A.I. Max Weapons

Could someone explain to me the pros and cons of each faction's anti-infantry Max weapons? I've played all three and still feel like the TR and VS get a paltry addition to range in lieu of *ahem* damage where the NC has a far superior DPS at nearly the same effective range. Could someone clarify this or am I pretty well on the mark?

basically the NC MAX has the potential to slaughter at close ranges far more efffectively than any other max unit

it has a shield, which it can potentially use to get behind a suprised Lockdown MAX, its disadvantage is range, but only the VS MAX is proficient at range

the VS MAX has solid ranged weapons, they work up close and far away ZOE is useless now so everyone uses charge


the TR MAX has chainguns that have hilariously low RPM considering the fact that they are "Chainguns" which is usually synonymous for "really high RPM" these guns also have terrible effective range (base model or mutilator since most players will never get onslaughts or mercies)

lockdown is and has always been useless, the only possible use for it is using dual bursters or maybe dual pounders

lol yeah TR maxes are kinda trash and the funny thing is the nc maxes have been nerfed..... alot and their still broken in cqc. so what we need to ******* do is scrap the ******* shotgun god hands and redesign them and give them mid range weapons. bring them down to us. lol i see nc whine about it all time fine you can play at "mid range" lol but when you can't kill **** at range more then slug mattlocks could i want you to remember this post and that i ******* called it.

Tho you have to say that the VS AI weapon only works at mid range(and CQC)...at long range it is useless too. And midrange only against infantry...not against other maxes cause they would just need way too many hits and you only hit with maybe 1 out of 6-7 bullets. It's not like some midrange sniper or something that people claim who never actually played a VS Max.
At long range you rather use comets than the AI weapons...tho at long range the other factions Max AV weapons work better vs Infantry than the comets(cause comets are sloooooow and veeeeery visible).

So overall CQC VS Max is inferior to other Maxes(vs. other Maxes as well as vs infantry)...at midrange it shines to a certain degree(not so sure how it really looks if the others are using pounders/AV weapons instead of their CQC AI weapons)...at long range it's inferior again(cause nobody with a brain would use AI weapons there. Maybe you can kill more with VS-AI weapons there...but seriously...it's still just the second best after AV weapons).

I always have to laugh if people are only comparing AI weapons and leave the AV weapons out as if they would not exist.....and then say "VS is superior at mid- and longrange".

The NC MAX's weakness is not range. Though it is popular to complain about the NC MAX's range if you kit the NC MAX out right, he can be deadly far beyond what most players will assume to be the NC MAX's effective range.

The NC MAX's REAL weakness is sustain.

You try to hold a point and a pair of TR/VS MAXes with an engineer walk in. You can try to burst down one guy, but then you're reloading for 4 seconds while you're getting reamed with fire.

You have no suppression capability since once you blow through those mags, and you WILL blow through those mags very very rapidly, you're a sitting duck for 3.5-4 seconds.

An NC MAX who over-extends is toast once he bursts down the first one to three heavies in front of him. Even with a moderate amount of gun fire, every MAX is going to go down fairly quickly, never mind tossing in explosives. A TR or VS MAX can keep killing for much longer, which can mean taking out those 4 or 5 infantry quickly before needing to reload.

That`s not going to happen with an NC MAX unless those infantry are asleep at the wheel.

NC MAX is overpowered 1v1 against infantry at close range. Nerf.

The NC MAX should self-destruct in shame and dishonour whenever it walks up to an enemy infil and considers unloading both mags on the poor hapless creatures at point blank range.

The Cycler series of weapons have incredible sustained fire. Anyone who can track a target can get effective kills with a TR MAX. However, the high RoF works against the bloom mechanics, which limits them at range, especially since the MERC-3 got hit with the nerf bat awhile back. The only reason TR could never get a handle on Lockdown is because they think like Infantry, and always place themselves in terrible positions... But with each base redesign update, there are better opportunities to make use of it. That being said, Onslaughts with Charge are only marginally behind ScatterMAXs against infantry, but with far less down time.

VS MAXs Blueshifts have the best accuracy overall, while still maintaining decent damage levels. But because the weapon uses the Min damage value only, the low DPS in close range does get it in trouble alot. I think right now they run primarily Blueshifts or Nebulas (high RoF) to match a situation, but use them more intelligently due to a lack of dominating niche. I've seen VS MAXs try to utilize mobility (even without ZOE) far more then the other empires during a typical fight, using their range to shift the bulk of units around without leaving a side exposed. And what most people fail to realize is that the most significant fall out from ZOE is the fact that almost all VS MAXs are now certed out.

NC MAXs are, by far, the most niched of the 3, in both AI and AV. However, it does have significant power within its weapon's design purpose, so they've developed a better sense of when to use them. All of them, except the Ravens, have a habit getting in close, making them them incredible shock troopers if you know when to pull them En mass. As a side effect of this, advanced NC tactics synergize this difference in units types better, rotating different units to the front during a push for maximum effectiveness. This is in contrast to both the VS and TR, which are more general purpose in nature.

Problem with NC maxes:

Totally useless without extended mags and slugs.

Cost of ex mags: 500 certs per arm
Cost of slugs: 150 certs per arm

Once you have invested 1300 certs on top of the 2 AI weapons you bought, you have pretty decent max, i actually enjoy it a lot in biolabs and towers.


IMO Best AI max at the moment: VS max
Why? Most versatile,has the best hitbox, and doesnt need a **** load of investment on every AI loadout.

The TR MAXes best AI weapon might be the Pounder. Point-and-click weapon that has a very short TTK at short, mid, and longer ranges.

It also has the lovely distinction of being able to shred through MAXes, fight off enemy vehicles, and deny like a lasher.

Skip the AI weapons completely and just put on the AV weapons. The TR Pounders and NC Falcons can pretty much OHK infantry when used on each arm.

I'd say a con and a shame is that all the AI variants for all three factions are virtually indistinguishable from each other.

Yeah. Even as VS with the worst AV weapons of all Maxes I often prefer my comets over using the AI guns. With AI guns I stand not much of a chance against enemy AI Maxes anyway and most enemies just don't expect to face comets in buildings(yesterday I killed 5 NC ScatMaxes within about 1 minute in a tech plant. If I had blueshifts the first one would have killed me already.). The crap thing about comets is that you usually need three hits for infantry...so your whole magazine...which makes it impossible to fight more than 1-2 targets(and even hitting one with both guns is already tricky) at a time. I wished we would have any of the other factions AV weapons...but they would render our AI weapons completely obsolete.

Well, Mattocks w/extended mags are amazing, but Blue Shifts allow for a much longer effective range, and Mercies are kind of a weaker version of them.

The main weakness of NC's is the limited mag size, and of course range. Sometimes it's better to have that instant kill on infantry at close range obviously, and decimating other AI MAXes in close range is nice as well, but it is a reload-heavy gun whereas I've got 75 rounds in my Mercies which can comfortably kill considerably more infantry per reload than Mattocks.

I think for all factions it's usually better to go with the long-range AI weapons for MAX as they're not too much higher TTK and give you much more versatility. Although the large mag size or high RoF AI options for VS/TR have situational uses. I don't see much point in using anything other than Mattocks for NC currently though. It's not like you ever have to fight other shotgun MAXes in CQC - instant kill on infantry is instant kill so having a more accurate instant kill that works to longer distances is kind of just better.

Maybe I'm biased since I'm TR, but I do think our AI options are clearly the weakest. I don't think VS AI is weaker than NC, just different. At least Pounders are fun and something different than the other AV weapons though.

• NC AI MAX weapons best TTK is 0.0 seconds - VS/TR best TTK (infantry) is 0.3 seconds (ignoring headshots) which is functionally the same (with clientside hit detection, lag and human reaction time). If you're good enough to consistantly headshot with TR/VS MAX AI weapons the narrows the field further (it is fairly pointless to even try to headshot with NC AI MAX weapons - with the lower multiplier at the range you may hit you may as well use bodyshots and definately hit).
• A standard NC AI MAX cannot beat a standard VS/TR AI MAX unless it has dual grinders (so with Scattercannons, Hacksaws & Mattocks it always loses). An NC KA5 AI MAX cannot beat a TR/VS KA5 AI MAX unless it has dual Grinders with extended magazines.
• The NC AI MAX has nothing like the ranged TTK of the Blueshift or Mercy, even with Mattocks with slugs (although slugs can sometimes get close with lucky clustering of shots).
• The NC AI MAX has nothing like the effective range of the the Blueshift or Mercy, even with Mattocks with slugs.
• You will spend most of your time reloading with an NC AI MAX, even with Grinders with extended mags.

Aegis shield while reloading : you can beat a TR/VS MAX w/out extended mags or grinders. Also, most MAX vs. MAX encounters aren't manly duels where neither MAX has taken any damage and there are no infantry around and so on. Being able to put a ton of damage into another MAX faster will often finish them off or make them retreat, not stand there and try to finish you off while you reload. I do think extended mags are way more important for NC and it might somewhat unfair to have their AI cost an extra 1k certs to really shine while VS/TR don't need ext mags as much, but then again Mattocks + ext mags are probably worth it.


VS/TR TTK difference from dual shotguns is pretty significant, really. Calling it functionally the same is absurd, especially since these things called heavy assaults exist. An overshielded heavy can put way more damage into a TR/VS MAX before dying than they can to an NC MAX.

Slugs ?! In biolab ? haha. Use mattock instead (ext mags, no slugs). This will change your life. Slugs reduce your damage to 700 per shot, which might be good against infantry but forget about killing an ennemy MAX in 1v1. (I'm sure you did it once, yes, but this means nothing). I removed them once, never used them again since I bought Mattocks.

Anyway yes, even though VS are VERY good at complaining regarding their MAX ("it's useless blablabla") it's still the best AI MAX IMO, even without ZoE (75 rounds per mag, 30m effective range, what else ? Just check videos and try to do the same with a NC MAX). I don't ask for any VS MAX nerf. TR MAX needs a bit of love and NC is fine. I personnaly love the non-versatility.

If you try to use the shield to cover reloads it tends to bug out on you. By bug, I mean making your next mag do no damage and/or permanently removing ammo from your ammo pool until you get to a terminal.

Using Charge Iv at most lost 1-2 shells at a time, annoying but not the biggest of deals. But, while I still used the shield for AI I have had countless times where I lost ENTIRE mags of ammo from my pool. The worst it got to was about 25 shells missing from just one arm (almost 50 shells lost in total out of the 120 you get) thanks to me using that shield to cover reloads or quick defending use. The damned thing also has bleeds damage from everything anyway.

Looking dead at the only guy shooting you, take chip damage somehow. Use the shield to block an AI mine, eat that mine from it clipping into/behind the shield. Stand in front of a tank, take 0 damage while he shells your face. Have prefect timing to block a rocket coming at you, you're missing half your HP. The shield is unreliable at what it does. Client side hit detection makes it impossible to work at intended from you never knowing where the other guy sees your shield or even when you need to put it up. To use the shield effectively you have to know the future against anything but spam. I went back to an un-certed Charge even though I maxed out that shield within a week of it coming out.


And what he says about Kinetic armor is right. That gives you an effective small arms HP of 16,000 up from the 10,000 you get while stock. Scatts do 130*6 damage at most (780 total under 8m) and need 21 shells (20.51) to kill a KA5 MAX with body shots. Mattocks do 112*6 (672 under 10m) and need 24 (23.8) shells to kill with body shots. Go for head shots and you might counter the lack of mag damage or just miss more than enough pellets to counter the added damage as the head hit box is very often much smaller than the COF + pellet spread and it being a moving target to boot. Just taking about the 10,000 stock HP needs 13 (12.82) Scatter shells and 15 (14.88) Mattock shells to kill.

What other weapon in the game FORCES head shots and/or cert options in order to do it's job within it's perfect conditions? I can only think of 3, and the NC MAX has all of them.

Slugs do 500 damage at 8m and drop to 334 damage at 40m. It takes a flat 20 slugs at best to kill a MAX without head shots, 14 with pure head shots at max damage.

Anti-infantry =/= this weapon needs to one clip a MAX. It's not the AI weapons' job to kill other MAXes specifically.

You also have to acknowledge the TTK for a dual shotgun MAX on another MAX is way, way shorter than Blue Shifts or Mercies or even the higher RoF/DPS options.

Also there are plenty of weapons that are pretty bad w/out certain cert options, and there are also many that are terrible if you're not going for headshots - shotguns at least aren't particularly hard to get some headshots with especially against MAXes which aren't the smallest or fastest targets. You're trying to make this more dramatic than it is.


Anyway, I'd be fine with NC getting a Mercy equiv if TR got Mattocks out of it. But I don't think it needs to happen for balance and I don't think NC MAXes are really suffering - some players just have a strong preference for one type of MAX over another.

TR and VS AI weapons used to be carbon copies, what changed? And when did the change happen?

Nope. Not even at point blank, unless I missed a major remodeling of the AI weapon damage model.