[Vehicle] Air to ground combat is TERRIBLE!!

Mainly because of Afterburner but I'll get to that later.
So basically what I personally do for ground striking is doing a dive bombing maneuver. I just fly at a high altitude, roll over and start diving vertically...like I have to do that, how am I supposed to hit anyone accurately in these places?



I also dive from high altitude because in my opinion it's an unexpected way to get attacked. But the big problem is why do I lose speed after finishing the dive attack? In my opinion best way to survive is to keep moving fast, especially after attacking, never stand still, but I lose the speed lol.
I fly at 240 kph before diving and after diving like 500 meters full thrust, I gain up to <270 kph, why cant I go over 270? And after I level out I go back to 220 kph...ok

When I finish the strike, immediately everyone shoots at me! Ever single heavy pulls out his lock on rocket launcher, I get shot by proximity flak, by everything....basically I need to repair after that one strike, where I could have killed maybe 1, 2 or 0 players.

...I could have done more with just an infantry class that respawns every 5 seconds, what was the point of all my effort and the cost lol. The aircraft costs a lot, everybody counters me, I can't do much damage because everyone is packed inside the buildings. What's the point of ground strike aircraft?
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And lastly the Afterburners are the most unfair. Why are we allowed to accelerate from 0 to max speed in a second??
After I finish this unexpected strike, when the enemy air sees me all they have to do is press 'shift' and they're up my ***! It's like a speed hack..They're just hovering, doing their own stuff and after seeing me they only press 'shift' to gain the speed I'm at in just a second.
The jets should take time to power up, the guy should not be able to catch up to me who is flying at max speed already!
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Anyways the game is in bad condition, from the core infantry to some unneeded weaponry they all are unenjoyable and also are a terrible experience for the new players.

Also there are rendering issues when ground striking, it's hard to find out where the enemies are if they're invisible from a certain height and also in large battles.
And zooming in lowers your maneuverability, for whatever reason, I cannot find a way to increase sensitivity after zooming in, I have to attack with the default view.

An AI ESF has a Rapid-fire AOE Capable weapon..
An ESF can also equip rocket-pods, which are large AOE weapons.
Your guns are also incredibly pin-point; How to hit the target, Fire the gun.
Rarely can a ground target actually evade any of your shots; Let alone infantry, whom suffer from AOE damage.
So use your AOE weapons..

So, problems are:

• * Can't go even faster than 270kp\h
• * Enemies actually respond to an enemy aircraft
• * You only killed 0-3, while surviving, only taking chip-damage from an entire base firing at you
• * Enemies are able hide inside hard-cover, avoiding being killed by an aircraft surprise attacking at 250kph speeds
• * Enemy Interception Aircraft can actually use their 0-270-instant-speed boost to intercept enemy ground-pounders

Everyone on the ground, has to manage to kill something that is able to cross the map in under a minute, due to said 250kp\h.
You just complained that you couldn't Go even faster than that..
No lock-on, can even handle their base-speed, Nor projectile is able to reliably hit them at speed.
Nor can ground escape or chase the aircraft at 250, while also having only weapons that rely on exposure-time to kill.

People scream that their targets ignore them, You scream that they react to you...
Kinda hilarious; If they didn't react, they'd be murdered hard, as in the open to an enemy aircraft that has the TTK advantage on them; a very hard advantage at that.
Which is also why they're inside buildings..
ESFs have multiple means to deal AOE damage, and a lot of it in a hurry.

If you could basically attack & evade any aircraft that goes to intercept you, by boosting first..
This means, Any ground-pounder is either dead as they boosted 2nd, (to enemy air, not ground), or any interception craft is basically incapable of actually helping ground as their target has perfectly escaped.

Anyone on the ground, also can't manage to go that speed, and the few ground vehicles with a speed-booster option have to deal with terrain.. and basically rarely ever have it built-in.
The ESF & Liberator have their Boost option for free... on top of a large selection of other perks.

Air are not hard-done-by in A2G Engagements.
Oh so far from it.

you´re right a2g is awfull, so is g2a and a2a ..

1. shi tty controlls
2. shi tty weaponoptions
3. shi tty controls and shi tty weaponoptions ..

Be more understanding.
What I'm saying there is that the game is missing the competitiveness. It's just random.

The fighter ESF's are not playing like a fighter plane. I cannot tell what are they...Also I, with the more energy who is diving should be able to outmaneuver the fighter. It's not fair the fighter who is completely idle, just catches up to me who jets past him! It's just lazy, non-competitive.

Same with the ground AA, it's again random. You can't tell the difference between AA lightening, and the lightening, you can't see the AA max, you can't see the AA Sunderer. (Flak AA should be base turrets)
I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to attack air, they should but not in the laziest way possible....like they just click on me and all this flak explodes near me, rockets follow me like a magnet.

They should destroy me when I make a mistake! When I make it obvious what I'm about to do, when I'm easy to hit (flying at them), not when I fly past them 300 kph (with Afterburner) then they open fire and decimate me.
Same with the fighter ESF, they should play properly, like a fighter and they should not have an afterburner that accelerates their plane to max speed in an instant....they should be the ones intercepting me. Not being surprised by me, "oh a ground striker just flew past, let me start up the engine, press shift and be right on him".

they are vto´s .. more like choppers than planes/harriers ..

also AAplayers don´t just click on you but they have to hold on you exposing themselves if not behind a spawnroomshield
any lock on before fired gives yo a warning of an imminant attack unless coyotes and striker ..
if you use an afterburner there is NO way that i will reliably hit you with ANYTHING .. unless you use it to late ..

Understanding?

ESFs have some control problems, yes.

• ESF also are the most PITA to actually deal with on the Ground:
• The ESF gets to pick the engagement.
• The ESF can literally escape easily, by their natural speed, let alone the booster.
• The ESF has the TTK advantage.
• All G2A Weapons have either a hard-counter available to air (Lock-ons), or require the ESF to let itself be shot for extended periods of time.
• G2A Weaponry becomes near instant, when the Pilot basically over-commits into a ball of G2A.
• All G2A weapon render the unit entirely vulnerable to every other unit on the field: Flak MAX (450 nanites), is less dangerous to infantry using only a Pistol, at range.
• The ESF also has an ample supply of AOE damage on top of their baseline damage.
• The ESF's weaponry reload while switched-out, ensuring a near endless stream of weapons-fire.
• All ESFs have built-in radar, Boost systems, self-repair, and can then install modules.
• ESFs have the largest instant-health restore for their Fire-suppression systems; allowing a near perfect heal at even half-health.

ESFs have to deal with inaccurate chip damage from numerous sources yes.
Said ESF also can pick & choose any engagement they please, with time while under fire to completely survive any engagement they pick, with just hitting the boost button.


Given the ESF has the ability to perfectly hover, fly backwards, and is essentially a gun-turret, requiring mass focus-fire...
Yeah, It's as far from an actual Fightercraft as possible.
It's not fair, that the enemy air can catch you? Try being the guy on the ground.
You pick that target, it can't even try to run from you; And you want to run, it can't even achieve a 10th of that speed.
The only thing that can catch an ESF is an ESF: To increase your boost period, equip the extra fuel tanks.

Which btw, said extra fuel tanks are on the Skyknights (a2a-only pilots), so they can actually catch you.
As otherwise, No one can actually attack the A2G's, as they'd be able to reach the warpgate, becoming invulnerable before any enemy Air could engage them.


Given, you, the Pilot can literally fly anywhere on the map inside a minute.. You actually pick the encounter.
As well, all AA weapons make themselves very clear upon firing (AA lightings are also very noticeable, as barrel changes)
Unless there is numerous AA sources all managing to converge upon you at once with perfect aim, you also have quite a bit of reaction time, to hit the boost button.
This is your perfect escape button, at any time, Boost button.

Any AA vehicle on the ground, has sacrificed their ability to practically engage or be a threat to any enemy land unit.

• MBTs with an AA gun, have half the firepower of those with AV turrets. (Whom can casually kill infantry with said AV)
• Sunderers with AA, are barely armed against even infantry, and are dead to the first tank.
• AA Maxes are vulnerable to a single Rocket-pod burst, and can be killed by an infantryman with their pistol nearly.
• Any ESF configuration has the capability to damage any target it pleases, and has the ability to pick their fights.
• An AA Vehicle or Unit, can not pick their fight: Nor can any unit with AV or AI, if something else engages them.

They are as far from Lazy as possible.
To run AA weaponry, is to literally make yourself the most vulnerable unit on the battlefield.

Flak itself, is a weapon that needs a redesign;

• As it's all about discouraging a pilot, over killing them.
• It requires the Pilot to over-commit or stay inside a field of explosions for longer than they ever need.
• When it is capable of effectively killing, the volume of units engaging is 10:1, and this becomes an near instant kill: Which isn't fun for the pilot either.

Given AA is also so specialized, they can't operate in any role, once their target-type leaves, resulting in a weapon that is as far from fun as possible, to operate at all.

Your issue, is that the ESF can intercept your ESF?
The ESF is a multi-role vehicle, that can literally play any role, with near any configuration..
That is why you are a damnable A2G VTOL Fighter, and why the same vehicle also has the capability of an Interception-Fightercraft of severe speed, booster-systems..
It is wearing too many hats.

Right now, we are expected to rely on ESFs to actually kill ESFs, while the ground is expected to 'scare' or 'deter' them away with half a regiment coordinated to engage Lone-Wolves.
The last thing, the ESF should be getting is buffs to avoiding the most dangerous thing to itself, which is itself.

I said that I lose speed after going out of the dive and game has rendering issues so I over commit.

Ok, but what's the conclusion? They have all these abilities but basically what do they do with all they have?

The ESF's are fast....but infantry can teleport for free, directly to the objective and spawn every 5 seconds with no downsides....the infantry have a much better ability .
If your ESF gets damaged you have to return to base and repair that can take a minute. Meanwhile the infantry spawns a dozen times, actually does more work than the expensive ESF during all that time.
The heavy class has weapons to deal with infantry, and has an AT weapon that also counters air targets and it's all free, not only that but he has more survivability so this class will be overused in the objectives....this one class can do what the ESF can do but for free.

Or lets say you're fighting air to air and you're winning, you gain air superiority...and what now? One Ranger gun shows up and your air superiority is gone in that location. What do you do? Do you like scout some empty areas searching for lone targets? Some ANT with no top gun, or some lone noob....great new player experience btw. Or do you fight more pointless air to air fights if you can't make some impact on the objective?

There is not rly any downside in using AA, except on an MBT, or Harasser...their other weapons are much better.
The MAX, all he does is go to the terminal and switches weapons in an instant. There is no risk.
The ANT and Sunderer are vehicles which use the Kobalt and Ranger most of the time.
The basilisk is too general and doesn't do well against air or ground, Bulldog and Fury are under powered
The best weapons are Kobalt and Ranger because it hard counters what you need and what you can. You can't defeat a tank with the weapons you have, that's a job for someone else.

Look everyone would enjoy a game where you got to just strafe in and mow down infantry like a Normandy beach. That would be fun. But this isn't a PvE game. There are no AI infantry for you to mow down. For such an experience to occur those infantry must be real players.

So who wants to sign up for a game where you get to be the infantry strafed and mowed down by aircraft?

….crickets....

You must understand that all design decisions about A2G revolves around this fact. If you keep it in mind, many of the mechanics of it make sense.

Read what I wrote! lol. (I said it's non-competitive and useless)

Basically it needs a change in my opinion.

Infantry have limited "Teleport" range which is respawning.
Aircraft can do the same trick, without any actual price tag on it, with less down time for the same distance (Boosting across)
To travel across the lattice via these teleports, you spend 5~ relative seconds per lattice node.
You also are stuck to those exact locations, IE the spawn rooms of reach.
The aircraft can travel across the entire map, to any exact location, with perfect control, and can do so to any distant location or close location in equal or less time.

The Infantry is also the most squishy thing on the battlefield, and is typically dead & respawning constantly.
You also can not Teleport to your objectives directly:
Attacking Enemy bases requires sunderers, Which have to be physically moved & deployed, the range to reach said thing to spawn on it, is also limited.
There's a few exceptions of course, but you can't teleport into the cap Points or even into the base itself.

If your ESF gets damaged: You are not dead

• You keep your kill-streak
• You do not incurr any nanite-replacement costs (Infantry uses kits, grenades, or similar, replenish at nanite cost)
• You have the ability to travel to any location, even the Warpgate inside a minute for your several second repair
• You have the option of relying on the built-in Automatic-repair, if using an Engineer
• You also have the option of having Fire-Suppression which is a 50% instant heal, that has a minor cooldown.

A single ESF, has the firepower to erase entire squads if used well.

• You have AOE weaponry for a primary, that deals splash & direct damage to infantry.
• You can equip a secondary that deals heavy damage & large splash, that also works against tanks effectively.

An ESF has enough splash capability to handle multiple infantry targets at once, and the speed to attack & vanish inside seconds.
An infantryman outside of VS, has only nanite-costing limited-use Grenades for any splash-damage of any kind, relying on pure direct-fire : Which is typically single-target.
If it engages Armor, unless it has a nanite-explosive of a specific type (c-4 or tank mines), it must be 1 of 2 classes:

• Light Assault, with Rocklet-Launcher which isn't scary by itself (nor compared to either ESF gun), but isn't a joke.
• Or Heavy Assault with a low-Velocity (unless VS), rocket, that requires multiple-shots, and is dumbfired in most cases.

Add in the vulnerability of infantry, and the volume of weapons with splash on Vehicles, or dedicated AI weaponry..
The capability of infantry killing infantry, compared to vehicles killing infantry, is quite low.
This is why Bases have bloody solid walls around them, blocking a lot of angles from outside.

The infantry respawning 20 times, is usually is it dying 20 times.
As well, that is 20x5 seconds , The time it takes to kill an infantry man is under 5 seconds.
The time to kill an ESF with AA gun, is longer than 5 seconds.

You need to go wield an AA weapon.
A Flak MAX, is a teddybear compared to an AV or AI MAX.
It also literally dead to an ESF in 1 single pod volley, one single volley, IE 1 second death: 450 nanites.
To switch weapons; You have to be near a terminal, This isn't happening in an open field by miracle.
That means a Sunderer has to be there, the ESF has to not engage during the switch, want to bother, and of course, Nothing be engaging the MAX anytime when it has AA guns, as it will die quickly to anything..
Which means, the most common cause of Terminal-right-beside-you is Spawn-room, Which means your ESF is farming a spawn-room.
Otherwise, You are stuck with AA guns, that can't do anything to anything else.. That is a risk.
Compared to being in an ESF that can one-shot that 450 nanite investment at range, or escape instantly.

A sunderer with AA guns can not aim them downwards... So they are typically unarmed when only using AA.
An MBT without an AV top-gun is easily killed, as MBTs have HALF their AV firepower in their topgun.
Lighting Tanks, deal damage quickly to other lightings, whom are firing a very inaccurate low damage Skyguard weapon..

AA-Lock-On launchers, are lucky if dumbfired, and low velocity.
Unless Fighting Harassers, these also aren't that effective in general; While ESFs laugh like hell.

Vehicles use Kobalts, not since Air is harmless..
But as Everything else is more common to want to kill them, or to be killed.
To use an AA gun, you make yourself easily murdered by everything else on the ground..

Ranger does not hard-counter a Lone-wolf ESF either.
Unless ESF is an idiot, you leave them alive, with their Kill-streak bonus, all their nanites..
And even if they died, they can return inside a minute with a new ESF, as travel-time for air is measured in seconds.
Said vehicle to cross a hex, can easily be 5-15 minutes, let alone if the hex isn't dead empty.

If you win in A2A, you also have the ability to fly outside the targeting range of every single G2A weapon we have.
They have angle limits, range limits, and You have the ability to patrol the entire sky across the map.
You aren't limited to a single hex, you can literally visit the random hex at the opposite edge and return, before an MBT leaves the warpgate hex.


Actually play the game, as the guys dealing with ESFs.
I have, It's not "Woe is the ESF, pilot able to survive the dedicated specialized anti-air tank, while being alone, as Pilot, with twice the guns as a land vehicle of equal price, all manner of Bonus perks in the ESF, and an instant escape button at will"

Fighting Air is a ******* nightmare.
At any time, something with the firepower to erase an entire sunderer & squad inside seconds can arrive at any direction from the enemy warpgate inside 1 minute, and Any Anti-air ground vehicle or max or infantry, is as useful as a pistol against a tank, if said Air doesn't arrive or chooses to leave.
Air picks the engagement, Air can leave at any moment, G2A is designed as a deterrent, AI & AV (let alone air's), are Killers.
So Air with AI, kills.
AA tries to scare away Air, which is intact to kill others, or those in the group of dedicated AA that it attacked.
AA is useless at anything other than mass-spam to scare away enemy Air, which can return at any instant, without cost.

As unlike killing an MBT, with AV, which is always useful, AA doesn't typically kill.
So the Pilot isn't dead, and when it is dead, Not only does it have basically no travel time, it likely has full nanites before it dies again; Making it an infinite cycle if it wants to farm.
As that Pilot also can pick any fight that doesn't have dedicated AA, unlike an MBT which can't magic across half the map to find where there isn't any AV to trouble it.
Nor can that Tank escape any AV fire inside an instant.

Which is precisely why I've been hoping AA gets a buff, and I'm a die-hard ground pounder pilot myself. My job, as it stands, is too bloody easy. If AA were actually legit dangerous, my job would actually be a legit challenge to do, rather than being able to just walk all over ground squads that don't use massively disproportionate amounts of AA.

As a pilot, I'm flying in a highly mobile, yet fragile aerial platform. Focused AA should damn well erase me, if I'm reckless and careless enough to get caught in a barrage.

The Liberator is the main problem.

A well piloted Liberator, even without gunners, is more deadly than any other unit and in any vehicle role whatsoever. If the pilot can hit consistently with a dalton (using seat jumping), then it can solo any ESF pilot - skynight or no. A racer Liberator is even faster than all but a racer ESF and even without gunners it can chase and kill ESFs. Since almost all ESFs use hover it means that a good pilot only Liberator is going to rek them.

It can certainly tank bust against a tank that should go out without support from another vehicle simply because again - dalton. A burster max just tickles a liberator that can face tank a burster max and still kill it with less than 1 nosegun clip.

A skyguard is simple for the Liberator to kill with a dalton from long range or sneak up and nearly instantly kill the skyguard by a clip into its rear armor and then a 1 dalton shot to finish the job, although, it probably won't be able to sneak up on a good skyguard driver.

So for those who want to be the most impactful players in this game here's what to do: Build a Liberator with highest levels in racer chassis, composite armor, fire suppress, dalton belly gun, hyena tail gun, and tank buster nose gun (mag. size for nose gun). Next, you have to become very good with those weapons and flying a liberator. It is not easy especially with racer chassis and no stealth.
For a long time, skynights, ESF packs, and AA will rek you, but when you learn to pick your fight and accurately fire those weapons, then nothing except supreme effort from multiple enemy players will stop you.

Equip your Ant with AA and wait for the"Dive bombers". They fly straight at you and rarely pull away.

Basically a2g used to be strong, but everyone wanted to pound the ground and not to use combined arms to combat a2g by pulling air. So they added all kinds of G2A while nerfing, repeatedly, A2G.

What really happened is that they would have preferred to take out air entirely. So instead they just made it completely useless. They turned ESF into cert pinata.

You are definitely better off in a tank or as infantry.

Plus they added coyotes and hyenas. So air is garbage and not really part of the game, its more of a sub-game no one really enjoys that much.

If you mean the original Air, where a Single Rocket-pod could erase an entire squad in a volley, hence the "LOLpod" name, while Daltons also massacred entire infantry squads with their sheer AOE & damage in one shot from the sky-limit...
Not to mention, what that does to vehicles.. Wasn't there, to confirm the vehicles.
Then sure, "Strong" is one way to put it.

Combined Arms is Not: "When attacked by Air, You pull Air"
That is "If your opponent engages you with this, You must be the same thing as them, to battle them"
In which case, an example:
"Group A"
- 12 Infantry
- 3 MBTs
That is a combined-force of 2\3rds of the game.

"Group B"
- 3 ESF

"Group C"
- 1 Liberator

"Group D"
- 1 MBT

"Group E"
- 12 Infantry

Now if group "A" was engaged by group "B", B is likely to win, by erasing the entire group of infantry near instantly, while the MBTs are near useless.
Group "A" is literally combined-arms, Group "B" is not; Group "B" has the best results.

If Group "A" was engaged by "C", the Infantry would die near instantly, and the MBTs would also be fodder.
To be a threat to this, You must be of Group "B", which is solely aircraft; The opposite of combined arms.

Group "D" if attacked by "E", an entire squad squad, has a 50% chance of victory by nature of not instantly killing the infantry.
If "D" was 5 MBTs, Group "A" would still likely win, if the infantry can assist the tanks in the attack.
If the battle was a complete-draw , it would not be combined-arms, as the infantry would be required to have no effect.

In these examples, Air, is the sole thing not benefiting at all from actually working with the 2 other thirds of the game.
Imagine if Infantry required Infantry to face.
You can't call it "Combined Arms", when there is no actual "Combination", If your only viable solution is the same thing you're fighting, that thing is a problem.
A combined-group of Infantry, and Vehicles , that actually have benefits to working together are combined-arms.
A combined-group of infantry, and Vehicles, where only the vehicles matter, Is not combined-arms.
The same is true, if you replace vehicles in that last line with Infantry.

An ESF is still the most dangerous thing on the field, past liberators; And these things operate solo.
The Liberator can still kill damn near anything it pleases solo, past massacring entire-platoons without gunners.
AIR is the sole force that can operate Solo, without any supporting allies, against equal & larger groups of enemies, while staying viable, without having to out-skill every single enemy on the field by a severe margin.

You pull an MBT, more-expensive than an ESF, you can't engage an entire squad, or a hand-full of other tanks solo casually.
You pull a lighting, and you aren't taking out an infantry squad casually by yourself.
A hand-full of infantry, have weapons that aren't truly-gimped, nor require severe specialization, so are carried easily (and by default) by the most basic infantry (Assaults); This means, Land-Vehicles which also can't travel an entire hex in a second typically, once engaged can not easily escape.

You pull an ESF, and by yourself, can operate near indefinitely, if you aren't an idiot.
Any force that isn't in the sky, can not hunt you down, need to specialize entirely for you, and the ESF on top has the TTK on most targets; while also having the ability to escape anything on the ground in one button press.

If you aren't getting anything out of Aircraft, due to anti-air weapons existing, allowing people to be not forced into Aircraft to even defend or engage aircraft..
You have a piloting issue.

As that is akin to telling a Pilot, he needs to go drive an MBT to kill an MBT.
Which is what every pilot saying "You need to fly an ESF to kill an ESF" is saying
IE, don't be calling Air's firepower useless... We have bloody flak-cannons on the Lighting for the price of the ESF.
Something that gets

• Free Radar
• Free Automatic repair
• 2 Weapons at once
• Built-in Booster
• Fastest Speed in the Game.
• The Highest Fire-Suppression Heal

And those are all built-in perks, you didn't have to slot in a single one, past fire-suppression.
Lighting, does not have a single one of those perks, everything takes a slot for land-vehicles.

Walls of text are read by no one.

Okay, I'll make it simple.

Air is not weak.
If you die in an ESF, you have failed somewhere by over-committing, walking into a *********** of AA for no-reason, or due to an Enemy-ESF, if not blind-luck of someone.
An ESF has enough advantages over an equally priced Tank, that it's comic.
The Liberator is worse; An MBT solo-operated is killed by infantry, resulting in most effective MBTs being 2-mans.
A Solo-Liberator is capable of that performance with just the driver; it is a 3-man aircraft that rarely bothers for a 2nd pilot.

A could easily beat B, if 5 HA's pulled AA launchers or 1 burster max and 3 AA launchers. If one MBT had a ranger 2nd gun it'd also help a ton. Likewise A could also beat C albeit with more difficulty than beating B.

I do agree that Air is too strong. You just exaggerated quite a bit.