing the player shield. Hopefully quickly of course before they can react so you also don't need to deal with NMG. In which case EMP fits the bill for both desires but you can only bank on taking one single shot before NMG comes up.

Activated HEAVYX (950 HP) under the affects of EMP Grenade:

Crossbow: HSO ( 975 dmg) = 975 (Heavy = Dead @ 25 overkill)
Commy: HSO = (900 dmg) = 900 (Heavy = Alive @ 50 HP )
Uboss: HSO = (750 dmg) = 750 (Heavy = Alive @ 200 HP)

NON Activated HEAVYX (500 HP) under the affects of EMP Grenade:

Crossbow: HSO (975) = 975 (Heavy = Dead @ 475 overkill)
Crossbow: Body (520) = 529 (Heavy = Dead @ 20 overkill)
Commy: HSO (900) = 900 (Heavy = Dead @ 400 overkill)
Commy: Body (360) = 360 (Heavy = Alive @ 140 HP)
UBoss: HSO (750) = 750 (Heavy = Dead @ 250 overkill)
Uboss : Body (300) = 300 (Heavy = Alive @ 200 HP)

So this also represents a shift in the meta regarding EMP openers. Crossbow is going to be rewarded more for having an EMP opener against Heavies simply because its body shot damage can punch through nanoweave and kill them outright (520 dmg) when they are not glowing yet. The body shot damage of the Commy (360) and UBOSS (300) comes up short. This means revolvers require headshots or take more bullets and time to kill after and EMP. This gives the HeavyX time to put up their shield.

Since you cannot punch though Nanoweave without landing a headshot the Commy and UBOSS will favor straight up HSO instead of EMP openers. Essentially Headshots against HeavyX becomes mandatory for ambushing them cleanly.

TLDR: Headshots.... Headshots... Headshots... Even for crossbows when you can swing it.

I'm not going to go into the specifics for faster firing, lower damage weapons, since this post is focused on ambushing specifically. Suffice to say Auxiliary Shield will most likely have a meaningful effect on your favorite weapons time to kill and you might want to double check your shots to kill HEAVYXIES under the worst circumstances so you can get an idea how the meta will shift when the patch hits.

~Cheers

Thanks for the theory crafting <3
Oh and be aware, that new Players, will have NW5 granted on their havy, so nw + auxillary will be seen quite often on low br players.

All players will have access to the HeavyX combo. It will also be slots 1. 2. on the loadout and probably be used frequently by non main Heavies.This is going to be an interesting shift backwards for Stalkers. We did it in the past we can do it again, but it won't be sunshine and rainbows.

Since there is no way of testing for Heavyxies prior to an ambush, or other classes using the combo, we just have to assume everyone is using it and plan accordingly. I am not thrilled about the prospects of the crossbow being asked to perform headshots given its projectile speed. Nor am I thrilled about the idea of 3 hit body shot kills being a thing even against medics / engineers / light assaults running Auxy and Nanoweave. Stuff like that is going to push the crossbow further away from ranged work... or demand we run enhanced targeting implant when used for that purpose.

It never ceases to amaze how such an innocent change can have such drastic effects on how stalkers operate. I don't think this will be super widespread at first. It just depends on how other classes adapt to the changes as well. If other weapons also result in more shots to take down a target running Nano + Auxy then we could very well see Nanoweave become much more mainstream again. I would imagine they will be running regeneration implants in order to keep sustained. At the very least if you get sloppy ambushes in the future using these weapons at least you will know why it happens.

For me at least, I plan on disengaging after taking down heavies routinely, since its going to be pretty much determined I will be injured to some extent after taking one down. That constant subjection to injury will further impact a stalkers longevity and risk over time. We will have to plan for those changes as well in how we behave and move around.

PS: When I said "Punch Through Nanoweave" I simply meant do enough damage (500+) to kill them without their player shield or NMG on. The only thing protecting the enemy is Nanoweave. Anything less then 500 dmg won't kill the target. Because the crossbow does 520 damage (after Nanoweave reductions ) the suit slot simply doesn't protect enough matter in that scenario against a high damage crossbow. High damage shots are still affected by Nanoweave. Just in that case it doesn't matter because the damage is so high it kills the heavy anyway. Only headshots bypass Nanoweave.

Actually the change seems small, but a lot of weapons balanced on that 1000 hp to damage model. Like the rebel, 250 max damage within 15 meters, its a popular stalker infil weapon because its semi long range, 2 headshot kill, but 50 hp turns it to 3 shot kill, thats drastic. Shadow, 334 damage etc same thing, look around, a LOT of weapons balanced on the 1000 hp model

this, low fire rate weapons, will suffer from this.

Just got an idea, when you use the explosiv bolts on the crossbow, would the splash damage help to finish the target?

Explosive doesn't do any extra damage. It just takes a small portion and converts it to an AOE and changes the overall damage type. Its okay, I figure we can manage. Faster rate of fire weapons won't have as much riding on this change so it will be a good time to try new things while the Devs sort it out. Only the HeavyX's I wager might cause problems. With a crossbow at least your going to walk away injured since your ambush will most likely take too long. To which we do have solutions the EMP, a mine, HSO ect. Kinda like going back in time to the 1700 HP heavy days.

I've been out of touch with the game/community for a little while, but I can't help wondering what the driving force was for introducing this Auxiliary Shield device. Just seems a little odd at this point to suddenly give us an extra bit of hit points. Have people been complaining about dying even more than usual?

I was of the understanding Planetside 2 infantry TTKs were far from the fastest, in comparison to other, more well-known, shooters.

Anyways, I am partial to a bit of crossbow-stalking myself, so this is some good stuff to take into consideration. Thanks for sharing.

this aux shield is comming within a package to close the gear gap between vets and new players.
This shield is suposed to balance the odds between vets (who propaly use explosivs or medkits in that slot) and new players, who struggel to win a single gunfight.

Also the Infils survive the Blackhand

If that's coming from who I think it is, then that short cartoon strip on Dasanfall's site suddenly makes sense.

So I just checked out Wrels recent video on Player Frustration.



Essentially what I took away from the video (Reading between the lines) was Daybreak is trying to figure out ways to make PS2 less irritating to newer players. Now unfortunately for some of us... This means changing the stalker meta. Ambushing is probably a very frustrating way to be killed as a new player. Right up there with being sniped except we are up close and personal and so the newbie tends to see their killer. (Which does help mitigate their sense of helplessness a bit - still not enough to stop hate tells though.)

Anyway... WE ALL KNOW - Ambushing isn't easy. PLAYERBASE? Not so much. Taking down a BR100+ Heavy who is displaying MLG grade paranoia is far from easy. However you have to factor in our easiest ambushes are also people who are super new. They don't move, they don't look around and so your going to have a few low BR ambushes over the course of your gameplay just based on targets of opportunity. From a game balance perspective, it appears this is an intentional change. That BR100 Heavy is probably going to keep running medkits, and not be affected by Auxy. In contrast the BR 10 Heavy is going to be a little more durable. DBG is raising the bar for us in terms of skill in taking down these lower level players. I don't feel animosity towards this concept at all. Daybreak is also dangling a mathematical ambushing carrot for us. They are adding incentive to use a Headshot Opener and be rewarded with consistent executions.

So Yes, Daybreak will be increasing the amount of skill required to be a Stalker who ambushes. Your going to have to read your targets a bit better before opening on them. Determine if they are MLG or noob and behave accordingly. Or just perform more HSO then you would normally. Eventually when the other vets figure out how much Auxy can mess with our ambushes you might get a few folks running loadouts to troll us. However they would be giving up utility to do so, and it would not work against a stalker who uses HSO primarily out of good habbit.

We are just going to have to adapt to these changes. They appear to be designed to improve the overall well being the game. So - while it will sucks that we have to to go through a re-learning process, and ditch previous habits. I think we should do it and try to adapt without causing much fuss. Our community has been pretty good about adapting to changes in the past. Including undocumented ones and bugs. I think we can handle this one.

As a side bonus: Infils benefit the most from having Auxy alone. It protects us from those super annoying 1 shot executions with very popular sidearms. Thats going to make gameplay a little harder for other classes too. They won't be able to just single shot people enemy infils down any longer. (Unless they have a crossbow handy) That helps with some flexibility on our parts loadout wise.

Anyway the point of the thread was : TTK is changing and I think its better to discuss and plan for it ahead of time. Instead of being caught off guard and getting completely blindsided. This appears to be step #1 towards a re-balance regarding reducing new player frustration. It will be interesting to see if "Deathstreaks" ( which were discussed in the video ) get added in future.

So you admit that Daybreak is doing it to prevent people like you from making people leave the game (which is partly true), and your answer to that is: It's ok, I'll keep on doing it even if it's harder? I don't see the point there... You're not helping the game much. It's an arms race, every time they'll figure out something like this to help new players, you will think about how to negate it?
It's as if pilots were posting their best loadouts to farm clueless infantry. Why would you keep playing like this (honest question there) when you admit that you think that the game editor tries to prevent you from doing so?

Anyway you seem to be a good guy, none of your tactics rely on claymores, so it means you value skill.

This affects all vets. Anyone decent at their class and who has killed new players routinely is partially to blame for forcing this change. It affects all weapons in the game, ALL classes. ALL play-styles. If anything the multitude of Heavies with Rocket Primarys should be scolded. (Joking ) Please try to have a wider view of the issue at hand.

These changes affect Ambushing most significantly. Not because Stalkers are being punished, only because of the reliance we have on higher alpha damage weapons that have a lower rate of fire. Purely coincidence based on how the math works out. How will this affect a HA? Just shoot more bullets? Same exact tactics will be used. Hardly anyone is going to notice that one extra shot when using an LMG. Same deal with LA's and carbines. The rate of fire on those weapons will make this change laughable. In Contrast a Stalker with a Crossbow, Blackhand, UBOSS is going to be much more sensitive to changes that affect TTK. Having a time to kill jump from 2 crossbow bolts to three on someone running Auxy and Nanoweave is huge. You can't honestly even joke that isn't significant enough not to report on the forums.

If your seriously - honestly - suggesting a stalker with a crossbow is to blame for hordes of new players leaving PS2 your out to lunch. I inhabit the space which exists by design. I make use of tools, knives, and secondary weapons to their fullest. If there is a problem with "Ambushing" Daybreak will fix it. However as it stands Stalkers do not do any "less damage". None of our weapons have been nerfed. In fact we Stalkers have received buff, after buff, over the last year and a half.

Stow the hate. Realize your attacking someone who has done nothing but help the weakest class of players in the game become more proficient. I am simply saying guys - we need to shoulder this burden because its better for the game to give these new players slightly better odds. You weapons will still work for ambushing but you need to open with Headshots or you run the risk of having inconsistent results. I like the change because eventually after playing stalker for a while, you get to a point where sneaking up on people gets old. Now you also will be encouraged to open with headshots. More skill based incentives are not a bad thing.

Pretty much. DBG would have to decrease the effectiveness of something deliberately. I think your misreading a new option (having more health - at the expense of lacking ultility items) as a nerf to stalkers. So no I don't hold back or limit myself. If an option exists, and I can make something work within the constructs of the game. I will do so - no apologies. We should not be asked to limit our creativity because others don't approve. If something is broken or out of line DBG will adjust it.

Also seriously consider the implications of what you accuse. And what doing so says about you.

I am simply reporting on the changes on the PTS. I didn't fabricate the numbers. Headshot Openers are possible ways to get around Auxy + Nanoweave. That truth is not my fault in any way imaginable. This HSO strategy is the game and designers doing. Attacking someone for reporting on that... Well thats kinda like shooting the weather lady... because she told you it would rain.



Ex: Umbrellas are OP ! How dare you suggest I bring one today! Your ruining weather!

Beaver, you killed me, this is ridiculus sweet.
Anyways back on topic:
I totaly agree, there is now flaw in doing some theory crafting.
This Min-maxing will always happen, and i'm glad, that you've shared your results with the comunity.

Auxiliary shield: stealth nerf to sniper rifle semi autos due to the fact they're getting that huge accuracy buff from that box thing they strapped to the side of it.

Well I wasn't attacking you, but the fact that you say on one hand that getting killed by a stalker must be particularly annoying (more than getting killed by a HA or LA) and on the other you still encourage people to practice it by giving them advice on "how to kill noobs". I get that there's more to your post than that, trust me, but you're not the weather man, you're the guy that when the governement says that there's a new tax for some reason, is giving shady advice on tv on how to "optimize" what you're paying. Sure it's sound, but one can ask if that's really what the governement intended to do, do you see my point?
Of course DBG can still directly nerf stalkers if they want to, and they won't, because you're not so much of a nuisance, but from outside, you look like the guy I described earlier. Hence my reaction. To be honest, when I saw what DBG was doing with HE weapons, I just stopped using them altogether for example, because it seemed to me that they wanted to remove them altogether and could not because of people buying them. And I would have gone after any guy claiming to have found a way to "optimize" infantry shelling.

What got me into answering to your post was the fact that you said "only noobs and high level trolls will use this new item" and that you proceded on how to negate its effect. So you were either giving advice on how to kill "trolls", or how to kill noobs. And there's much more noobs in the game than this kind of troll, and noobs are far more important to the game than killing trolls is.
I hope you understand that I wasn't attacking you, but what you said struck me and I had to answer.

The level of frustration comes the same principle as being sniped. Enemies don't see an Ambush coming and they act out afterwards. Stalkers tend to also get a lot of ego injured responses as well.... given.... we have less health and only have secondary weapon. Being Ambushed by a stalker is inflammatory for reasons that exist in the minds of our opponents.

There is nothing inherently wrong with Ambushing (although I think your good on this point) just as there is nothing inherently wrong with Sniping. Its a valid play style which was, and still will be supported by harder hitting secondary weapons after the changes. With regards to my description of who will be using Auxy + Nano: I'm calling a spade a spade. New players will by default have access to Auxy Shield. In the case of Heavies, they will default with Auxy and Nanoweave. One could argue I have made life slightly harder for stalkers by calling attention to the fact Auxy + Nanoweave (even on regular infantry classes) will cause issues for certain popular stalking loadouts too.

• Just so you know... I have received hate mail for exposing that liability.
• I have received hate mail for NOT going onto Reddit and whining and ******** about the changes on a more public platform.
• I have received hate mail for asking people on this thread to adapt
• For supporting HSO openers and quote -"Watching my own playstyle with knives burn to the ground"
• I have received angry text wall expressing how a person believed knifing wasn't being valued.
• How stalker downtime would increase between kills due to the fact we would become injured more often + time to heal
• Finally a very well worded response on how the added time to kill would make us more obvious during flanks/ambushing...
• and of course a few Salty ones reg: TTK on a couple weapon loadouts... (Xbow, UBOSS, Blackhand mostly.)

Most concerned inbox goodies (reddit, twitter, steam, forums) are logicaly worded responses, or angry passionate mails. Not much in between. Stalkers are like frogs in a pond. Squishy, and we croak easy. Especially so if change is unexpected.




I made a post asking people to adapt. ( Masochistically optimistically as one salty stalker infil jokingly described it.) Giving advanced warning that their tactics would experience shifts soon. I chose to write this topic rather then letting the change turn into a painful surprise on patch day. Stalking is my primary play-style and this change will affect me personally. Discussing something you have intimate knowledge about should not be shamed. I would never ask someone to drop Planetside 2 and stop doing what they enjoy. Or maintain a veil of ignorance to benefit one party or another. Which is kinda what your implying I do... since I pretty much crossbow primary. (Not taunting you, I am just giving perspective on your perspective? Ouch brain exploding) Anyway even with all the interesting constructive responses I have received over the past couple weeks and flurry of emotional and sometimes entertaining textwalls I still think we should keep calm and not push against the changes.

Free loadouts for new players needs to be a thing. Only once its live will DBG know how the veteran playerbase ends up using Auxy Shield. Daybreak has already expressed that certain weapons may need to be adjusted on Reddit. They will monitor how things go. I do have faith that if performance slides below intended functionality DBG will adjust it. Frankly I'd rather see how the changes pans out because its a chance to add a bit more skill depth to the class and maintain a higher degree of difficulty against opponents who do not have MLG awareness. It hands neither party an assured win. The infil must work for the headshot to open the ambush cleanly. The new player has more time to deal with sudden attacks.

I understand your being protective of the new blood to Planetside2. Thats great to care about their survival prospects. However I care about Stalker Infiltrator survival prospects. ( Many of which are new players who don't want to snipe & do not yet own SMGs. ) A stalker should not be expected to flat out loose to their opponents either. (ShinyNew or SaltySweet) Ambushing has finite time limitations that merit the importance of this thread.

Stalker specific patch notes simply do not exist in Planetside 2. Many infiltrator changes have been undocumented in the past. I take a proactive approach when it comes to reporting these changes. With that - Im out - Going to duck out of this subject until DBG releases the patch.

~Cheers

Have no idea what to type so Hi CuteBeaver and fistbump the kitten.