A.I. Max Weapons

So having good AI weapon for long range (falcons) doesn't take anything away from NC AI MAX weapon having poor range? Makes sense ... in some far universe.

NC have ridiculously better AI for intended max range (CQC) and very viable option for any target at longer range (falcon).

Again, you probably, was absent from school when they taught this word. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/complain
I was not saying that falcons are bad, imbalanced, unjust or something. Falcons are ok. They work great at mid-range as intended. Same for pounders. Comets suck, but well, Higby likes overnerfed VS.
If you really want to find some complain in my posts you can consider this a complaint about ppl, lying about harmless at mid range nc max.

All maxes have enough for CQC tank options for mid and long range but only NC max has superb option for CQC.

And kill a lot more meatbags but who cares about that when we can spit some barely relevant numbers. 0.3s TTK is only infinitely longer than 0s TTK. Pfeh, infinity is so short, not even worth to speak about it.

And this matters in large-scale MMOFPS because ...?

You said they are immune. MBT is immune to on-foot infil with commisioner, even 100 infils wont kill mbt. Should work for immune max too. Why not?

Ye-ye, I already agreed, its very consolating to know that one day NC maxes, who just wiped your squad with minimum efforts, will meet TR/VS max at longe range with no place to hide. I would prefer some realiable countermeasure, though, like with VS maxes, when you shoot them with 10 carbines and they die.

Consistently headshotting ppl with shaky MG without ADS? Right, we have so much of such supermen, it's a miracle every second VS max doesnt steamroll whole platoons.

No, when you meet falcon max you are not that better at range.
Still, how's that relevant to max crush in crowded room? What range do you need there?

And CQC tanks need such weapon all the time because... ?

"You baaaad", how fresh and original. Not like i said something being outperformed by about NC AI at range, but you seem content, talking to you imagined opponent and ignoring most of my actual words.

Probably, all these underperforming maxes which i see around are bad too. Just a coincidence, that good ones gathered in NC max community.

Why most of these TR maxes go down faster than NC ones? Did they thoroughly selected only bad players too?

Sure, right after Cosmos will get ROF of Orion instead of current what, 337?

It does (NC MAXs were much worse with the Falcon 2.0 version which was rubbish for AI), but much less than having BETTER long range AV weapons for AI (Pounders and Fractures) and BETTER normal AI weapons for longer range AI (everything really).

Nonsense.

For AI they have a 0.3 second TTK advantage and a large sustained DPS disadvantage (the 0.3 second difference is functionally the same, but the sustained DPS disadvantage is a genuine disadvantage).

For MAX vs MAX they LOSE with 3 out of the 4 weapons when standard vs standard or with KA5 vs KA5.

75% of MAX vs MAX weapons being sub par is not "better" it is what we tend to call "worse".

Sorry but that was a complaint, no amount of trying to revise history will ever change that.

And again, no one is saying Falcons (the 3.0 version anyway) are useless at range (although they aren't as good as Pounders and I'd argue Fractures against moving targets), but the MAX AI weapons are, even Mattocks with Slugs and extended mags comparatively.

NC AI weapons are MUCH worse at range than the "gap" of 0.3 seconds TTK between NC AI weapons and TR/VS AI weapons.

Which is the issue.

Again nonsense.

Against infantry the ONLY NC positive is a 0.3 second TTK advantage, yet TR and VS AI MAXs have a significant sustained DPS advantage for just a 0.3 second TTK difference.

MAX vs MAX it is even worse with NC AI MAX having to use Grinders to win (using anything else can put them in an unwinable situation).


Neither of those are even "advantages" overall, never mind "superb options".

Again, no.

With clientside hit detection 0.0 seconds TTK and 0.3 seconds TTK are functionally the same, the infantry attacked will be just as dead with either in 99.9% of situations.

However better sustained DPS means in a LOT of situations VS and TR AI MAXs will get kills NC AI MAXs just would not.

Because it does. If you die in 1 on 1 it is just as important as dying 3 on 3.


However if you're only talking about massed battles then the higher ranged and sustained DPS weapons (which only the VS and TR have) are much, much, much better than any NC AI MAX option.

In that situation the NC AI MAX is much worse than the TR and VS AI MAX, which is likely why you rarely see NC AI MAX wandering around larger battlefields, they are usually pulled for very specific places (Biolabs etc.).

Effectively immune to an NC AI MAX killing it, yes.

Immune to everything, no. Why would I claim something that preposterous?

Again that is completely missing the point.

The point is VS and TR AI MAXs can do exactly the same thing, at least as easily.

You shoot NC AI MAXs witrh 10 Carbines they die too! I'm bemused as to why you do not know this!

It's quite possible with the Blueshift and the Mercy (to a slightly lesser degree), if you're not capbable of it, that doesn't make it impossible, it just makes you incapable of it.

Believe me there are some VERY good MAX players out there that can do just that, to a quite surprising range.

Again:


1. You were talking about "dual shottie MAXs" not Falcons.
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2. The Falcon is not an AI weapon.
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3. The Pounder is still better (and the Fracture too in this situations).

A VS MAX would take more damage from a TR MAX in this situation that a NC MAX.

Even the smallest rooms are usually 15+m across, so the answer to your question would seem to be: "a lot more range than you seem to think", I guess.

Because there is a LOT more to Planetside 2 than hiding behind a doorframe and never moving.... that would be why.

The better question would be why would AI MAXs not need weapons like the Blueshift and Mercy.

And true. Don't forget TRUE!

Sorry but if you are getting beaten with a Blueshift or Mercy MAX at range by an NC AI MAX it is not "balance" it is purely down to the player.

That's just the harsh reality there.

Except the stats say they aren't underperforming, which goes back to seeing what you want to see, I guess.

Considering they have exactly the same defensive statistics, I have no answer for that, and neither do you (probably because you've just made it up - that's the only cogent answer I can think of).

The stats have actually always shown NC AI MAX die more (not less).

The NC MAX fallacy.

I can also abuse theorycrafting and state that the NC MAX is the best range AI MAX since a perfect aim slug MAX got a better TTK, at all ranges, then a blueshift or mercy MAX.

Ofc that theorycrafting is BS, like your 0.3 second TTK advantage, because ingame, that "0.3 second TTK advantage" might happen every 100 kills or so while your NC MAX shotgun will instant gib ppl, as long as you are pointing in the target general direction AND the target is inside 5-10 meters.

You pay for that advantage, do you pay too much? VS and TR players strongly disagree and from the looks of it the devs agree with the TR+VS players.

EDIT:

nope, from Das Anfall:
http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/items/weapons

highest average KDR MAX weapon:
AF-34 Mattock

highest BR 100 KDR MAX weapon:
AF-34 Mattock

They tend to kill more too, as they would generally being pulled only for CQB in fairly specific situations (compare the total user numbers in that data to see what I mean).
However they die more likely because of lack of range and % reloading time.

Atis was claiming that NC AI MAX both take less damage and die less than TR and VS AI MAXs.

So if you're going to jump into an argument then 1) know what is being discussed and 2) make sure you know what is what; KDR is meaningless in the context of actually dying more as it takes no real account of that (or at least the end result does not show differences). Frequency of dying is relevent here.

No, the reality.

Which is nonsense when you consider CoF and DPS.

The only time there is any difference is when the MAX can be killed by something that can be firing in those 0.3 second - that won't stop you dying, but it might kill the MAX too, however that is a very rare occasion, because usually if you can fire say a decimator you'll be able to fire it with or without that 0.3 second difference (because of clientside hit detection).

So the % of situations where the result is not functionally the same is tiny.

Maybe the Devs disagree, that's up to them, just like me disagreeing with them is up to me.

So far the Devs have eventually agreed with me about what had to change in PS2 more than they disagreed with me, so I'm fairly happy about that!

For all the players who think NC max is better than a TR/VS max, go make an Nc account, trial a shotgun for your second arm, and tell me about your first impressions. I can bet you won't do as good as you did with your TR max the first time you played it.

Hopefully you will realise that the NC max needs to dump a **** load of certs to be competitive.
Most NC players can not afford to spend that much certs in a single class. Cuz they don't have that many certs.

I was lolling so hard yesterday when I at least killed 11 NC maxes with my VS alt in a few hours.
2 of em, were taken head on with me in my LA. (Well not face to face, but I killed him with my shotgun in CQC)

Believe it or not, there are more noobs in this game than pros, and they find TR maxes a lot easier to use and a lot more rewarding.

This thread is no longer constructive and is being closed.