[Suggestion] Liberators need a Nerf

I would like to see more dramatical difference between Zepher and Dalton. Zepher should be antiinfantry and not efficient against armor while dalton should be pure antiarmor with little to no splash. So dalton should be able to kill infantry on direct impact only.
On the part of nerfing lib survivability Im not sure in current state of the game. Dew to rendering issues it is already hard to see maxes, if devs nerf lib armor it will be absurd. A liberator will die to something, that he doesn't even see.

Yeah, I agree entirely. Lib armor needs nerfing against everything except flak (AA towers and MAXes). I'm sure that's doable though.

I agree on that part, Tank hits should not leave lib with 50%+ hp. I spent roughly an hour last to days sniping bad pilots with vanguard, and while you can instagib ESFs, libs just start syart running away with half health left.

i dont care about tank spams at the spawns cause you can shoot rockets while inside the safety of the spawn before it ends up getting capped, but i have to agree that the liberator needs to be looked at again, best option would be to remove the liberators ability to hover while using the dalton or zephr.

it would make many liberator farmers QQ but o well, as it is, theres more an more vehicles then infantry, an i put the blame soley on that x3 SC event, now theres even more players spamming rocket pods, but theres more an more liberators using dalton/zephrs too which has gotten very annoying.

i dont recommend the anti air rocket launchers, jsut get the NS Decimator, that thing does serious dmg, i 2-shotted a liberator with it, i was lucky to get a liberator kill since its pilot didnt know what it was doing so it was easy to get the shots in, plus he had no air support which is a rather rare thing to see nowadays

Removing ability to hover will not help - only braindead noobs hovet above enemy bases - because of dumbfire and tanks (esp magriders with saron)

The idea of a ground support, A-10 tankbuster-style aircraft is good. Heavy armour, insane front cannon.
The idea of a high altitude, WW2-style bomber is good. Extremely damaging bombs, rear gunner.
The idea of an aircraft being both of those at the same time, is unbalanced.

As a tank you need to decide anti-armour, anti-infantry or a mix.
As an ESF, you need to decide anti-air or anti-ground.

The liberator pilot should be forced to choose it's role (or a combination), and be forced to deal with the weakness.

Spawning over and over inside a camped room like lemmings makes no sense either, but people do it all the bloody time and then they complain about the results. This game already lets you make spawns with a sunderer, or a beacon; you could move there in a galaxy, sunderer, or deploy in pods in a lot of cases. It would be easy for 50 people to make a few AA MAXes and still storm the base on foot with a handful of enemy soldiers there, but they're all too braindead to do anything but appear at the same camped room ad nauseum until the enemy cap the base.

If the players are too dense to use what the game gives them properly, they should either quit moaning and deal with the results, or simply have the game bar them from doing stupid things. There's no reason to nerf liberators for doing what they're supposed to do, just because nobody has the brains to fight against it with the tools provided.

And people wonder why infantry battles are dead, its because 3 infantry per lib are farming exp not out fighting in infantry battles, nerf the overpowered Libs and the infantry battles will go back to their former epicness, because ground vehicles are not nearly as powerfull as Libs and infantry atleast have a chance against them

Pilot/gunner exp gain is a different issue. You, as a pilot not being able to get enough points does not negate a fact that libs are farming machines. Ask your gunner.

If several groups of AA Maxes can operate freely, then it means enemy has no real ground presence. In that case, yes, they are effective, because of sheer numbers. But when land is crawling with magriders and infantry I doubt your 4 AA Max squads could operate at all. Outnumbering enemy proves nothing.

No, I don't think I'm wrong. Ground AA is fine when you outnumber enemy aircraft 5 to 1, at the very least. Then it's fine. But you forget that enemy has ground forces too, and AA is not good against those.

Flak towers are EXP pinatas, I don't know why you consider them dangerous. ESF can tank and kill flak tower in front. And ground forces like to destroy them for easy EXP. You are being dishonest here.

While you understand how Lib is overpowered, I don't understand you saying "skilled gunner". That's just pure bs. These guns are notoriously easy to operate. Just aim and shoot. No recoil, no screen shaking e.t.c. What skill are you talking about? If anything, skill requirement should be incredibly high for how much power Libs bring.

About VOIP I agree. Guys on ground can point you to Sundies to farm.

I beg to differ. Did you just say, that ground vehicles ar not powerful? Like HE prowler farming spawn with vulcan or a simple HE lightning getting tons of kills by shooting at the general direction of spaw.
If libs will be gone - enjoy tank armies all over the place.

Well, you asked how to counter air - I answered. Tank column wilk obliterate maxes for sure, but then we are dealing with huge diference in numbers - in tge case Ive described we have 1 squad on the ground against several squads in the air/ground. In such case higher number count will win.
As to the point of ammount of maxes, required to take down a liberator. Here is the thing - to take down one liberator you need 4-5 maxes. But that group of maxes will not kill one liberator and vanish, they will clear whole enemy air space. It is suboptimal to land max teams against 1 liberator, it is optimal to use them against several air targets. In such case you will kill-scare away mor the 5 plsyers for sure with your group of 5 maxes.
This game is not easy, I've started pkaying at beta, but didn't see that many rocketpods at all. O spent all my time kn ground not really carung about the air. On the first day of release I've met my first scythe wing with rocketpods. They spawncamped a fair amount of kills from our squad, and I was really bugged as to what shall I do in such case. I haven't posted a nerf thread, but found a way to adapt and counter them. Same went to liberators. Main skill for the gamer is ability to adapt to current situation.
Sorry for the wall of text

/ do no support!

In all honesty, my experiences with camping liberators generally tells me that if you are being spawn camped by a liberator you have lost air superiority. The only way a liberator can sit and spam a spawn is if none of your ESFs are gunning it down, at that point you have already lost the base and may as well just leave somewhere else because Air is what wins in this game currently :/ I think the issue isn't so much that Liberators are too strong, granted they are mega strong, but with a cost. The issue is that all the bases are really poorly built, thought out, and designed in such a way as to purposefully screw infantry over at every single possible turn. Bases need to be larger, with more rooftops and better positioned spawning such as from the center of the building rather than an outpost. They should be forced to come in and take the base not sit outside and stop you from walking out of spawn so they can just casually capture something.

I'm beginning to wonder how Higby managed to advance to creative director or whatever he is because the man wouldn't know balance if it hit him around the head.

This is what is supposed to happen.

It won't happen, even with a mission system in place, so long as it continues to be so lucrative for ESF's to be in lower airspace farming ground targets.

It shouldn't even take a call for help for ESF's to be up there attacking and protecting Liberators. Until the ESF stops being the soloists wet dream it will continue to be this way. Until there is something ground based that really genuinely threatens low flying ESF's with actual destruction we will be stuck in this rut.

ESF's don't need to specialise which automatically makes them the defacto weapon for soloists to spawn. They can easily outlive their timer and resources are so incidental that they might as well be removed from the game for all the difference they make.

The easiest place for ESF's to get kills is down on the ground. They too cheap to spawn, too easy to outlast their timer, and too good at killing everything else in the game that doesn'y fly. They need to be forced into a specialised role, which is a Lib killer/protector as was stated during beta.

For those fliers that say that they will quickly run out of Libs to kill so they'll just come back down into lower airspace looking for targets, what about those swarms of enemy ESF's that most of you conveniently ignore in favour of easier kills? What about actually getting out of your ESF once in a while? There isn't anything else in that game that you can sit in all day with a guaranteed conveyor belt of targets to keep you occupied. Why should the ESF be any different?

The fact that you can have an ESF available for hours on end is no small part of the problem. ESF's don't die frequently enough for timers and resources to even remotely matter. If there were genuine threats to those resource pools and timers from things on the ground, a lot of fliers would have to think a lot harder about whether the risk is worth it.

This will always happen in a game like this when low risk high reward is offered to you on a plate. The dev's need to stop ***** footing around with this problem and actually get on and solve it. If it means toning down their favourite toy, then so be it. They can't just make the game that they want to play. Not if they want the game to have decent populations and a relatively happy community.

Just add a shield on the top of every spawn room that allow people to fire through it and the problem with libs and spawncamping will be almost over. Almost because libs can still stay at 800 m and spam bombs.

But once again, remember that devs said that they enjoy the game. It means that they play air, and they are not gonna to nerf it.
Also, when you see the video of tobuscus, it starts in a lib. I didn't watch the rest as for me this phreak-like guy is the opposite of the vanu-style but i get it : if you want to enjoy the game pick air and farm. Yeah, it's an hack'n'slash game, but "mobs" are players who are trying to enjoy the game.
Give us a damn place with no air and all of these pilots will maybe agree that something need to be done.

I already said in another thread - base design is entirely different issue. It is not problem with any given vehicle, the problem is entire design.
I would like to see walls around outposts that stop vehicles from rolling in and a shield buble around the base to prevent air bombing it. In such case infantry shall infiltrate such base and take down the shield to allow vehicle support. That will make the game much more fun.

Exactly the point.

You can see what the dev's are trying to do here. They just need to try harder and be more decisive with their balance changes. It's become clear that GU1 was a non event when it comes to A2G balance.

The Liberator should be powerful. It takes 3 players to be offensively and defensively optimal. That for me right there is teamwork.

The other thing that needs to change is player mentatility. On the one hand you have some fliers claiming that it's right that 2-3 people on the ground should have to work together to counter an ESF. The same people are also complaining that Libs are too tough because it takes 2-3 ESF's to take out a fully manned Liberator.

You can't have it both ways.

You mean that it's not possible to nerf to hell the rocket pod and buf "to heaven" the A2A ? Strange, i thought it was 2 different weapons.

Max takes 3 people, a player to ride the max, a medic to revive it when it dies, and a engineer to repair it, yet its no where near as powerfull and still takes resources and has a timer as the lib

Tanks take 3 people, One riding, one on secondary gun, and one engineer to repair it from all the dumbfire rockets/mines/infantry that Air doesnt have to worry about because they can stay at flight ceiling all day and only have to worry about other air

That logic just doesnt fly, Libs are to powerfull on their own and unkillable with support, they can always just retreat to sky ceiling or behind a mountain if attacked by anything on ground, ground forces have no such place to hide from air when out in the open, Libs should be the most vulnerable thing in the game with no air support, in real wars bombers got murdered unless supported by large columns of air, they are too strong indiviudually as is